440 Question

[Mike Kerins]

Joes text:
New stock. Left over from the 119 75th set. I made them with ironwood and bone end spacers.

It’s pretty obvious that is what he did if you look at the knife.

 

[Mike Kerins]

If you look at the groove on the newer 440C blade compared to a newer blade, it’s not longer but is a different shape.

 

[Der Verminator]

So we still don't have an answer as to how the old style Fuller with the more pointed ends came to be on a new knife.

Fascinating.

Maybe Joe will text us the answer.

 

[DeSotoSky]

Did Buck recently start replicating the old Fuller?
Wouldn't that take some new tooling?

Well, the 75th 440c 119 is supposed to be a "reproduction".
The fullers look to be machined with a ball nosed endmill.
I change sizes on my mill with a 13/16" wrench on the drawbar.
Not a big deal at all to change the groove size. It's a cutter change, not really retooling.
I bet it's all done by computer anyways, including the cutter change.

 

[DOGPOUND77]

joe builds knives--he does not waste his time on this fascinating hijack on every thread....

 

[STEELHEADBULLY]

I think Vorpal just wanted the Bully to call him an asshole again.

 

[DOGPOUND77]

haha!!!!! let it RAIN !!!!!!!

 

[J Hubbard]

Well, the 75th 440c 119 is supposed to be a "reproduction".
The fullers look to be machined with a ball nosed endmill.
I change sizes on my mill with a 13/16" wrench on the drawbar.
Not a big deal at all to change the groove size. It's a cutter change, not really retooling.
I bet it's all done by computer anyways, including the cutter change.

This is correct.
The old blood grooves were made with a 1/4" sanding belt set up which we don't have any more.

 

[JOE NOWICKI]

I think DeSotoSky is right, all done by computer, just have to set the machine to raise toward the end of the fuller and it will look like a point. CNC machines are amazing.

 

[Der Verminator]

I think DeSotoSky is right, all done by computer, just have to set the machine to raise toward the end of the fuller and it will look like a point. CNC machines are amazing.

Well, then..........(applause) we have an answer. If the computer can now replicate the artfully pointed ends of the Fuller as was done in the days of old--all is well. I just wish they'd do it more often and it's too bad they couldn't have had the capability from the get go in 2005.

Thanks to DeSoto and Joe (NOWICKI). Questions answered sans bellicosity. Well done.

 

[Makael]

More pics. The blade details from new 440 to old 440 is pretty clear. The two newer 440 blades are quite stout and a 1/2 longer overall.
One spin on pommel and one barrel nut was a plus and cool as can be.

I need to make some knife rolls.

 

[tiguy7]

View attachment 1219363 This 120 was a build out supposedly using a new old stock 440C blade. It was was put together by Leroy and Heath and was sold to me (as new) at the 2008 BCCI Reunion Swap Meet. The custom handle is Lignam Vitae. So my question is: is this the old style sanded blood groove or the new style ball end mill blood groove?

 

[Der Verminator]

If it was truly new old stock then it has to be the old style Fuller (groove) done the old way.

It is easily recognized by the pleasing and artful lines of said Fuller as compared to the straight and blunt ended lines of more recent Fullers.

It has been posted and discussed here that the old style Fuller can be and is currently replicated (at least on some blades) by computer guided equipment.

But yours is clearly the old style.

Makael has pictures just above that show examples of the new and old styles quite clearly.

Thanks, Mak.

 

[JOE NOWICKI]

Computer numerical control (CNC) machines were in operation in 2000 when I went to a machine show but they were very expensive. If the fuller is very proportionally straight it was made by a machine. Thanks for the pick me up Der Verminator I was just agreeing with DeSotoSky.

 

[Der Verminator]

Yes, some of the early Idaho Buck 120 Fuller (grooves) were actually sort of laughable (although the annoyance of sending them back was not funny).

They'd be too narrow and many sported an ugly round dot at the end of the groove where the operator apparently let the operating end linger too long.

I'm glad things have gotten better. I wonder when the change took place.

Maybe Mr. Hubbard knows.

 

[DeSotoSky]

Resetting to the original post... That 909 is a neat knife Makael and I think a bargain at the price. I was thinking about pulling the trigger on it myself but you made my decision for me... ha ha A decision by indecision. Enjoy it.

 

[Makael]

Resetting to the original post... That 909 is a neat knife Makael and I think a bargain at the price. I was thinking about pulling the trigger on it myself but you made my decision for me... ha ha A decision by indecision. Enjoy it.

I'll post some more pictures, should be here today

 

[Makael]

Resetting to the original post... That 909 is a neat knife Makael and I think a bargain at the price. I was thinking about pulling the trigger on it myself but you made my decision for me... ha ha A decision by indecision. Enjoy it.

Looks like he has 4 Buck 903s. I think he will have me build a couple sheaths.

 

[JOE NOWICKI]

There was a show "Forged In Fire" that was on T.V. they made a fuller when the knife was red hot and put between a curved piece of steel with two pieces of steel to make the fuller and put into a press and came down with the ram with tons of pressure that left a fuller on each side. There were a lot of things on that show that did not follow proper procedures of heat treating and quenching and drawing the hardened steel. Sorry off topic!

 

[riversidedep]

After reading through this thread, I kinda want a groove groove knife.