5160 Forged Knives *work in progress

Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
85
Well I am new to these forums. So hello everyone. I am also a novice custom knife maker in that I am knowledgeable in metallurgy, but my novice skills is in the actual "art" of the knife making. In simply my knives will hack a 2x4 in half three times and shave your leg, but they dont look the nicest! I am working on this "art" weakness of my blade smithing. I am very true to Tim Lively's process for working with 5160 steel. All my blades are annealed, normalized to magnetic north, tempered, and the edge is looked at with a electronic magnifier during tempering in order to get a perfect edge that doesnt chip, nor roll after the 2x4 chopping abuse test. Below is two knives I am making for family members for Xmas, and am making complete video\picture documentary.


OK well.. since the last 5160 project I worked on two things came about that stopped me dead in my tracks. First off my kids side tracked me and a piece I had worked on for hours just burnt right up in the forge. Second my wood trunk base holding the 25lb weight plate caught fire during my work session. I thought little of the darken burn, but throughout the night that smoldered charcoal wood burned out a chunk of the trunk rendering that anvil no good. So I made a new one!
Since then I've taken it slow, and gathered wood here and there when time allowed, and made my charcoal instead of buying wood charcoal costing me. I made my kiln more efficient, and thus using less fuel to forge which also is making things a bit easier. So this past week I have put together my focus on making these two Christmas presents for family, and this is where I am at so far.

New Forge made-
Notice to the top left a black bowl with charcoal, and mud\adobe mixture. I placed this mixture over the tin can area, and around the wind pipe only to leave the tweers visible. I also tightened up all my air passages from the moon walk blower to the pipe with some good ole fashion duck tape. This forge has used very little fuel to get my piece to non-magnetic. Time well spent!

-Put cuts into my wind pipe to make tweers
Tweers.jpg

NewForge.jpg




-Charcoal gathered
charcoal.jpg


-Leaf Springs from a 70's model Catering truck
PICT1526-1.jpg


-Both of these pieces burned up. After forging with 01 tool steel, I can honestly say the upper critical temperature of 01 is why I burned these two 5160 pieces up, because they don't take the fire like 01. A lesson learned.
Of these two pieces I salvaged one, and made the smaller knife going to my sister in law. In which the small knife picture below is how it looks so far.
PICT1527.jpg


Of the above two pieces this knife came about.
AmysKnife.jpg

AmysKnife3.jpg

AmysKnife2.jpg


A bit of bio for the reason behind these two knives.

My brother in law and sister in law in which I am making these knives for live on a 1000 acre ranch in a home in which is all provided by the multi-million dollar owner, and they were hired, and given the home to live in with their job being to maintain the land, and catalog the deer for the hunters, clean the vacation hunting house, feed the exotics, buffalo etc. So in essence my brother in law is a die hard outdoors-men, and so is his wife and I think these knives will get a whole lot of use. The reason for the bowie is my brother in law is 6'4, 275lbs, and I'm making the handle a bit bigger to fit. All of these pictures and video's are going on a video I am making which will be burned onto a DVD and gift wrapped with the knives. So any suggestions along the way will be much appreciated. My biggest problems so far is losing focus during the handle making process! The problem I am having with the bowie, is I don't have a drill bit long enough to make a handle longer than 4". I am aiming for about 5 1/2 - 6".

Here is the Bowie, and a video below of me pulling it from the forge prior to my forge rebuild.


YouTube - BigBowieMovie1.avi
-Here they have been acid washed using frozen concentrated white vinegar.
It works faster than just bottled vinegar let me tell yah!
HoldingBoth3.jpg

-Turned at a slight angle to reflect some light.
BigBowie1.jpg

HoldingBoth1.jpg

HoldingBoth2.jpg


-Note: Even though I counter bent the bowie, it wasn't enough after hammering the peice if you notice the tip has a slight backwards point to it. Cant turn back now, but lesson learned. The bowie's spine is about as thick as a pencil. The edge even at an annealed state is razor for both knives ( I get fixated on sharpening ). So I have high hopes of an edge holding once I harden and temper. We will see!
All work in regards to annealment, heat treating, and tempering are following the exact guidelines of Tim Lively's process.

-To Do: Tomorrow I get paid, and am buying an extended set of drill bits to make handles! I am visiting a leather hobby shop here in town, and will buy the necessary tooling kits for the sheath, and for future knife projects. I am going to wood stain the hickory, but I need suggestions here. I don't want the color being plain old hickory.

- I will be starting on a second big bowie for my father in law! That project will start near the end of this week. I'm buying a chainsaw to gather my own wood with instead of using this darned axe, or buying mesquite.
 
There can be no better gift then a hand made one and as I know a lot folks around hear will tell you that a hand made knife is the best gift of all. thanks for showing us what Xmas is all about.
 
Cody, those are going to be great gifts. Nothing better than a gift that someone has put so much effort into. Great job.
 
Going to be appreciated, I'm sure! That is one big bowie, didn't realize until I saw it in hand. WOW Keep us posted.
Dozier (not bob)
 
Edited this post as I wrote a book of text.

Just to break some ice folks. In person I am somewhat silent, calm and collected as I analyze things. This is to do with my OCD disorder as I have a million thoughts running through my mind all day. However when I post on any forum I tend to write a book. So please understand if I post a lengthy post or reply it's not that I talk to much, but I think to much. LOL

I fixate on hammering knives at times for 8+ hours, or until my fingers cringe inwards as they horse cramp from over worked fore-arms. I have problems stopping so to speak!
 
Last edited:
There can be no better gift then a hand made one and as I know a lot folks around hear will tell you that a hand made knife is the best gift of all. thanks for showing us what Xmas is all about.

Yes sir. I'm looking at approximately 30+ hours between the both knives working them some times simultaneously. Only you folks know how much darn work this is, and for my family to understand a bit more I bought them a Knife Making Un-Plugged video by Tim Lively to go with both knives. In case they watch it they will see this is no one day task!
 
Going to be appreciated, I'm sure! That is one big bowie, didn't realize until I saw it in hand. WOW Keep us posted.
Dozier (not bob)

yes sir. That bowie is not cutting paper when I did the paper cut test. It is shaving my leg, but I am obsessing over it doing the paper cut, or it's my failure of technique as the smaller knife cuts the paper like scissors.

If I bevel out the edge a bit more I think I will obtain the finer edge I am after, but it's going to put this bowie at approximately 4" wide :). I will update the post with more pictures today!
 
I bought some goodies at Home Depot :), and stopped at Academy, but I'm tired. So I will take those photos tomorrow when I have time and upload them for now here is some updated pictures.

Here's an idea of how big this bowie is ;).
BowieSize.jpg


Tempered the blade, and did some hacking on 4x4 since it's too small to really hack through a 2x4. lol

AmyStraighness.jpg

AmySharpnessAbuse1.jpg



I installed the handle, and pinged the tang over the butt-cap. Here is the knife after tempering put together.
HandleInstalled.jpg


Here is the pinged over Tang to the butt-cap, and I used PC7 epoxy inside the handle as this stuff doesn't let go under temperatures, or shock, and used 3ton clear glue(epoxy) on the outer components.
Amy-PingedTang2.jpg

Amy-PingedTang3.jpg

Amy-PingedTang.jpg


Here is a video I took of a shave. This is right after I had already abused tested the edge, and installed the handle. I hope the video quality is good enough to see the results. Select 480P on the video window for best results on clarity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xioSTJ79ULE


Tomorrow I work on making the knife look great, and got me some MinWax as suggest by Erwin Roach aka E3 knifes ;) as well as a glossy protect-ant coat suggested by the home depot guy lol.



Note of problem encountered with the small 5160 steel knife *ODD PHENOMENA*.

Ok so after I took all these photos and the video and had shaved my leg. I was going to do the shaving paper test I had done before in a previous knife thread I posted. Well I found only but a portion of my blade was razor. I obsessed over this, and it was affecting the paper cutting test which bugged the hell out of me. So I went ahead and started sharpening it to resolve this problem, and here is where the problem comes about.

During tempering the knife already had a razor edge since I razor-ed it during it's annealed state, and it retained most of that razor edge into hardening surprising enough, but just not enough to cut the paper throughout the entire blade. This shocking part is after sharpening the knife it actually got dull-er. I failed numerous times to get an edge that would cut a freegin cloth it got so dull. All BS aside, I obsessed and sharpened that knife honest to god 6 straight hours +. For the most part of that frustrating time spent I came to the conclusion 5160 is a **\&tch to sharpen.

So for others to learn off this issue.. what I did is went back to using the files. I filed a flatter edge, and then hit it with the stones but got darn it took muscle and determination to get metal particles to come off the blade. I got it back to razor, and abuse tested it again and it's fine still shaving away, but until I used the files for a re-edge nothing I did would get it razor. I consider myself pro at getting any edge to razor, and this busted my brains. So today I bought a diamond bench stone by lansky, and a diamond coarse, and fine stone at Academy since I literally valley-ed my wet stone from these two 5160 knife projects.

In conclusion 5160 is probably the hardest steel I have ever tried\had to sharpen unto a razors edge, but once it's there it stays!. I would not recommend this metal to anyone that doesn't have proper sharpening stones or tools for edge otherwise you'll wear a grove into your water stone as I did mine, and get no where.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JZ0qP5eVFc

I figured since I bought these and other folks here might find it interesting here is a video of my new Goodies. The bench stone is a diamond bench stone by Lansky, and the other is a dual coarse\fine diamond sharpener made by Smiths.
I will let you folks know how I like or dislike these diamond stones, but I am praying for the money I spent on them that it should be nothing but good!
I collect sharpening stones so these are my first diamond additions.

In the ending of the video is a pocket knife given to me a few years back. I never heard of Ja Henkle brothers, but it's made in germany and not a single japan\china stamp on the knife. Does anyone have any input on Ja Henkle Brother knifes?

I will use Only these diamond stones tomorrow on that little pocket knife and will report if I can obtain a razor edge using only them alone!
 
Hey Cody,
Tim Lively got me turned on to knife making as well. I had very few tools when I started and Tim's simple approach to knife making really appealed to me. I made quite a few knives with the techniques I learned from his video. I use almost exclusively 5160 due to my circumstances. It is a fine steel for knives when the heat treating is done properly. I'm only guessing here but you may be having trouble with the sharpening due to your heat treating. By this I mean your edge may be too hard and require a bit more tempering. Heat treating is one of the most important steps in the knife making process and could make or break (literally) a blade. Tim's video is great but I want to encourage you to continue to investigate as much as you can on heat treating. There is a ton of great information on bladeforums.
Your knives are looking great and I can see you are determined to create something special for your in-laws. Please post a pic of that bowie when you are done as I'd love to see the handle you put on it.
Great job!
Mike
P.S. Please tell me you are wearing hearing protection when you are forging over that 25 plate! haha. That HAS to be loud.
 
Hey Cody,
Tim Lively got me turned on to knife making as well. I had very few tools when I started and Tim's
simple approach to knife making really appealed to me. I made quite a few knives with the techniques
I learned from his video. I use almost exclusively 5160 due to my circumstances. It is a fine steel for
knives when the heat treating is done properly. I'm only guessing here but you may be having trouble
with the sharpening due to your heat treating. By this I mean your edge may be too hard and require a
bit more tempering. Heat treating is one of the most important steps in the knife making process and
could make or break (literally) a blade. Tim's video is great but I want to encourage you to continue to
investigate as much as you can on heat treating. There is a ton of great information on bladeforums.
Your knives are looking great and I can see you are determined to create something special for your in-laws
. Please post a pic of that bowie when you are done as I'd love to see the handle you put on it.
Great job!
Mike
P.S. Please tell me you are wearing hearing protection when you are forging over that 25 plate! haha. That HAS to be loud.

Nope no hearing protection just the focus of getting it flat to deafen everything else out LOL.

Your right on the heat treating. I ended up hitting my grinder to grind up the edge past the harden
portion and more into the softer part of the steel. The little knifes shape took a drastic change almost
to the point I dont want to give it to my family, but am going to anyways. I tried wrapping the handle
in a rag, and re-heating up the blades edge.

I went back to the stones harpen the knife some more, and finally FINALLLY seen some metal flakes on
the stone letting me know I can work the metal. I did an abuse test and the edge held. Although the edge
is not quite as razor as I personally like to get my knifes it was good enough for a hair shave. I am simply
going to let her (small ones for female) know that this knife will get sharper and become easier to sharpen
througout use. However.. I am still weighing if I am going to present it as a gift for actual use, or telling
her the flaw, and let it be a 30+ hour peice of artwork.

I wished I had time .. I would forge out another one. This thin knife got harder than I'm used to with
bowies. It "Tricked" me so to speak. I think if I would have tempered it maybe 5-6 times instead of 3 times
like I do the bowies as Tim Lively suggest I would have got the temper in the sweet spot. Instead I had
to grind the harden steel towards the "sweeter" area of the blade which change the shape drastically.


- Thanks for the input friend. These are my first real 5160 projects, and in many ways I hate to say it
but I hate this steel. LOL... I loved 01 better! However.. I think once I get this steels tempering down
I will see why everyone speaks so highly of it! So my stubbornness will hopefully get me to loving 5160.
 
Last edited:
Good stuff Cody. I get the feeling you are a fast learner and your passion for it can't hurt either.

Yes sir I put allot into my hobbies and learn as much as I can only to find out how little I know.

I have put 2 days into sharpening that little knife. I hate 5160, but some where deep inside a voice
says once I learn this steel. I will make superior knifes at an affordable cost.

I just purchased WM9 Primitive Knife Making with Tai Goo, and Tim Lively to further learn more about
this steel. My first few 01 tool steel knives were a peice of cake to get a razors edge! I love 01 for
that purpose, but all of the "AMAZING" things I have seen people put knives through has all been with 5160!
 
Tough looking blades and the fact that they're gifts for your family means that just a bit of your heart and soul went with them. From one newb knifemaker to another: Good Job.
 
Tough looking blades and the fact that they're gifts for your family means that just a bit of your heart and soul went with them. From one newb knifemaker to another: Good Job.

Thanks a whole lot. I am pressed for time, and the time spent on just that little knife has me very worried about this bowie as far as edge is concearned.
I dont know this 5160 steel, and I do know it can get a paper cutting razors edge, but for example .. here is a video of an 01 round rod bar I forged into a deer horn skinner, and it's edge was marvelous, and easy to obtain compared to this horror known as 5160. I think 5160 is for the pro's LOL, but I'm to stubborn to to quit on it.

This is the kind of edge I am after. Here is my 01 knife I sold to a farmer for 120$ ... still razor from the last we spoke.
Here is the knife as a bar ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjskB_cUD4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2pg7kBfl0M

Here's a photo of that 01 steel. In my opinion 01 is far harder to hammer out than 5160, but gosh that steel was so easy to razor up, and sharpen!
that 01 bar turned into this straight razor edge knife!
KNIFESHARP1.jpg


Holding together the knife was simulation deer dung\sap glue, but at epoxy strength.
 
I am going to sacrifice the little knife, and not give it as a gift for usage, and put it away as a reminder
of when to quit, and junk a lemon, and also a lesson on heat treatment. I should have tried to
sharpen the knife after tempering and hardening to instead of hardening it with a razors edge.
The frustrating part is I hacked the hell out of a 4x4 with that little knife before installing it into
it's handle, and it stayed razor hair shaving sharp.

Today I am going to Radio Shack to buy a replacement 15X electronic magnifying glass.
Today I am also going to work on the bowie, but am going to watch the Tim lively video before
proceeding to make sure I don't miss a step.​

I think the failure for this little knife is the fact I heat treated it following Tims instructions, but it's
thinner than a bowie. Thus It was probably fast to quench unto austenite, and three tempers probably
was not enough to convert the austenite to martensite leaving austenite still in the blade hence the
14 hours of sharpening, and not a single metal flake came off that knife until I grind-ed that edge bit
by bit to where most of the martensite was, and it FINALLY flaked, and took an edge, but is not keeping
an consisten blade edge some parts razor, others dull after some abuse\usage.

I also learned that after an hour of sharpening if it's not razor before an hour there's
something wrong with the tempering LOL. Before I hit the grinder which I didnt want to do, but did
for learning purposes. Not even my diamond hone flaked metal from that knifes edge it was so hard.
Like I said.. what was so confusing is it took all the abuse and kept the original edge I put on it! So
my other lesson learned is it to get a work edge on the blade, normalize, temper, and then sharpen
to razor before installing the handle. This mistake cost me hours of frustration!​

Here is what the knife looks like now! A great dust collector, and thats what it's going to do. I'm going
to collect my mistakes and use them as reminders, but other than the failed edge I feel proud of that
pinged over tang considering I dont have a vice LOL. I used DOG eared Vice Grips to clamp down on a
2x4 to ping that tang over, and boy was it a ***tch!

GrindToDeath2.jpg

AmyKnifeGrindtoDeath.jpg


Since I'm shelving it, I stopped working on aesthetics hence the hammer marks were grind-ed out as
I investigated my tempering problem. It's got a beautiful mahogany stain.. I had to stop obsessing on
this piece and tell myself to just leave it be which is very very very difficult for me to do when I work on
something.

I am considering breaking it to look at it's grain, but the hours put into it make me hold back. I will leave this
up to you experts to suggest what good I can bring out of this failed work, and what to be looking for if I break it.

-Cody
 
Last edited:
After looking around for a file my little boy snatched up I found this peice of 5160 bar that I had melted in half because I didnt watch it enough, and had got side tracked from my kids. The longer of the two peices is a good 8", and so if I can get this bowie mostly done by the end of this weekend. It gives me a week to possibly forge another knife. However.. I may not have time to make a hollow wood handle like the previous one, and might just do a hickory split handle, screw holes through the handle. Take some 16 penny nails in an annealed state. Cut them to length put them through the drill holes, and ping them down as well as 3ton glue the handle.


AmyKnife2-2.jpg

AmyKnife2.jpg

We will see if I get to this point during this week as I also have limited coal.
 
OK so I sacrificed the blade as a friend came over, and was looking the knife over he just could not believe that the knife couldn't hold a razor edge, and that it was tough as nails to sharpen. I told him it could hold a razor edge, but it will require grinding the blade higher up into the softer more heated metal close towards the spine. I had already bent the knife to see what would happen expecting it to snap since it's so hard to sharpen I assumed it was going to break, but instead it bent farther back than I could ply it from the vice it was in. I stepped on it to further bend it inwards, and it just bent back more, and that's when my friend came over. He asked me if he could have it for cleaning horse hooves since he liked the pointy edge. I said "sure take the forbidden knife before I snap it.

This knife boggles the hell out of me. Too hard and tough to sharpen, and to damn soft that it doesn't snap, and only near the end of grinding did it start holding an edge. It makes almost no sense to me. I am going to further research this equation.

Heres the pictures:
PICT0011.jpg

PICT0010.jpg

PICT0012.jpg
[/IMG]
PICT0009.jpg
 
Buying this today at RadioShack to get a better look at the edge.
pRS1C-2453356w345.jpg


I also casted some inguts. Guessing here, but about 10% copper mix\90% lead
INGUTS1.jpg

INguts2.jpg



I have begun forging another smaller knife hunter knife. I will be picking up some more coal today as well.
 
Last edited:
I seem to recall reading a while back that Wayne Goddard had some misadventures with leaf spring that he thought was 5160. Turned out it wasn't, and he eventually guessed that it might have been 6150.

Bottom line, you're working with mystery steel. It might be 5160, it might not. Good attempts, nonetheless.
 
Back
Top