5 stitches in my finger - Extrema Ratio fail

Getting cut sucks. It certainly can make one "knife-shy".
Luck (or skill?) somehow got me through more than a few childhood years using my Cub Scout folder to cut anything and everything I could find. It never folded unexpectedly.

(borrowed pic. 'looks just like mine)
camillus-vintage-cub-scout-bsa-knife-ca2021fc0d93beb536e431cfaa6e5ffe.jpg
 
evilgreg said:
"there should never be any pressure on the blade spine anyway, so the test is silly".
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I've never understood that argument either. I was just using my CS Black Talon II while installing some coax cable under a desk in my bedroom this past week. I stood up to go get something, and BAM! I whacked the spine of the blade hard on the underside of the desk as I was getting up, so it definitely can happen. Would the lock have failed had it not been a Tri-Ad? Who knows? But I'm glad it was a knife with a Tri-Ad, I'll tell you that. :D
 
stabman said:
Yeah, I ani't buying that. ;)
My dad grew up in the time before locks; locks were showing up on folding knives in his late teen years.
People cut themselves.
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yeah well prople used to drink and drive and not wear a seat belt either and no one got hurt or killed. once they started making us stop drinking when we drove and wear seat belts all the trouble started.;)

the comments on liner locks being weak by design and frame locks being so much stronger cause of ones grip and by design etc is funny. well built and designed frame or liner locks are both very strong. problem is many aren't built designed well.
 
jbmonkey said:
yeah well prople used to drink and drive and not wear a seat belt either and no one got hurt or killed. once they started making us stop drinking when we drove and wear seat belts all the trouble started.;)

the comments on liner locks being weak by design and frame locks being so much stronger cause of ones grip and by design etc is funny. well built and designed frame or liner locks are both very strong. problem is many aren't built designed well.
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Agreed. This is a liner lock. I happily entrust my digits to it daily and would recommend anyone else do the same.

20170124_135834_zpscxwpa1gp.jpg
 
I was handling a ZT 0620 at Sportsman a week or so back. I gripped it in a saber grip, and while pinching the blade at the spine, I checked for side to side. While doing that, I applied a little negative pressure, and sure enough, the lock-bar slipped.

Even with a tight grip, anything that causes the knife to slide get twist in the direction the lockbar disengages in, will create a strong likelihood for the lock to disengage.

I've cut a finger open in much the same manner you have, some years ago, cutting a dishwasher drain hose from an air gap. But it was not an ER, it was a Kershaw. Pulling my hand and the knife back out from behind the sink, I accidentally tapped the spine against the sink with hardly any force. The lock failed.

So, looks like you use your knives. I suspect you will come to the same conclusion as I did. Liner and a Frame locks are nice gimmicks for knife fondles, but have no place in actual, legitimate work.


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extrastout said:
Frame lock is the only lock I trust for harder use, since my fingers are part of the lock function and security. I can feel and see the lock working, with my grip confirming it. Other locking mechanisms are hidden away and you just have to trust everything is working correctly with no defects. I do not really trust what I cant see. Glad you didnt hit a nerve, but only will have a small scar with a story and lesson learned behind it
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Your grip and fingers are as effective a part of the "lock security" as a wet ramen noodle would be at keeping a person in their seat, in a head on collision-not at all.

It's as scientifically realistic as a Pink Panther cartoon, where he falls from a great height while standing on something. And just steps off right as he's about to hit the ground, as if he was just stepping off a curb.

It does not matter if the frame lock was held by the strongest man in human history, full on white knuckling it-that steel, or titanium lock bar will still be able to shift (with scarcely more force, than it takes to intentionally disengage the lock) more than enough in his grip, to cause it to disengage. The human hand is made up of skin, ligaments, and flexible carpals. Even it's strongest grip, the anatomy of the hand can still be further compressed.

With your dominant hand, squeeze the index and middle finger of your non dominant hand as tightly as you possible can. Then look at how much you can still move your fingers that are in that supposed death grip. You will see that they can still move more than the amount of lockup a liner or frame lock would have to overcome, in order to disengage.

The human hand contributing to the security of lockup in a frame lock, is an absolute farce.



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RLDubbya said:
Heal up, t_a, & here is to intact nerves!

I like framelocks or the spydie bb lock. However, I have been told that I am essentially a dumma***, & that liner locks are best?

I wonder how the newer spydie powerlock will do.
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The blade will snap before the lock fails. Already has been demonstrated.


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ursamajor said:
Your grip and fingers are as effective a part of the "lock security" as a wet ramen noodle would be at keeping a person in their seat, in a head on collision-not at all.

It's as scientifically realistic as a Pink Panther cartoon, where he falls from a great height while standing on something. And just steps off right as he's about to hit the ground, as if he was just stepping off a curb.

It does not matter if the frame lock was held by the strongest man in human history, full on white knuckling it-that steel, or titanium lock bar will still be able to shift (with scarcely more force, than it takes to intentionally disengage the lock) more than enough in his grip, to cause it to disengage. The human hand is made up of skin, ligaments, and flexible carpals. Even it's strongest grip, the anatomy of the hand can still be further compressed.

With your dominant hand, squeeze the index and middle finger of your non dominant hand as tightly as you possible can. Then look at how much you can still move your fingers that are in that supposed death grip. You will see that they can still move more than the amount of lockup a liner or frame lock would have to overcome, in order to disengage.

The human hand contributing to the security of lockup in a frame lock, is an absolute farce.



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That is the biggest load of horse puckey I've read in a long time. We get it you don't like frame locks, but to say grip pressure doesn't have any affect of the lock strength is a complete fallacy. I guess all those engineers who've developed and tested them over the years were incorrect in their conclusion that hand pressure reinforces the lock.

It's very simple. If you get cut with any knife you were being dumb or doing something that you should not have been doing. The lock on a knife is not to protect you during use, it's only function is to hold the blade open so it's easier to transition from task to task under NO load.
 
DWDickey - Good post. It truly explains the function of a lock although some locks are better at preventing accidental, and that is the key word, closing of the folder.
 
dwdickey said:
The lock on a knife is not to protect you during use, it's only function is to hold the blade open so it's easier to transition from task to task under NO load.
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False. If that were true, then all folding knives would be slip joints. That is not how these knives are marketed, and that is not what the majority of knife users expect a lock to be. Maybe that is your expectation/ of a knife lock's purpose is, but that expectation is so small, that world wide, it is such a small percentage of people share that view, that it is statistically irrelevant. And perhaps you can show me ad copy of a maker, marketing their knife, and lock, that advertises their lock in a manner such as your sentiment of what purpose their lock serves in so many words. I seen crap like "virtual fixed blade" yada yada.

Furthermore, Chris Reeve, afaik has no engineering degree, so your engineer spiel sounds like it was pulled from the realm of hind quarters. He was a craftsman in an industry other than knife making, and a bike racer.

Framelocks have their place (like opening and closing the knife hundreds of times in front of the TV, or in your cubicle. Or for staging with a cup of coffee or beer, and photographing). Real world work is not taking one of them









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E.R.'s wording, claims and descriptions are 100% marketing driven, intentionally put in order to attract the less informed customers.
as for your question, I wouldn't trust this or that type of lock, but rather a well made one from a company you can trust for its reliability.
 
OP sorry about your cut. I can relate, had a cut/crush injury at work with nerve and artery damage. Had a great surgeon so I can still (mostly) use my finger.

Not from a knife though.

ursamajor said:
So, looks like you use your knives. I suspect you will come to the same conclusion as I did. Liner and a Frame locks are nice gimmicks for knife fondles, but have no place in actual, legitimate work.
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So what is actual, legitimate work?
My two main work knives are well made liner locks. Spyderco Military and an Emerson Mini 15.

This is my Emerson posing for a photo in my cubicle at work. Taking a break from being flicked and fondled.

2u6d0d5.jpg


Actually I use it to cut, pry, scrape, bore, anything I need to to keep my machine running and get the job done.

Neither have folded up on me.


(The chisels in the top of the pic are what caused my finger boo-boo)
 
Todd21969 said:
OP sorry about your cut. I can relate, had a cut/crush injury at work with nerve and artery damage. Had a great surgeon so I can still (mostly) use my finger.

Not from a knife though.




So what is actual, legitimate work?
My two main work knives are well made liner locks. Spyderco Military and an Emerson Mini 15.

This is my Emerson posing for a photo in my cubicle at work. Taking a break from being flicked and fondled.

2u6d0d5.jpg


Actually I use it to cut, pry, scrape, bore, anything I need to to keep my machine running and get the job done.

Neither have folded up on me.


(The chisels in the top of the pic are what caused my finger boo-boo)
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So ........... what you cut , what you pry, what you scrape , what you bore to keep your machine running ?? In my auto service I only use /hand made/ small fixed knife for scraping old gasket ,for other thing did not occur to me , so maybe I learn something new?
 
Natlek said:
So ........... what you cut , what you pry, what you scrape , what you bore to keep your machine running ?? In my auto service I only use /hand made/ small fixed knife for scraping old gasket ,for other thing did not occur to me , so maybe I learn something new?
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Cut conveyor belt, hydraulic lines, scrape built up crud off machine parts, pry rubber dampening collars off piston shafts, scrape gaskets, pry small chunks of stone out of moving parts, pry lovejoy's back together ( at least move them till I can get a real bar in there). Bore starter holes for screws in rubber and wood.

I don't work in auto service. I run a hydraulic stone splitter.

2rzfbqu.jpg
 
Todd21969 said:
Cut conveyor belt, hydraulic lines, scrape built up crud off machine parts, pry rubber dampening collars off piston shafts, scrape gaskets, pry small chunks of stone out of moving parts, pry lovejoy's back together ( at least move them till I can get a real bar in there). Bore starter holes for screws in rubber and wood.

I don't work in auto service. I run a hydraulic stone splitter.

2rzfbqu.jpg
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Sounds about right. I use mine about twice as much for non-cutting tasks as I do in cutting tasks. Like you I'm sure I view mine as a tool, one of it's capabilities is cutting but that certainly isn't all it gets used for.

Also don't feed the trolls :P
 
in the end no lock will solve bad handling and poor judgement. some locks will give one better results while handling poorly and making bad judgements, but liner locks and frame lock well built and implemented properly are plenty strong for good handling procedures and using good judgement.

none of this applies to the op as i still don't really get what happened, but i hope he heals well and doesn't' suffer any nerve numbness or loss.
 
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