420hc Toughness

[deadzonepatrol]

But if 420HC is so tough, what I don't get is why they don't make all big knives or swords out of that steel. According to those charts referenced above, 420HC is almost as tough as 5160 or 3V, maybe tougher at some hardness levels. Does 420HC test at 40 ft/lbs @ Rc58 for other testers using the same sample specifications? Because if those test results can be duplicated by others, why not use 420HC in swords? Perhaps there are other issues involved that make its use in swords undesirable?

 

[kobold]

But if 420HC is so tough, what I don't get is why they don't make all big knives or swords out of that steel. According to those charts referenced above, 420HC is almost as tough as 5160 or 3V, maybe tougher at some hardness levels. Does 420HC test at 40 ft/lbs @ Rc58 for other testers using the same sample specifications? Because if those test results can be duplicated by others, why not use 420HC in swords? Perhaps there are other issues involved that make its use in swords undesirable?

My newest chopper is a Condor Mini Duku in 420HC. Here it is with the original in 1075:

 

[rhino]

But if 420HC is so tough, what I don't get is why they don't make all big knives or swords out of that steel. According to those charts referenced above, 420HC is almost as tough as 5160 or 3V, maybe tougher at some hardness levels. Does 420HC test at 40 ft/lbs @ Rc58 for other testers using the same sample specifications? Because if those test results can be duplicated by others, why not use 420HC in swords? Perhaps there are other issues involved that make its use in swords undesirable?

My newest chopper is a Condor Mini Duku in 420HC. Here it is with the original in 1075:

Yeah, Condor makes good use of 420HC in their stainless versions of their chopping tools. The original Matt Graham Primitive Bush Knife (with the wood scales) was 420HC.

 

[Ruger 44 Redhawk]

I was very intrigued when I saw these toughness charts years back on 420HC. I was actually blown away. A "junk" steel that we are all supposed to hate? I know it's Buck's Bos heat treatment that makes it excel. I I have a 1995 650C Nighthawk and 1997 653n Nighthawk. The 650C is a hollow grind 425M steel and the 653n is not a hollow grind in 420HC. Upon sharpening them with fixed Lansky diamond stones (I am no pro at sharpening) it seems like I can put a sharper edge on the thicker 653n tanto? Wonder why that is? How does the 425M compare to 420HC? I know it's negligible with the addition of vanadium and molybdenum, but what gives?

 

[afishhunter]

For an extreme example I wouldn't be surprised if with the right HT and Edge Geometry on 1095 and the wrong HT and Edge geometry on 3V you could make 3V look inferior to 1095.

FACT: You can make the same statistics agree with both disagreeing agendas being promoted.
One of the many reasons you should take statististics and the resulting conclusion with a grain of salt. If available, I look at, and analyze the statistics used, and come to my own conclusion.

But if 420HC is so tough, what I don't get is why they don't make all big knives or swords out of that steel. According to those charts referenced above, 420HC is almost as tough as 5160 or 3V, maybe tougher at some hardness levels. Does 420HC test at 40 ft/lbs @ Rc58 for other testers using the same sample specifications? Because if those test results can be duplicated by others, why not use 420HC in swords? Perhaps there are other issues involved that make its use in swords undesirable?

Buck's 420HC performs better than others 420HC because of the heat treat and edge geometry.
Case's "True Sharp" stainless is 420HC.
Case runs theirs a couple points lower on the Rockwell scale, so it does not hold an edge as long. Case also sharpens to a steeper/more obtuse edge angle than Buck, which also affects the apparent sharpness in use. (how long the working edge lasts.)
Case's 420HC (in my experience) is more prone than Buck's to developing a wire edge when sharpening.

FWIW, the "razor edge" that "everyone" wants is gone after the first or second cut or sclice. Hene the working edge is more important. (IMHO)
While it sounds "backwards" a keener more acute edge has a longer lasting working edge.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I feel like this is very similar to how I've been droning on for a bit now on why 1095 isn't run any harder. Buck is pretty much an industry anomaly for offering low cost steel that has an actually decent heat treatment done to them. Literally any other knife I've had or still have in 420 doesn't hold an edge well at all. I have Leatherman and Gerber multitools that the blade has never been used because why even bother with them they go dull so fast. Unless this is a case of 420 is only tough when it's butter knife soft. Which if that's the case then once again why bother unless I need a cheap knife that I care little about grinding away trying to bring back the edge over and over.

 

[pukka]

I feel like this is very similar to how I've been droning on for a bit now on why 1095 isn't run any harder. Buck is pretty much an industry anomaly for offering low cost steel that has an actually decent heat treatment done to them. Literally any other knife I've had or still have in 420 doesn't hold an edge well at all. I have Leatherman and Gerber multitools that the blade has never been used because why even bother with them they go dull so fast. Unless this is a case of 420 is only tough when it's butter knife soft. Which if that's the case then once again why bother unless I need a cheap knife that I care little about grinding away trying to bring back the edge over and over.

Dr. Thomas' data shows 420HC at 57.5 ( Buck's target hrc) has toughness equivalent to; or greater than, CPM-3V when 3v is tempered to 59 hrc or higher.