52100 For stock removal?

J. Hoffman

J. Hoffman

Joined
Jan 1, 2011
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Some guy in NJ is have a big sale on 52100 and I was wondering how it would work for me. I'm a new maker, and only doing stock removal at this time. I'm mostly making kitchen knives. I've always sent out my HT, but will be getting a kiln this year so I can do my own. I don't mind holding onto this stuff for when I'm a better maker/HT'er, but will it work good for kitchen stuff? Thanks for any advice. Jess
 
Hi Jess, how's things back in Wisconsin?


The short answer is, "go for it!"

52100 is excellent steel, among the very best of the "carbon" steels. It has fine grain, high toughness and good edge-holding ability. It's pretty easy to get a very keen, thin edge on it, and maintain that fine edge. With appropriate geometry it can perform very well in almost any sort of knife. There really is no reason not to use it for kitchen knives, except perhaps that it doesn't have high corrosion-resistance.

As for stock removal, it grinds/drills/finishes pretty similar to O1 and 1095. Again, there's no reason not to use it. :thumbup:

As regards HT, Peter's can do a fine job with it or you can decide between several approaches when doing it yourself.
 
Thanks for the reply James. I'll order some tonight. As for how is Wisconsin, it's normal. Yesterday was summer, and now I think we are into fall. Snow is probably coming soon. How is life in Knoxville?
 
I'm a new maker myself. Also using stock removal and outsourcing the HT to Peter's. I am working on a batch of 20 right now using 52100 from Aldo. As James mentioned, it is easy to work with as far as grinding/drilling/finishing. I will likely order more while Aldo has it on sale. BTW, thank you for the heads up on that sale Stacy. I am putting full flat grinds on 1/8 and 5/32 stock. Should make for some serious cutters. I don't see why you couldn't use it for kitchen knives. Would likely need a little more care than SS but, that shouldn't be any problem.

Adam Buttry
 
52100 is an excellent steel for a kitchen knife. It holds an edge well, takes an exceptional edge and is fairly rust resistant compared to some other knives. It is my choice of steel for a kitchen knife and though now as semi-retired I cook only professionally during tourist season, I used to cook full time. I love 52100.
 
For what application? According to Kevin Cashen's numbers, if you austenize it in salt at 1475 or so and quench ion oil, the as quenched hardness is as high as 67. That can be your starting point.
Jastab said:
What's a good heat treat for 52100? 60rc?
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jdm61 said:
For what application? According to Kevin Cashen's numbers, if you austenize it in salt at 1475 or so and quench ion oil, the as quenched hardness is as high as 67. That can be your starting point.
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I make 4" blade hunter style knives. I was curious what the "prime" hardness is. I don't want brittle, but don't want soft. So far I've made a2 @59rc and cpm d2 @61rc. I know these steels can go way harder, but that's not ideal for batoning and hard wacks. I'm wondering what the magical hardness is?
 
Jastab

I am making similar designs myself (3"-4" drop points). I'm not sure what you mean by "prime" hardness but, on my knives I will be requesting a tested hardness of 58/59 rc. Like you, I do not want my knives too soft or too hard. I want them soft enough that the common man who knows nothing of rockwell hardness numbers can sharpen them using commonly available stones. However, I want them to be hard enough to hold a good working edge for a reasonable amount of use without worry of chipping. After discussing this with Aldo, he was in agreement that shooting for 58/59 rc would suit my application nicely.

Adam Buttry
 
When I say prime, I mean ideal for cutting tools. You don't see benchmade pushing their d2 to 65 cause its too brittle ect ect.. but they found the ideal range, and I'm curious what this range is for 52100. A lot of metals can go extremely hard, but its hard to find the balance between hard and soft for blades. I have no experience with 52100 yet, but my next batch will be made of this so I'm curious in how hard I should go. (I will mention these will be professionally heat treated)
 
MtnDude said:
After discussing this with Aldo, he was in agreement that shooting for 58/59 rc would suit my application nicely.
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I tend to agree with that. That will make for a very tough blade that is very easy to hone, and will still hold an edge well (unless badly abused, it will do pretty well at resisting both dulling from abrasion, and dulling from small chipping). There's certainly no need to have it tempered softer than that.

For my personal stuff, I would happily run it higher, like 60 or even 62Rc in a hunter or EDC. You give up a little toughness, but gain more in edge holding, and with a nice thin edge it's not really any harder to sharpen.

If it was a combat knife, I'd go for the 58Rc hardness and a thicker edge/less acute bevel to maximize overall strength.
 
james terrio said:
I tend to agree with that. That will make for a very tough blade that is very easy to hone, and will still hold an edge well (unless badly abused, it will do pretty well at resisting both dulling from abrasion, and dulling from small chipping). There's certainly no need to have it tempered softer than that.

For my personal stuff, I would happily run it higher, like 60 or even 62Rc in a hunter or EDC. You give up a little toughness, but gain more in edge holding, and with a nice thin edge it's not really any harder to sharpen.

If it was a combat knife, I'd go for the 58Rc hardness and a thicker edge/less acute bevel to maximize overall strength.
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Thanks for the answer! I think ill run em at 60rc.
 
Did I miss the sale? There's no reference on the website that I can see. (I see, for example, that a .187 x 2" x 48" of 52100 is $33. I don't know if that's a discount from previously or a good price in general.)

Also, when ya'll order carbon steel from Aldo, do you also have it surface ground? I've only purchased 1084, but it was pretty clean and didn't seem necessary. It's an extra $.25 per square inch.
 
For my personal stuff, I would happily run it higher, like 60 or even 62Rc in a hunter or EDC. You give up a little toughness, but gain more in edge holding, and with a nice thin edge it's not really any harder to sharpen.
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James is right on here. Especially in kitchen knives with thin edges- an edge can be really durable at a high hardness, if thin, fine grained, and stable (think 52100.)
After all, razor blades are mighty flexible- and yet, are quite hard. It's the thinness that allows it. W2 is much this way, too. Not prone to chipping, so can be ground thin and tempered hard. And, an edge .007" thick at Rc 62 is no harder to sharpen than an edge .020" thick at Rc 59... imo.
 
Salem has it right. Flex is a property of thickness, not hardness. The only thing hardness determines is whether the metal will snap or take a set when it reaches the elastic (what's the word I'm looking for here? End point?)
 
I just finished normalizing 35 blades at 1650 from 52100. It took me 5 hours in my oven because I can only fit in 4 at a time. It is great steel but has a picky heat treat. I'll harden them tomorrow. Aldos 52100 had supper fine grain and is very tough.
 
Medic, elastic limit? Beyond which, is either plastic deformation (bending) or structural failure (snap!)
A couple of longer blades that I made of 52100 a while back, which had spines around 3/16" and full quench with soft back temper- I tried to straighten them cold which was not smart and that changed my ways forever. A three point in the [post vise would barely bend them, it took a LOT of overbend to get them to take a set, and there was not a very wide range of plastic deformation. So, a catastrophic snap on a thick blade with lots of tension on it! Don't do that...
 
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