5 stitches in my finger - Extrema Ratio fail

ursamajor said:
It does not matter if the frame lock was held by the strongest man in human history, full on white knuckling it-that steel, or titanium lock bar will still be able to shift (with scarcely more force, than it takes to intentionally disengage the lock) more than enough in his grip, to cause it to disengage. The human hand is made up of skin, ligaments, and flexible carpals. Even it's strongest grip, the anatomy of the hand can still be further compressed.
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Well, a bunch of years back, my brother had a no-name steel framelock folder he got for 8 dollars.
After a year or so, the lock had gone to the non-locking side, and would disengage with incredibly slight spine pressure.
It was also really dull...

So, I took it, and suspended some weight from the blade with some rope.
I forget if it was 20 or 4o pounds; this was a bunch of years ago, and I was doing it for my own curiosity. I also forget if I was wearing a glove or not.

Anyway, with it held in a hammer grip, I was able to easily lift those weights off the ground, suspended from the blade of a knife with a lock that failed from less pressure than it takes to close a slip-joint with a light spring.

Your grip does get in the way of the most common form of framelock/liner-lock failure, the lock-bar slipping off the tang.
It does not take much force to keep it from slipping off the tang; there is not a lot of sideways pressure involved.
It is not a case of being really strong or not; it is simply a case of whether your fingers will be in a position to prevent sideways slipping or not.
On many framelocks, your fingers are.

On some, your fingers are not, though.
 
Never had issues neither with liner lock nor framelock

But for safety reason I like when the knife has a flipper tab of a choil (the zt0550 was very good on that IMO)
 
I doubt the type of lock is a problem

My little mini afck never folded on me in 15 years of being used every day scraping, prying, picking, hacking, hammering and in ways that would give people here a heart attack. The lock never failed to fully engage.

I've had many a back lock fail to fully engage, then fold on me.

Heal up, OP.
 
Frame locks are perfectly capable of real work , whatever that means.
 
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extrastout said:
Frame lock is the only lock I trust for harder use, since my fingers are part of the lock function and security. I can feel and see the lock working, with my grip confirming it. Other locking mechanisms are hidden away and you just have to trust everything is working correctly with no defects. I do not really trust what I cant see. Glad you didnt hit a nerve, but only will have a small scar with a story and lesson learned behind it
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I'm afraid you're gambling with your fingers then mate. The age old debate will go on forever in the knife community. Fact is that almost no lock will fail if you're using it for purely cutting, not even slip joints.
However, stabbing, twisting during a cut, torquing the handle etc. - Yes that's when locks are shown to be different and not all created equal. The tri-ad lock is the only lock that i would trust my fingers with doing anything apart from actual cutting or slicing correctly. Squeezing a frame lock does make it more secure, but there is no way it's a good idea to trust your sweaty grip if you had to penetrate something hard with a knife by stabbing into it, walking away with your fingers would be a gambling cocktail of technique, faith that the manufacturer machined the lock geometry correctly and pure luck. I'd cut anything with my sebenza, would i use it for anything that required impact or sudden shock force? Hell no, that's why i always carry a tri-ad lock variant as a secondary knife for any possible rough use. Not the most fun lock to open and close on the couch, but it will let you keep your fingers if you do anything silly with your knife.
 
Emre said:
The model the OP is referring to is ER's lightest duty folder. Simple steel liner lock "gentleman's folder" design.

http://www.extremaratio.com/catalog/product/view/id/824/s/bf1-cd-black/category/14/

ER makes no claims of it being in any way fixed-blade-like. You might be confusing it with the RAO folder, which is essentially an axis lock with an additional steel stop pin. Pretty solid.

For whatever it's worth, the liner lock hat failed on my fingers was a Benchmade
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My mistake, I'll admit it. However, the image Extrema Ratio gives me is very "Medford-y" or "Strider-est", that Heavy duty stuff that are almost bomb-proof are their forte, and one would assume that that their knives are meant to work, and work HARD. Just my thoughts.

Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk
 
Hi. Best wishes for a prompt recovery. My rule of the thumb with my liner lock folders is I use them as “gents knives”. I don’t spare them cutting tasks but I try to be careful in those “borderline tasks” which can involve heavy hitting on the blade spine or tens of kilos pressure applied on the “wrong side”. Never had liner lock failures so far, luckily. I am more confident with back locks and frame locks when it comes to heavier duty activities (e.g.: light prying, hard piercing, tough carving, scraping, twisting/torqueing, etc.), where the direction and amount of forces involved are not always ideal.

What I normally do with my new folders is I put on heavy protective gloves and do what I call a “stabbing test” :). Not the spine whacking sort of thing (had my say already on this topic :D), but a plain, good stabbing and piercing/twisting exercise. I normally try this on wood, HDPE containers, old phone books, etc. It’s kind of fun and I still see this as a foreseen use, at least for me and my type of EDCing knives. It’s a good verifying test for me and help me building my confidence upon which level of trust I should set on the specific tool at hand.

The ER BF1 is, in spite of its look, a “tactical gents folder”, well built, reasonably stout with a good fit and finish but still it’s a gents folder :). For an ER folding knife more prone to “heavy duty” task, go at least for the BF2, which offers an additional lock, a manually activated security mechanism (basically a modified L.A.W.K.S. type, if I got it right). I own my ER BF2 since years, used it intensively and have zero complaints about. My long version here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1292307-Extrema-Ratio-Basic-Folder-2-Classic-Tanto
 
Glenn056 said:
My mistake, I'll admit it. However, the image Extrema Ratio gives me is very "Medford-y" or "Strider-est", that Heavy duty stuff that are almost bomb-proof are their forte, and one would assume that that their knives are meant to work, and work HARD. Just my thoughts.
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I didn't mean to suggest that this was your fault. I also wouldn't have expected a BF1 to collapse while whittling a tent stake. That's what I would consider fairly light duty; certainly not abusive or "hard use."

I've got a BF2 Pitbull, which is similar to your knife but has an extra safety to keep the liner lock in place against the blade tang. It's been one of my main EDC knives ever since I lost my first Microtech-Lightfoot LCC a few years ago. The liner lock by itself does feel flimsy compared to the Microtechs I've owned over the years, but no worse than the typical Benchmade or Emerson liner lock folder.
 
I trust all blade locks as they only fail if you're using the knife incorrectly, thus your fault if you cut yourself with a knife due to a lock failure. My favorite locks are the AXIS lock and the back-lock you would find in a Spyderco or Benchmade, they both have a great balance between ease of disengage, handle comfort, and solid lockup. I don't currently use any Cold Steels because I find the Tri-Ad to be overbuilt and difficult to operate, but if you the OP seek to find a lock that will compensate for poor usage of the knife by being impossible to disengage accidentally, the Tri-Ad lock is your lock; way too much of a lock for most people, but a finger-saver for the few who should probably be using a fixed blade anyway.
 
AndreLinoge said:
... cutting hydraulic lines... Hmm. Interesting... I smell something.. not hydraulic oil, either.
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Really???

15qrllh.jpg


Brought my HK Axis to work today.

The steel sheathing is rough on an edge. But I know how to sharpen.
 
I grew up with 2 options - slip joints and fixed blades. Back then, I cut myself with both. Then, the lock backs arrived on scene. I got a Buck 110. I cut myself with that one as well. :rolleyes:

In 58 years of actively using knives, I have cut myself MAYBE 10 times with a fixed blade, and most of those times was from doing stupid stuff with a machete. I cut myself more than that with a slip joint the first couple of years of using a knife - ages 4 to 5. Part of the learning curve of what NOT to use a knife for. :D

I prefer fixed blades because I hate cutting myself when I do stupid stuff with a knife. I tend to get cut more when doing stupid stuff with folders than with fixed blades. I try not to do stupid stuff BUT stupid is more stubborn than smart, so I still do stupid stuff.

So I prefer fixed blades - carry 3 every day, a pair of Kabar 125xs and a BK-11 necker for smaller jobs (and Angry Orchard bottles:D). I also carry a pair of folders for tasks where folders are more appropriate.

Fixed blades just don't work well when used as marlin spikes. They tend to cut the knots rather than just loosen them. :D (Damn, I wanted to use that piece of line again.:D:D)

So one of my folders is a Kabar rigger's knife with LOCKING marlin spike. As solid as a rigger's knife spike lock is, I still exercise extreme caution when using it as accidents with spikes tend to be impalements, not lacerations. If I had my druthers, I'd rather have a "fixed blade marlin spike", but since LEOs tend to lump them with daggers, I can't carry one in public. Yes, a 3.125" spike with a 4.5" handle is the same length as a 7.625" fixed spike, but one is a "dagger" and the other one isn't. The law is legal, not logical. My other folder is a Buck 510 for when a slimmer blade is appropriate for the task.

My attitude is -

NEVER TRUST A KNIFE LOCK - A KNIFE LOCK WILL FAIL WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT.

The line in my signature block where I quote myself is one I have been saying since my college days 4+ decades ago when I was bitching because I wasn't allowed to carry a fixed blade (or a sheathed folder) on a belt while in a Corps of Cadets uniform at Texas A&M.
 
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