420hc Toughness

Mister Coffee said:
If a knife can be bent into a curved shape and then, when the pressure is taken off, regain its perfectly straight form, is that a sign of the knife's "toughness"? Serious question. I'm trying to understand what is meant by the word "toughness."

Note: On Preparedmind101, Chris Tanner baton-ed an LT Wright knife into a log with a knot in it. The blade bent into a curved shape around the knot. When the knife was freed from the log, it regained its normal shape.
Click to expand...


toughness as we tend to use it, is the steels ability to absorb energy and deform before breaking. im not using an exact defintion but you can find one with a Google search. I've seen cold steel bend knives to extreme angles and they return to form, on many different steels. proper heat treatment is a crucial part of that. anyways back on your question....

Dr. Larrins article discusses toughness in detail, worth the entire read.
 
Last edited:
Honestly if 420hc was called something else and was fresh marketed today as 3v tuff, stainless, 1095 edge retention and half the cost of 3v. People would be all over it with the bushcraft craze. They just don't know it already exist now. Before I saw the chart I honestly though 420hc was significantly less durable than 1095. Never imagined it was the other way around.
 
My thinking is similar to jb , I like my edc folders to have great edge holding and I’ll give up some toughness for keeping a good edge for just cutting.

On the other hand, I like my fixed blades to have toughness and I’ll give up some edge holding for a good tough blade and Bucks 420hc fits this very well. And I’d rather have stainless.

As far as other brands that use 420hc I don’t have much experience or knowledge except my Leatherman Wave . It has been chippy but I tend to use it for scraping and dirty work I know is gonna be rough on the edge so I can’t really use it for comparison for edge holding in cutting. All I know is my Bucks that have 420hc both fixed and folders have held up very well and no complaints.
 
Two sisters from different mothers :) Seriously, as a user I feel like the main difference is the hollow grind + guard vs. the choil. Certainly not the steel.

i-pQ4KCzg-X3.jpg
 
Last edited:
Toughness? Just go back a few years and watch what this guy did to Buck's 420HC. 😆


There are several parts to this video. Search "Buck Nighthawk destruction" on YouTube to see them all.

Truth told, I was disappointed that someone would think that a knife should be treated that way but, seriously surprised at the beating that knife took.
 
I've always held 420hc in high regard. Probably in part because most of the experience I've had with it was in association with the name Buck. I've had a few other knives with it, Gerber and Leatherman in particular, and I could tell a difference between them and the Bucks, but it's always been one of my favorite steels.
I enjoy sharpening so I don't mind the mediocre edge retention. I knew it was really tough because I've put in the hours abusing the knives.lol. We were all kids once right?
Now, suddenly, I'm kind of curious as to what's really true. This thread seems to challenging alot of what I've read elsewhere. In the past couple years or so, cpm-3v has become one of my most favorite steels. Mostly because I've been given the idea that as compared to, 420hc, it would be harder, tougher, stonger, and better edge retention, and the major trade offs were that the 3v would be about half as corrosion resistant, harder to sharpen and more expensive. I can deal with those trades within reason.
I only have a couple knives made of the cpm-3v, but they have performed as expected. I beat the snot out of my 3v Bark River Bravo 1 a few weekends ago. I batoned it through two large knots only about 3" apart in a piece of firewood almost the full diameter of the blade length just because I wanted to use the knife and see if it could. It never even flexed. I used that knife from feather sticks to splitting small logs. I used that knife mercilessly for most of that day and it barely dulled. The only damage I could see was where I hit a rock by accident and a tiny bit of edge rolled. That was abuse, and my fault.
Anyway, my points are,
1) I love 420hc, Bucks in particular, and
2) Have I been misled by the marketing of the 3v? I'm not unhappy with the 420hc, but I just wanted the 3v to be that much better.
 
Last edited:
Shrub said:
I've always held 420hc in high regard. Probably in part because most of the experience I've had with it was in association with the name Buck. I've had a few other knives with it, Gerber and Leatherman in particular, and I could tell a difference between them and the Bucks, but it's always been one of my favorite steels.
I enjoy sharpening so I don't mind the mediocre edge retention. I knew it was really tough because I've put in the hours abusing the knives.lol. We were all kids once right?
Now, suddenly, I'm kind of curious as to what's really true. This thread seems to challenging alot of what I've read elsewhere. In the past couple years or so, cpm-3v has become one of my most favorite steels. Mostly because I've been given the idea that as compared to, 420hc, it would be harder, tougher, stonger, and better edge retention, and the major trade offs were that the 3v would be about half as corrosion resistant, harder to sharpen and more expensive. I can deal with those trades within reason.
I only have a couple knives made of the cpm-3v, but they have performed as expected. I beat the snot out of my 3v Bark River Bravo 1 a few weekends ago. I batoned it through two large knots only about 3" apart in a piece of firewood almost the full diameter of the blade length just because I wanted to use the knife and see if it could. It never even flexed. I used that knife from feather sticks to splitting small logs. I used that knife mercilessly for most of that day and it barely dulled. The only damage I could see was where I hit a rock by accident and a tiny bit of edge rolled. That was abuse, and my fault.
Anyway, my points are,
1) I love 420hc, Bucks in particular, and
2) Have I been misled by the marketing of the 3v? I'm not unhappy with the 420hc, but I just wanted the 3v to be that much better.
Click to expand...

At 58rc 420hc and 3v have similar toughness, 3v will have much better edge retention, and 420hc will have much better corrosion resistance.

The thing is, you’re not often going to see 3v run that soft because it’s capable of achieving much higher hardness over 420hc…. That extra hardness does reduce toughness, but it greatly increases strength, as well as further increasing edge retention.

3v has a phenomenal balance of strength, toughness, and edge retention for a knife you are going to beat on.
 
Last edited:
Fixall said:
At 58rc 420hc and 3v have similar toughness, 3v will have much better edge retention, and 420hc will have much better corrosion resistance.

The thing is, you’re not often going to see 3v run that soft because it’s capable of achieving much higher hardness over 420hc…. That extra hardness does reduce toughness, but it greatly increases strength, as well is further increasing edge retention.

3v has a phenomenal balance of strength, toughness, and edge retention for a knife you are going to beat on.
Click to expand...
yep this...^
 
Hardness sometimes isnt hard to figure out. Right on the back of this 2005 still in the clammie, says RC 58.
And yeah, says 420HC.
Just sayin..
 
As others have said, Buck's heat treat and edge geometry make a huge difference, and puts Buck on top.

Buck's 420HC is plenty "tough" and holds an edge long enough for my needs.

I personally like Buck's 4240HC over Case's "True Sharp" 420HC.

I don't expect any knife to hold an edge forever. Sharpening goes with the territory, no matter what the blade is made of.

I'd rather have a blade that is easy to sharpen without diamond plates or SiC stones, that I (probably) won't have with me out in the field.
An advantage of 1095/440A/420HC (with proper heat treat):
If necessary, you can sharpen with a smooth brook/creek/crick/river pebble/rock.
Also, they are generally not prone to chipping or breaking when used for knife tasks.
The exceptionally rare rolled edge can be straightened by stropping or with a butcher's steel.
A dry leather belt or leather shoe/boot upper, or possibly a piece of Oak or Hickory, is sufficient for stropping.
 
Fwiw ,Bucks 420hc is my favorite rough use blade steel because it’s really tough, very good corrosion resistance, is more affordable, edge retention is better than most other low cost steel, can be easily sharpened and it can take a lot of hard use. It’s what I carry in my pickup emergency/camping gear box. I don’t have to worry about it and it’s ready to use.
Over the years I’ve tried some other brands and they fell short on performance. I believe Buck has the very best 420 grade blade steel out there and even better than some of the higher grades as far as toughness and all around use.
Yes I have my super steel edc knives and pro versions for the more specific tasks but for my survival emergency gear I want what is best for all around rough use and Bucks 420hc gets the nod.
 
Not a knife or steel expert, but am an outdoorsman, a few years ago I took a Buck Mesa out for a camping trip specifically to use it and use it hard for the whole trip to see how it would work and hold up. And I mean I banged on it.

Only issue: Did get dulled some, especially from me using the blade side to shave magnesium and also to strike the flint. This issue was basically completely offset by how easy it was to re-sharpen. About 60 seconds with a Lansky quick-fix. Wood didn't seem to faze it at all, and it was nice on the rafting part of the trip to be able to wear it all day and not have to worry about rust one bit. Good solid all-around blade, thumbs up for it and the steel and the Bos heat treat, I have about a dozen Buck knives now in 420HC.

ETA: Wife decided she really liked that particular blade after that trip, she carries it every day in the center console of her Tahoe now.
 
I was shocked at the toughness level of 420HC.

One of my favorite steels is AEBL..


I should not be surprised that 420HC, with its lower carbon content should perform so well in toughness. I was also surprised at where it lands on edge retention compared to other steels like 1095, 52100, 5160, etc, etc...

I very much enjoy how laser sharp I can easily get Bucks 420HC. (This is also one of the reasons I really enjoy AEBL, and steels like 10XX, 5160, 52100, Sandvik, etc).
 
Do a search for 420hc and you’ll find the comments comparing toughness vs. other steels run the gamut. One knife maker’s site states that: “1095 steel triumphs easily over 420HC in any toughness and edge retention challenge but rust faster. Both steels are easy to sharpen, but 1095 is tougher.”. Toughness and edge holding claims completely contradicted by Larrin. Makes you wonder where they get their information from, how much mis-information is out there and how much is simply opinion repeated so many times it eventually gets treated as fact.
 
Most information is anecdotal based on their own personal testing but often phrased with authority and usually not a full picture. I don't doubt what happened in their testing what I doubt is their testing methodology and who comparable the two items really were. We know how much a couple points in a HT mean and how much edge geometry mean. For an extreme example I wouldn't be surprised if with the right HT and Edge Geometry on 1095 and the wrong HT and Edge geometry on 3V you could make 3V look inferior to 1095.
 
afishhunter said:
As others have said, Buck's heat treat and edge geometry make a huge difference, and puts Buck on top.
Click to expand...
afishhunter said:
I'd rather have a blade that is easy to sharpen without diamond plates or SiC stones, that I (probably) won't have with me out in the field.
An advantage of 1095/440A/420HC (with proper heat treat):
If necessary, you can sharpen with a smooth brook/creek/crick/river pebble/rock.
Also, they are generally not prone to chipping or breaking when used for knife tasks.
The exceptionally rare rolled edge can be straightened by stropping or with a butcher's steel.
A dry leather belt or leather shoe/boot upper, or possibly a piece of Oak or Hickory, is sufficient for stropping.
Click to expand...


Yes. This is why I really like and prefer BUCKs 420HC and my 1095s for where I live and play.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top