420hc?

gull wing,

sounds like you're just looking for a premium steel for general purpose cutting, so for general purpose cutting you will do very well with 440c or 154cm. But if you are looking for a steel that'll cut til you drop you might go for s30v, but there are problems of chipping many people in the early days experienced when the steel first came out and it's a bear to sharpen.

for my experiences with 440c and 154cm, I have found these two to be the best all around stainless steel for light prying, cutting, easy sharpening, and good corrosion resistance. OOh... heat treat by a reputable company is the most important of all. For my 440c, i prefer Entrek (Beware of 440c made in China). and Spyderco, Benchmade, Microtech, etc., makes some good 154cm.
 
TOO many guys get all uptight about their blade steel.
Nothing wrong with 420HC unless you want to tell everyone your knife has S30V or something... It is used where good sharpenabity and edge retention are needed. Also corrosion resistance is a little better. Steels are always a trade off. Buck with a lifetime warranty is not going to want to use a blade steel that rusts easily... Right? LIFETIME warranty?? HMMMmm cant be all that bad they have been in business for over 100 years!
If you want to spend hundreds of dollars on a knife to say it has some special steel go ahead to each his own. I'll stick with my affordable (looked down upon) 420HC... Does it cut like a knife???
 
not saying there is anything wrong with 420hc, but it just doesn't hold an edge enough for my use. I'm a carpenter and I need a knife that can open boxes and packaging and pry wooden crates all day and a easy to clean blade on occasion to cut the salami for my sandwiches.;)
 
[s30v]

Nimravus Nut said:
... it's a bear to sharpen.
Click to expand...

The grindability is low however if you use a relief grind and a micro-bevel the effect of that aspect is eliminated. I can take a Spyderco Military in S30V, blunt it down to 5% of optimal, and then with less than 10 passes on a fine stone have it at optimal sharpness again.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

i have tried that method before, but then the edges become so fat after a while that i have to put the blade to a belt grinder to get the same edge bevel again. man i hate to have an accident and burn out the temper (done it before).:grumpy: So now i'm not so crazy about super steels anymore, just content with the old standbys.:)
 
I've only owned one knife that used 420HC, and it was a Mikov Auto Dagger. I was very dissapointed with the performance of the knife (it was $65, and I've gotten better knives for $20).

It's possible that the blade steel wasn't heat treated well or something, but the blade didn't hold an edge well at all, and I could never get it to be very sharp. I suppose that's great if that's what you're looking for in a blade, but I wasn't very pleased with it.
 
the only company that uses 420hc and have consistent good reviews is Buck. :) many other companies have poor QC on their 420's.
 
Yeah...I have yet to own a Buck. I've been thinking about getting a Buck Auto lately, but we'll see.
 
Nimravus Nut said:
...but then the edges become so fat after a while that i have to put the blade to a belt grinder to get the same edge bevel again.
Click to expand...


I know what you are saying about the high alloy steels. I recently tried to flatten the primaries on some S30V and ZDP-189 knives and even with a 1" belt sander this isn't productive. I use cheap 80 grit AO belts though, it may be faster on better quality belts. But like you said it is really easy to overheat blades when you are grinding < 0.010" of steel. The best option for a knife user is to have the primary regound by someone like Wilson or Krein which leaves the edge at < 0.005" thick. This means your relief grind will still be very narrow, and your secondary grind minimal.

The real problem are knives in such steels with obtuse and thick edges. This makes them very hard to sharpen and they are in general not suitable for such knives anyway. I also would not disagree with your assertion that you can find a better balance of properties in less extreme steels. In general the edge retention doesn grow as much as the grindability drops with extreme alloys, especially if the hardness stays the same. I have many modern steels, some of them in knives I like very much but some of my favorite knives are also in 1095, 420HC and similar steels. I can't imagine rejecting a well designed knife simply because of the steel. I would not be that upset if suddenly all I had to choose from was bandsaw blade steel. Run it full hard martensite for the light cutting knives and full bainite for the utility knives.

-Cliff
 
420 HC is a decent steel. I have several Schatt & Morgan slipjoints that use it, and they sharpen well and hold a great working edge. The steel must be well heat-treated.
Same with my Buck 110. That's the only Buck knife I'll ever use (don't like any of their other designs, really, and the only reason I'll use the 110 is because it's a classic that works). Heat treated well (if you get an Idaho stamped knife), and cuts just fine.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
In general the edge retention doesn grow as much as the grindability drops with extreme alloys, especially if the hardness stays the same.
-Cliff
Click to expand...

couldn't agree with you more. my experiences with stainless steels is that they loose their razor sharp edge quickly but maintains a utility edge for a long time.
 
Unfortunately the stainless market in the US tends to be dominated by the really coarse carbide steels, not all of them are like that. Hopefully some makers/manufacturers will realize that it might be useful to offer stainless steels with similar properties to the tool steels that a lot of people prefer.

-Cliff
 
420HC as heat treated by Buck, anyway, is not bad at all -- takes a wicked sharp edge and holds it well enough, and it's easy to resharpen. I plan to replace the 420H blade on my venerable 100 with BG-42 once it's worn down enough, but that may take some time. The steel in my SAK isn't super steel, but it's much the same: fine grained, easy to resharpen, and holds a decent edge for daily purposes.
 
Currently attempting to change my custom Buck 110 order from 420HC to BG 42. I'm not sure I can, so I'm happy to hear what you guys have to say abotu Buck 420HC.
 
I'm not generally a fan of stainless steels at all, but one of the two types I have are multiple copies of the Buck 110. In a glove compartment or other long-term storage I don't worry about them much and in my experience, the blade will perform decently and resharpen easily. Just don't abuse them laterally.

In my book Buck's 420HC is up to snuff at the price point demanded. Were I to get one from the custom shop, I'd spring for the BG-42 version in brass and koa wood.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
420HC is significantly inferior in regards to wear resistance to those steels and also has a lower maximum and usual ran hardness. However it is much tougher, more ductile, easier to grind, has greater edge stability, and more corrosion resistance that those steels. It is a superior steel for some knives and an inferior steel for others, as in general are most steels. 420HC for example is used by Phil Wilson for his custom kitchen cutlery. These really are not low end or inferior knives.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

Everything said.
I have a fixed blade Buck/Strider 890SPX (STRIDER ML) in 420HC heat treated by P. Bos. I can imagine the same knife in S30V (for example, a Strider custom). I would always choose a 420HC version if I really needed a combat/SD/field/survival knife.
Because "it is much tougher, more ductile, easier to grind, has greater edge stability, and more corrosion resistance that those steels", as Cliff said.
I would like Cliff made the same (mal)treatment with STRIDER ML and any similar S30V Strider custom, as he did with SOG's BG-42 Rotondo.

Cliff?

Saying that, I own a number of smaller knives - mostly folders - in exotic/premium steels, such as SGPS, ZDP-189, BG-42, S30V, S60V, VG-10, M2, ATS-34, etc.
It makes a lot of sense to use premium steels in smaller knives. Therefore, I would like to have a Buck's 110 in BG-42. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to get her in Europe.

Franco
 
Still weird that in '07 buck is releasing $500 limited run knives, beautiful handles, but they have 420hc. Not really sure why. Decent steel but not really up to par.
 
Franco G said:
I would like Cliff made the same (mal)treatment with STRIDER ML and any similar S30V Strider custom, as he did with SOG's BG-42 Rotondo.
Click to expand...

I have used a Green Beret (S30V), low and brittle failure under impacts, edge was damaged easily on light work. It is not a tough steel, similar to other high carbide stainless like ATS-34. If you want durability in a stainless then you go for the same two main critical properties as you would in a non-stainless; low carbon content in austenite (<0.6%) and low carbide volume (~%1).

-Cliff
 
I have a couple Bucks (a 473 Fixed Blade and a 110 Folder) that have 420 HC blades. Bothe have excellent edges on them. I have carried the 473 into the woods and in adverse conditions and not had any rust. In fact, it followed me out into the rain on Friday, and I battoned wood with it. After that, it sat for a couple days without adverse affects. As long as you don't use your knives unnecsarily hard, or pay a high-end price, I would not be too upset buy 420 HC. It's not supersteel, but it'll get the job done.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top