440C - To Buy or Not to Buy? A steel snob's dilemma

Custom is a good idea! Always.

I see no real downside to 440C, it's considerably less expensive than many other grades of steel. And as mentioned, properly heat-treated 440C is nothing to sneeze at. I've bought a number of knives that I liked, and didn't care what steel it was made from. I always ask, but it's not that important to me. I have multiple knives for almost any purpose, many handmade, a couple of customs. Lots of different steels, 1095, 0170-6C, 5160, 440A, 440C ATS-34, ZDP-189, VG-10, etc. And they all make good knives. In most cases, steel is the last thing that would be a deal-breaker for me.
 
wensynch said:
A mere $300 for a custom knife of your own design?? Who does that?

The scales alone I look at have been around $200 per pop.. and thats without a blade.

Who wouldnt go that route assuming knife is half decent? Well, more like better be good.


In OP scenario, I would wait till someone else is done with theirs.
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I make stuff at exactly that price point... This one is A2:

 
440C is IMO great, excellent steel,old and time tested by many famous knifemakers and manufacturers in USA (G.Hibben handmade stuff for example,also Randall Made Knives use its relative - 440B ) , here in Europe (Puma or Linder-Solingen),these knives ain't coming cheap made out of 440C.... Many people may mistakely think of this steel as cheap - mass produced cheap 420J steel used on bottom priced mass production knives usually sold on malls or flea markets....

I also asked experienced knifemakers what they think of 440C and got answer - it's en excellent steel and if heat treated well, it is one of the best steels out there to make a knife from.... It is not a modern super-steel with sky high price, but depend on maker, this steel can achieve superb quality that will stand it's ground in performance even against modern super steels.....
 
Riz! said:
What made you decide not to buy?

According to the website its cryo treated and run at 59-60 rockwell.
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The only reason i didnt purchase is because i dont need another knife that size, and logic overcome desire in this instance lol!
 
Riz! said:
Would you buy your ideal knife if the steel wasnt your ideal steel?

Riz
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No, I've done that a lot, and I've spent extra money on them, and when I'm done, the steel is STILL not what I really want.
 
In my experience edge geometry is more important than steel.
And to be honest I have feeling that 95% of steel snobs (me included) would not be able to tell difference between 440C and m390.
 
LOTS of people. There are too many knife makers out there. Now you will have to live with the fact than many will make a knife to your design as log as it is not ugly. But then again, some specialize in ugly. :D
wensynch said:
A mere $300 for a custom knife of your own design?? Who does that?

The scales alone I look at have been around $200 per pop.. and thats without a blade.

Who wouldnt go that route assuming knife is half decent? Well, more like better be good.


In OP scenario, I would wait till someone else is done with theirs.
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Until you tried to sharpen the knife. :D
powerslave said:
In my experience edge geometry is more important than steel.
And to be honest I have feeling that 95% of steel snobs (me included) would not be able to tell difference between 440C and m390.
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I'm generally fine with 1095 or 8cr13mov... so I'd be OK with 440c if it was the only option. I'd likely pay more for another steel if available, but certainly don't balk at the use of 440c.
 
Mr. OP, a number of guys would make a knife like that for you in 3V or other steels. I forged this little guy out of W2 back in 2008. I hank that I sold it for $250 back them when I was younger and dumber. :D now I wouldn not be inclined to sell it for $300 today because as you may be able to tell, it involved a fair bit of hand finishing work and a bit of tricky fitting of the buttcap, but you get the idea of what can be done for reasonable money.

get-attachment.aspx.jpg
 
Riz! said:
Fellow forumites and knife knuts...

I have gone through a huge evolution over the years and it is funny, I am coming full circle. From $25 knives to highend semi customs in exotic steels, I have bought them all and sold most of them too. I am to the point that I dont keep a knife that I wont use.

A couple of months ago, on a whim, I bought a lower cost folder and man I have been impressed. I caused me to really start looking at knives I normally would have written off. Basically I realized that the "high end exotic" materials mean less than I thought.

My favorite steel is CPM3V and I pretty much would like to see every knife ever made, made in 3V.
Recently I found a fixed blade design by a company I like... The knife meets all of my criteria except... It is 440C. Its a USA made, medium sized fixed blade knife in the style of an EK knives bowie. Typical soldiering knife. Even thought I am not a soldier I love this style of knife (Kabars, M9 bayonettes, randall styled knives, various clip point bowies). So if this knife was 3V it would be no question and Ide probably spend up to 300 for it and use the heck out of it. I am really close to pickng it up but want to know how you guys feel.

Would you buy your ideal knife if the steel wasnt your ideal steel? Also, how many folks like and use 440C without issues?

Riz
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The most serious steel test I have ever seen had 440C blow the doors off CPM3V in edge holding, and it did the same with everything else in fact... As far as I can determine, the test was in a 1998-1999 issue of "Tactical Knives", and all the tested blades were test mules specifically made for the test...

440C bested everything on manila rope by over 50%, except maybe D-2, which was still behind... And this included the first two CPM steels and INFI, which were not even that high...

In that test CPM3V was really second rate... I would avoid it. I've found S30V to be terrible as well. That being said, the worst blade I have ever seen was in 440C...

Gaston
 
wensynch said:
A mere $300 for a custom knife of your own design?? Who does that?

The scales alone I look at have been around $200 per pop.. and thats without a blade.

Who wouldnt go that route assuming knife is half decent? Well, more like better be good.


In OP scenario, I would wait till someone else is done with theirs.
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The last 2 custom fixed blades of my own design were under $250, a CPM-10V Bushcrafter, and a .275" thick 3V 7" blade
 
People have had 17 years to play with 3V since then. I seriously doubt that 440C would beat it now. I wonder if there was a container of liquid nitrogen or even dry ice and acetone or kerosene anywhere within 25 miles of that test shop. 99.9% of people who have used drollery heat treated 3V and 440C would chose 3V unless they had to have stainless. Likewise, if you are talking about T440V aka CPM S60V, it must not have been HT'ed very well if 440C beat it. Most comparison charts have 3V somewhere between slightly less than 440C in abrasion restiance to being equal CPM 154. i suspect hay has to do with hardness. The high temperature temper factory recipe for 3V leaves it at 58Rc and when compared to 440C at 60, it is a tad less abrasions rstince I suspect. But when was the last time you see a 440C blade at 60 and a 3V one at 58, especially now that a number of folks are dong cryo straight out of the quench and going with the lower temper and higher hardness?
Gaston444 said:
The most serious steel test I have ever seen had 440C blow the doors off CPM3V in edge holding, and it did the same with everything else in fact... As far as I can determine, the test was in a 1998-1999 issue of "Tactical Knives", and all the tested blades were test mules specifically made for the test...

440C bested everything on manila rope by over 50%, except maybe D-2, which was still behind... And this included the first two CPM steels and INFI, which were not even that high...

In that test CPM3V was really second rate... I would avoid it. I've found S30V to be terrible as well. That being said, the worst blade I have ever seen was in 440C...

Gaston
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Esee makes the 4 and the Izula, both intended to be used hard, in 440C. If 440C is heat treated right, and it will take a higher hardness than is usually done, then it is an excellent steel. You can think of it as the parent of 154cm and VG-10, and other such steels. I have an old Buck in 440C that out performs a few of my super steels, so called, in edge retention.
 
wensynch said:
A mere $300 for a custom knife of your own design?? Who does that?

The scales alone I look at have been around $200 per pop.. and thats without a blade.

Who wouldnt go that route assuming knife is half decent? Well, more like better be good.


In OP scenario, I would wait till someone else is done with theirs.
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Are you freaking kidding me? TONS of makers do custom work for that price and under. I know I do...in fact...I don't think anything I've made has gone over that amount so far....maybe one or two knives but they were huge honking bowies with a near mirror hand polish and tooled leather sheaths.

Charlie Mike also already chimed in that he does. You're right in that most of the big name or full time makers can't afford to work that cheap. So the bragging rights might be a bit less on something commissioned under $300 in some people's eyes. But most of the part time/ hobbyist makers work under or near that pricerange.
 
jdm61 said:
Mr. OP, a number of guys would make a knife like that for you in 3V or other steels. I forged this little guy out of W2 back in 2008. I hank that I sold it for $250 back them when I was younger and dumber. :D now I wouldn not be inclined to sell it for $300 today because as you may be able to tell, it involved a fair bit of hand finishing work and a bit of tricky fitting of the buttcap, but you get the idea of what can be done for reasonable money.

View attachment 656501
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Thats beautiful!
 
Gaston444 said:
The most serious steel test I have ever seen had 440C blow the doors off CPM3V in edge holding, and it did the same with everything else in fact... As far as I can determine, the test was in a 1998-1999 issue of "Tactical Knives", and all the tested blades were test mules specifically made for the test...

440C bested everything on manila rope by over 50%, except maybe D-2, which was still behind... And this included the first two CPM steels and INFI, which were not even that high...

In that test CPM3V was really second rate... I would avoid it. I've found S30V to be terrible as well. That being said, the worst blade I have ever seen was in 440C...

Gaston
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Gaston, you keep on mentioning this test. Although I like 440C, I don't believe you and once again I would like you to provide this test on here or stop spewing your lies. The reason why I have a problem with this is because of the time frame. I was here in 1998(also the original KF and recKnives). Both cpm3V and INFI were very new and almost impossible to get and there is no way that anyone had been given test mules of either steel and certainly not INFI. But maybe I am wrong so either put up this test or stop spreading lies. Very simple.
 
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