4v, my experience with patina and corrosion in a Very wet environment.

[NJBillK]

I wanted to see what my 4V EDC would look like after it had some contact with a decent amount of raw protein as well as some spices and fresh herbs.

- Overall usage
A days work was about 18 cases of pork, which after two weeks was about 2,000' of pork butt. The chicken was boneless thighs and chicken trim that wasn't cut by me. Though total chicken was about 40' of poultry. Sausage spice; fennel, salt, pepper (and more), as well as fresh parsley and basil.

- Daily breakdown
The knife would sit wet for the morning, and I would wash the entire knife, dry the exterior of the handle and the blade prior to lunch. Once I was back at it, it would sit wet for the next 3-4 hours. As you can see, the blade has undergone only some slight changes in coloration, with only slight patina to speak of.

- Unspeakable Horrors lie beneath.
Under the slabs, which I wasn't able to dry, grew a common enemy, red rust and some Very slight pitting...

- Corrective Measures
After some elbow grease, a piece of leather, some mildly abrasive compound (steel car rim polishing compound) and about 10 minutes, I had some promising results.

- Conclusion
After the amount of moisture that the knife was subjected to, I was expecting worse on the blade, and under the slabs was just about expected. The knife is going back to work with me tomorrow, and it will stay on my hip for as long as I can manage.
I love the knife and the steel. Maintenance is easy, though I will be more thorough from here on out.
-----

But how did it cut/perform/retain the edge? How do you touch up the edge....or even need to?

Ah yes, I forgot to add those little details...

The edge held up nicely. A toothy working edge (DMT Medium) would last easily until lunch without significant noticed degradation and by the end of the day would have me stropping on cardboard or hitting a steel twice. A higher polished edge (DMT EEF), would last until lunch with needing a quick cardboard strop once or twice, then two or three times on a steel/cardboard to get me to the end of the day.

Don't take my comments as meaning the edge was "dull", it would still cut fine, working edge, but fine. I am just Very particular about my edges, so I tend to be a bit fanatical when it comes to feedback from my knifes edge.


Thanks Nathan, Jo, Mark, Lorien, @MikeKu825 and everyone that makes these knives a possibility.

Edit: added Mike to the list. Thanks for allowing me to get my grubby mitts on one!

Second edit: added edge retention info.

 

[adamlau]

So I take it that you work in the meat packing industry? Butcher at a supermarket? Whatever it is that you do, processing eighteen cases of pork sounds hardcore

 

[adamlau]

So what would you change about the EDC after a day of processing? Or will you need more time to determine the prospective drawbacks of the EDC with respect to your field of work?

 

[argyle1812]

Great review. Always love when people show the corrosion resistance of a knife.

 

[Gusbuster]

Sounds like some hardcore use. Thanks for sharing. Have you tried coating the steel under the handles. I use Marine Tuf Glide. I’ve also heard some people use wax.

 

[NJBillK]

Thanks for the feedback. I like being able to provide folks with such an extreme circumstance. If this helps someone realize that they don't have to worry as much about their own knife, then I am happy.

So I take it that you work in the meat packing industry? Butcher at a supermarket? Whatever it is that you do, processing eighteen cases of pork sounds hardcore

Thanks, I do work in the meat industry. I currently run a sausage production room in a commissary that supplies 31 stores.

So what would you change about the EDC after a day of processing? Or will you need more time to determine the prospective drawbacks of the EDC with respect to your field of work?

Sounds like some hardcore use. Thanks for sharing. Have you tried coating the steel under the handles. I use Marine Tuf Glide. I’ve also heard some people use wax.

The fix is easy, Grey Shower pan liner material. It is a vinyl sheet ~1/16" thick and sturdy stuff. With it being vinyl, it is waterproof, and slightly compressible, which will yield a watertight seal for the inside of the handle. To off set this added thickness, I have some 3/16" black canvas micarta. I am going to make some thinner slabs to keep it around factory thickness.

Though the vinyl may degrade and harden over time, making a new set of liners doesn't take much aside from a razor knife and a center punch.

 

[Lorien]

I keep meaning to test corrosion with my cpk protos but I'm way too OCD when it comes to maintaining things. Except my roof, I really should maintain that some more...............gotta go!

 

[jackal_727]

Anyone ever try clear rustoleum under the scales? I've always thought about trying it but wasn't sure of any possible adverse effects it might cause.

 

[NJBillK]

I keep meaning to test corrosion with my cpk protos but I'm way too OCD when it comes to maintaining things. Except my roof, I really should maintain that some more...............gotta go!

Well, put a knife in a bucket and catch the drips.
"Justify" your procrastination.


Or, an even better option:
Send me the knife and I will do what I did for my own personal EDC.
- No hard contact (metal or wood)
- Abrasive wear via double walled cardboard
- Non-reinforced banding material, pallet wrap, .007" plastic sheeting, and various other non-organoc materials are contacted
- Pork, Chicken, fresh herbs, salts and spices
- if you would like, personal use could also be factored in within the confines of a kitchen.

Let me know!

 

[pbubsy]

I've polished up with flitz then used beeswax under scales of carbon steel blades with good results.

 

[on_the_edge]

This may be more of a question for Nathan, but what about permanently attaching a set of scales with pins and epoxy, the whole 9 yards? I would think that would be resolve any and all corrosion issues under the scales, correct?

 

[NJBillK]

This may be more of a question for Nathan, but what about permanently attaching a set of scales with pins and epoxy, the whole 9 yards? I would think that would be resolve any and all corrosion issues under the scales, correct?

Via the Ask Nathan a Question thread, on page 61 (iirc).

Nathan, I've been curious what the main reason is you choose to use screws vs pins on your handles? I realize there are many possible reasons. Would be interested to hear your thoughts from a makers perspective.

Perhaps there's a misunderstanding here, my scales are pinned. The screw heads simply serve to hold the scales down, but the pins do the locating and shear loads. You can remove the screws and the scales remain in place and are difficult to remove.

The holes in the tang are created on a big CNC machining center. They're spotted, drilled undersized, circular interpolated CNC milled for location, then reamed to size with a carbide reamer. Their location and size are probably the most closely controlled for a fixed blade in the entire knife industry. Similar with the scales. So we need very little clearance with the pins, so we turn them down with only .001" nominal clearance. Everything is a very snug fit with 2-3 pins (depending on pattern). My scales are most definitely pinned.

Perhaps your question is why do I use removable screws on my pins rather than permanently pien pin heads? I like to utilize texture in my scale designs.

Grinding a pin flush to that spoils the texture.

It started with wanting the ability to grind the scales flush to the tang, remove the scales and paint or tumble the blade and return the scales with good return matchup. But when we invested in good CNC the precision we put into the process minimizes matchup issues to the point it is no longer required to match grind a set of scales to a tang to get a good fit. <-- this opens up the ability for folks to swap scales. That was never a driving factor (though the ability to remove scales to resharpen a bare blade is) but the end result is our scales are removable and replaceable, in a large part due to the removable fasteners (rather than piened heads) we use to hold the scales down to the tang. The high precision PINS allow that. They are pinned. There are knives on the market with removable scales where the threaded fasteners don't really constrain the scales, and they can shift around in hard use. Our work is not like that.

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

This may be more of a question for Nathan, but what about permanently attaching a set of scales with pins and epoxy, the whole 9 yards? I would think that would be resolve any and all corrosion issues under the scales, correct?

Yup. If a knife is being used in a commercial kitchen I like to bond the scales to the tang. I also like to use G10. If the OP would like to return his knife I would be happy to make the upgrades for him.

 

[on_the_edge]

Yup. If a knife is being used in a commercial kitchen I like to bond the scales to the tang. I also like to use G10. If the OP would like to return his knife I would be happy to make the upgrades for him.

That's a generous offer, Nathan.

 

[Packerrat]

I keep meaning to test corrosion with my cpk protos but I'm way too OCD when it comes to maintaining things. Except my roof, I really should maintain that some more...............gotta go!

Would love to hear your time proven OCD rituals/techniques for maintenance. I've grown up only using mineral oil, which has many limitations and can create some problems of its own, arguably originating from my own execution.

 

[NJBillK]

Yup. If a knife is being used in a commercial kitchen I like to bond the scales to the tang. I also like to use G10. If the OP would like to return his knife I would be happy to make the upgrades for him.

The extensive protein contact was more of an extreme push to see just how reactive the alloy was. Now that I have a baseline, I am much more comfortable knowing what to expect from it in my future life's usage.

As far as the pins, G10, epoxy, and your offer Nathan the Machinist , I appreciate it, but I am content with my regular usage and the micartas ability to withstand it and traction offered in the process.

I am going to be primarily using the knife as it was designed, a utility with the nod towards edge stability and retention. Cardboard, pallet wrap, banding mats, household and yard utility.
The liners that I proposed will be more of a safety net that allows me the stock feel of the handles whole offering some added protection from perspiration and environmental impact while hiking, fishing, and other alloy taxing activities.
-----
That being said, what Epoxy do/would you use?
I have grown rather fond of West Systems toughened epoxy. Though I do like the clarity of Acraglass for tinting. West Systems has a yellowish hue when dryed.

Thanks again!

 

[Shark01]

Based upon one of Lorien's other posts, I ordered so Autosol metal polish to try.

 

[High Standard]

I use clear nail polish on the steel below both handle slabs on all my knives that are prone to rust with fantastic results. Apply 2 light coats allowing the first to dry completely. (Providing your knife handles can be removed )

 

[DJC72]

Thanks for the thread! 4v really held up well considering the work environment.

 

[Lorien]

for winter trail work, I often use Boeshield on my blades to keep maintenance to a minimum