440A vs. 420HC

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Thirteenth Star said:
Why is it that 420HC receives a fair amount of praise on this website, while 440A is often looked at with disdain and contempt?
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Buck seems to maximize the potential of 420HC while most people that use 440A seem to be bargain basement knives. (I'm not sure why Buck doesn't use a better steel.)
 
it's been discussed on hundreds of threads here: buck does an excellent bos heat treatment on 420hc, and it performs quite well

use one on a daily basis and you'll see...
if you really need top tier edge retention, they offer s30v and s35vn in many models
 
bdmicarta said:
Buck seems to maximize the potential of 420HC while most people that use 440A seem to be bargain basement knives. (I'm not sure why Buck doesn't use a better steel.)
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Steels don't come in "bad, good, best" categories. For example, most any other stainless would have substantially less toughness than 420HC, whether 154CM, S30V, M390, etc.
 
bdmicarta said:
Buck seems to maximize the potential of 420HC while most people that use 440A seem to be bargain basement knives. (I'm not sure why Buck doesn't use a better steel.)
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I have Buck 110's with S30V and CPM154, and a 112 with D2.
Admittedly the latter two are SK Blades SFO's. Copper & Clad have several SFO's with 5160 carbon steel.

S30V is available on the 110, 112, 113, and 119 (among others) in the Custom Shop. I believe all the Cabala's "Alaskan Guide" knives are S30V. Buck's "Pro" series 110 and 112 have S30V.
I don't follow the "modern" OHO Buck models, so I have no idea which have 420HC; S30-V; S35V or "higher" blades.

The 420HC works just fine for the vast majority of Buck's customers, in town, and/or out in the boonies/sticks, else Buck would use a different standard blade steel.
I know from experience, my 420HC 110 will gut and peel 3 whitetail deer before the edge needs (dry) stropped. (I haven't had a chance to use it for such yet, but I'm guessing my white handle 420C 877 fixed blade will gut and peel just as many.)
I've never felt "under knifed" or wished I had a different knife when out in the boonies/sticks with a 420HC Buck ... or a 1095 carbon steel Old Timer 7OT, Western L66, or Old Hickory, for that matter.
I'm pretty sure they did everything "bushcraft" I needed a knife for, since I haven't lost any parts such as fingers, toes, ears, life, etc. I was born with. :D

As for "... use 440A seem to be Bargain Basement knives."
My Rough Rider/Rough Ryder, Marbles, "Taylor Schrade" and "Taylor Schrade Hammer Brand" knives with 440A hold an edge just as long, if not a smidgen longer, as my pre-2000 "Schrade +" 7OT; 6OT; circa 1990's Camillus made Remington (not stamped "Schrade +" but nonetheless has stainless steel blades) and 1978-1986 Old Timer 858 (no "OT" in tang stamp") knives do.
I may be mistaken, but I don't think the Schrade USA family of brand knives were ever/are considered "Bargain Basement" knives, any more than Case was/is. "Budget Friendly", perhaps, but not "Bargain Basement.

Full Disclosure: Case knives were ... "rare" ... at best, in the area of East Central Iowa, where I "grew up". I don't recall any store, other than maybe Sears, that carried Case.
None of the hardware, tractor/farm supply, or sporting goods stores did, that I remember. Lots of the Schrade brands ,Utica, and Western, but not Case.

I figure to Case, we was just a bunch of "poor" and "stupid" farmers, on the "wrong side of the river", and not worth bothering with.

I don't remember anyone I knew in school, or after, who had a Case pocket or hunting knife. (Starting in 1st or 2nd grade, "everyone" was showing off their knife/knives during recess, and between classes, and in shop classes in Jr. High and High School ... especially those with a Buck 110, and the "rich kids" (actually, they had "rich" parents. The kids themselves might have gotten a bigger allowance, but were as "poor" as the rest of us kids.) that had a Puma lock back, Boker Tree Brand Barlow or stockman, or some other high end German or English brand.
Knives were also shown off at Cub Scout and Boy Scout meetings and camps, and at Sunday School, and Church Luncheons/BB-Q's, of course. :D
To be honest, I'd not heard of Case prior to joining BF.
 
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EngrSorenson said:
I’m surprised no one has invoked the Rough Ryder name with all this discussion of 440A... I know some folks love their RR’s. Maybe the RR following can chime in with their experience? I know afishhunter afishhunter has at least one RR- how do you like it?

i find personally that any reasonable steel is effective for my day-to-day, but I’m not processing animals or whittling nails either.
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I've owned a couple RR's. Decent knives, for sure. The steel can take a good sharp edge. It won't keep that edge for long though. A gauge is, a RR might skin two squirrels before really losing that sharp edge.
So assuming you aren't skinning a sack full of squirrels, it's a decent edc steel, haha.
 
afishhunter said:
I have Buck 110's with S30V and CPM154, and a 112 with D2.
Admittedly the latter two are SK Blades SFO's. Copper & Clad have several SFO's with 5160 carbon steel.

S30V is available on the 110, 112, 113, and 119 (among others) in the Custom Shop. I believe all the Cabala's "Alaskan Guide" knives are S30V. Buck's "Pro" series 110 and 112 have S30V.
I don't follow the "modern" OHO Buck models, so I have no idea which have 420HC; S30-V; S35V or "higher" blades.

The 420HC works just fine for the vast majority of Buck's customers, in town, and/or out in the boonies/sticks, else Buck would use a different standard blade steel.
I know from experience, my 420HC 110 will gut and peel 3 whitetail deer before the edge needs (dry) stropped. (I haven't had a chance to use it for such yet, but I'm guessing my white handle 420C 877 fixed blade will gut and peel just as many.)
I've never felt "under knifed" or wished I had a different knife when out in the boonies/sticks with a 420HC Buck ... or a 1095 carbon steel Old Timer 7OT, Western L66, or Old Hickory, for that matter.
I'm pretty sure they did everything "bushcraft" I needed a knife for, since I haven't lost any parts such as fingers, toes, ears, life, etc. I was born with. :D

As for "... use 440A seem to be Bargain Basement knives."
My Rough Rider/Rough Ryder, Marbles, "Taylor Schrade" and "Taylor Schrade Hammer Brand" knives with 440A hold an edge just as long, if not a smidgen longer, as my pre-2000 "Schrade +" 7OT; 6OT; circa 1990's Camillus made Remington (not stamped "Schrade +" but nonetheless has stainless steel blades) and 1978-1986 Old Timer 858 (no "OT" in tang stamp") knives do.
I may be mistaken, but I don't think the Schrade USA family of brand knives were ever/are considered "Bargain Basement" knives, any more than Case was/is. "Budget Friendly", perhaps, but not "Bargain Basement.

Full Disclosure: Case knives were ... "rare" ... at best, in the area of East Central Iowa, where I "grew up". I don't recall any store, other than maybe Sears, that carried Case.
None of the hardware, tractor/farm supply, or sporting goods stores did, that I remember. Lots of the Schrade brands ,Utica, and Western, but not Case.

I figure to Case, we was just a bunch of "poor" and "stupid" farmers, on the "wrong side of the river", and not worth bothering with.

I don't remember anyone I knew in school, or after, who had a Case pocket or hunting knife. (Starting in 1st or 2nd grade, "everyone" was showing off their knife/knives during recess, and between classes, and in shop classes in Jr. High and High School ... especially those with a Buck 110, and the "rich kids" (actually, they had "rich" parents. The kids themselves might have gotten a bigger allowance, but were as "poor" as the rest of us kids.) that had a Puma lock back, Boker Tree Brand Barlow or stockman, or some other high end German or English brand.
Knives were also shown off at Cub Scout and Boy Scout meetings and camps, and at Sunday School, and Church Luncheons/BB-Q's, of course. :D
To be honest, I'd not heard of Case prior to joining BF.
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I loved this post. It really took me back in time as you mentioned how kids used to show off their knives during recess in 1 and 2nd grade and in shop class later on. In high school I was one of the "rich" kids with a solingen knife because my parents forced me to go back to Austria during summer visits. I remember the other kids with american knives just had blank coveting stares as they examined my European knives.

Cool post. You should write more!
 
colin.p said:
Whenever I see these old threads I get a kick out of clicking on usernames that I don't recognize and see when they posted last. Some haven't posted for years, kind of slightly wonder where they went..
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Lots of us still hanging around ;)
I prefer to follow the old adage - "better to stay silent & let people think you're an idiot than to open your mouth & remove all doubt" :D Hence the somewhat low post count..
 
Guys, it's a Zombie Thread, first started 15 years ago.

It got resurrected though, and has done on 2 more pages since June this year.

These days, 440A is only better than 420J2 and it's probably not as good as Buck's 420HC.
 
EngrSorenson said:
I’m surprised no one has invoked the Rough Ryder name with all this discussion of 440A... I know some folks love their RR’s. Maybe the RR following can chime in with their experience? I know afishhunter afishhunter has at least one RR- how do you like it?

i find personally that any reasonable steel is effective for my day-to-day, but I’m not processing animals or whittling nails either.
Click to expand...
I have several RR knives and I use them quite often, I whittle a lot and have never had a problem with them, they hold up really well. I have higher end knives as well, like Spyderco, We, Qsp's just to name a few and the RR's do just as good.
 
This was resurrected twice so I guess I can chime in. I swear by Buck’s 420HC. I could never get my USA LB7 to hold an edge. It might have been the grind. I put up with it anyway because the schrades were cheaper than a 110 back in the 1990s.
 
mlovett said:
Again.. aus-6 IS a european copy of 440-a,, aus-8 440-b, aus-10 is a 440-c equivelent. ats-34-154-cm virtual twins. only a few changes for machini ability. 440-a and 420are both too low in carbon content to effectively take a decent heat treat. Its done by cheating the steel. very similar to what was done in the olden days to make cheep cold rolled steel perform, In the old days it was case hardening. the modern method does the same thing. Hard outside soft interior. sharpen enough and you find the crap. Cheap is cheap Price wise and quality wise. You some times get what you pay for, sometimes not. Greed is running rampant in the knife manufacturing buisness, just like everywhere else. Crap sells. Just advertize well, and put a high price on. it. The kershaws, Gerbers are not the same knives they were before Peet's and Kershaws death. Period. M. Lovett :(
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I was just reading through this and reading this comment made me wanna comment, that AUS-6 is a Japanese steel. Ans AUS-8 is the one more similar to 440C, not AUS-10. Not quite sure what to make of the rest of the comment, when these essentials seem to be wrong already. 🤔
 
All of the Remington bullet knife reproductions made by Camillus (RIP), as well as Schrade+ on old USA Schrades (RIP) were 440A. They did a fine job on their heat treat, and those old knives will serve you well.

Nothing like continuing a twenty year old conversation, lol.
 
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