52100 Fowler Video Questions

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DaQo'tah Forge

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Hi my name is DaQo'tah
I have tons of questions about the video on knife making I just saw.

The guy in this video was named Ed Fowler, and he made a cool workingman’s knife out of 52100 steel.

I have some roller bearings that seem to be seen on Mr. Fowler’s workbench, and I wish to learn how to make a knife that takes after many of the design elements of the Fowler knife. Although Mr Fowler goes on to make his knife out of a huge 3 inch round bearing, I think he means to say that the smaller roller bearing that I have on hand is also made out of 52100, correct?
I was hopeing it was, for I wish to do this right.

I'm so new to all of this, and wish to not waste any money, I have a 72-inch belt sander and a drill press, but I’m a bit confused as to this buffer thingy…

In the video, Mr. Fowler talks about buffing the knife a few times, but we don’t actually get to see him do this. What type of buffing do you thing he was talking about?

What type of pad is used? What type of buffing compound or compounds?

Also, another question I have about some of the things that appear in the Fowler video deal with the sheep horn handle.

I noticed that when he glued the tang onto the large sheep horn, that he did not place it then in a vice to hold it tight, but just had the knife horn sitting (standing up position) in the vice. Don’t you need to squeeze the horn to get a good fit?

Another question is, when Mr. Fowler places the large guard onto the knife, he seems to just add flux and heat at only the underside (the tang end), is this the way its done?

And, my most important question, in the Fowler video, Mr. Fowler heat-treats the blade with a torch. Now I’m going to get a torch to be able to copy and learn this very important step, but the trouble is, how do you turn on a torch without blowing yourself up? When I get my torch, it will likely come from my work place with no instructions, I need to know how you guys turn this thing on? What is the order of things?

I will have more questions tomorrow..LOL

My little knife website can be seen at
http://Daqotahforge.tripod.com
 
Start taking classes (welding, machine shop) at local college. Also read every book your library has on blacksmithing, knifemaking, welding, and shop work in general. Do an inter-library loan request to have books brought in which your library doesn't carry.
 
You can read or learn by trial and error as far as the knife making goes. But for somebody to give you directions over the internet on how to light a torch is crazy. You absolutely have to have somebody show you in person. Its just not about lighting it but making sure all your fittings are tight and thats just one safety precaution. I believe knife makers are born and not made. You have to have a certain amount of mechanical ability. I believe all knife makers are or have been some type of handyman or do it yourselfer. Just get on the web and type what you are seeking, there are so many tutorials out there to learn from. Get somebody in person though to show you how to use your torch.
 
DaQo'tah , there's a pretty good chance Ed Fowler will jump in here and answer your questions. I've had the video for a while and watched it many times, I'd like to suggest you watch it again some of your answers may be there.

I'm going to be making knives one of these days, if I were you I would either get to a Hammer-In or hook up with a maker in your area so that you can get some first hand knowledge. As for me, before I start pounding on any steel I'm going to pay Ed & Angie a visit. ;)
 
Hi this is DaQo’tah, again…

I’m very supprised that my questions were posted as fast as they were, and I’m excited to see some answers already.

Besides the questions I have already listed, I also would like to know about Mr. Fowler’s use of the power hammer.

Now in his video he is seen using up to 3 different power hammers to draw out his steel into a size and shape he needs. But I don’t have a power hammer?

To tell the truth, I’ve never seen a power hammer in person, nor had even heard of one until I saw the 52100 steel, Fowler video. Now I will never try to pound flat a 3 inch steel ball like he does, the roller bearings I have on hand are not that big that I cant just heat them up and hit them with a sledge, but, should I try to make a steel press?

I saw a homemade steel press on a knife makers website, it looked easy to build, just a bottle jack and some steel plates and ready-rods. Is this type of press able to help me flatten and forge a roller bearing the way I need?

And what’s the deal with the huge Power hammers anyway? Just how old are such things? I have spent this last afternoon looking at different websites of knife makers listed here, and I have yet to see a power hammer that didn’t look about 100 years old?

Where does a guy even find such a thing? If I wanted to one day own my own power hammer, how much money are we talking?
This is only the first day I have posted to this website, I have much to learn, like...What is that symbol next to my first posting mean? it looks like a letter with a dot on it?

Thanks,
DaQo’tah
 
Hello DaQo'tah; I admire your enthusiasm! You have a lot of questions. Like Blackboogers and Rick suggested,you have to start at the beginning. A college shop or art class would be an excellent place to start, visit a class in action, talk to the instructor and let him know what you want to learn, when you find the right man you will know. Don't be in such a hurry that you get yourself hurt. It doesn't matter if your age is 20 or 60 you have plenty of time. Knife making can be as simple or advanced as you wish to go.
My power hammers have all been working steel since before 1920. There are newer ones on the market, some better some worse. My favorite power hammer man is Harlan Suedmeier, Nebraska City Nebraska, phone 402-873-4372. He is as honest as they come and a good man to deal with.

My favorite forge came from Ken Mankel, he is also one fine fellow.

You did not state where you live, but in Knives 2002 you will find knife makers listed by state, call them and ask to visit their shops, most will say yes. Watch them work, listen to what they say and above all, take your time and get to know the equipment you will be using.

I do not clamp the distal part of my knife handles as they need no pressure to hold fast to the knife, just a good fit.

When you are ready to forge steel, I recomend Rex Walter, phone 724-752-0742 for steel, he sells 52100 forged down from 5 1/2 inch round bars, this is where I get my steel now. Bearings work, but have more problems than virgin stock of a known heirtage.
Thanks for watching my video, I enjoyed your comments. There is one rule when traveling in the world of knvies, enjoy the voyage and Good Luck.
 
Hi this is DaQo’tah

Today I remembered the advice given me so far, and spoke with a welder that happened on the same jobsite that they had my crew working at today.

He was happy to show me his torch and explain the workings, “BOY! This is a cool tool!”

I can’t wait to pick up my own torch later this month.

Thanks for encouraging me to talk to the people who had the answer.

Another thing that happened to me to day was that I learned first hand the importance of having a guard on a working mans knife.

I carry a Leatherman WAVE, is a handy-dandy item, but its limitations stand out at times as well. Today at work I was down in the bottom of a deep trench trying to cut some roots out of a underground pipe, when I dropped my WAVE into the muck. After I found it and started again to cut the roots, I soon discovered that once the WAVE gets covered in muck, it becomes one slippery chunk of sharpen steel…I see Mr. Fowlers point in the video now about adding a large guard to the blade of the 52100 blade.

I just got to make a 52100 knife with a Fowler type guard.
I will now phone the listed name for that 52100 steel.

let you know...

DaQo'tah
(oh by the way, I live in Grand Forks, North Dakota. Its up near the top end of the map, and as far as I can find out there are no other knife makers in my home town. Or else they keep well hidden)
 
You obviously have a wonderful artistic vent. Please conintue to ask questions, study and read before engaging any of the mechanics found here or elsewhere. There are voluminous amounts of information here through links and archives. Practice is the key to succeeding. Just make sure which end of the torch is pointed where!! Judging by the weaponry I saw at your web site, it would not be good to apply mechanical thrust to such an item without knowing the presumtive outcome. LOL Terry
 
DaQo'tah,

You might also consider buying a copy of Ed's book It has a whole bunch of good information in it and it's also good reading:) . Watch out though reading the book and watching the movie can lead to obsessive cumpulsive behavior.:D And a lot of broken knife blades.


Bill
 
Hi this is DaQo'tah!

Thanks so much for the advice, I'm really trying to take it to heart and learn from your experiences. I spend every free moment I have lately at this website, doing research. I can't help but feel that I'm so far behind!

And, hey, Thanks for visiting my website http://daqotahforge.tripod.com

I have a counter there which tells me how many visits have been made to my little site, and I gotta tell you that lately it's been going nuts. I definitely plan to contact the source of steel listed by Mr. Fowler and purchase some 52100 steel. I thought I was going to be able to do that yesterday, but I work from 7:00am to 8:00pm, so I'm hoping for a rain day that will allow me to call and place an order at a more reasonable time.

I again watched the 52100 Fowler video last night. I'm just amazed at how much Mr. Fowler seems at home in his shop.

My shop is still being set up. And on that topic, One of the Blade Forum's links showed me a photo of a profesional knife maker's shop. In the backgroud on his wall he had neatly hung his supply of 2x72 sanding belts. Each sanding belt was hung over a large curved surface on the wall, like an empty coffee can or something. I copied this design last night out in my shop. However, another thing that appeared in that photo of the professional knifemaker's shop I didn't understand.

Each sanding belt had a small block of wood placed inside of it. I didn't understand the point of doing that. It's as if he turned the sanding belt into a little hammock for this block of wood.

"What's the deal with that?" I thought to myself. Well, last night when I tried to hang my sanding belts from the improvised curved surfaces in my own shop, this mystery was revealed.

Some of the sanding belts, instead of hanging loosely, would coil up like a spring. I couldn't straighten them out to hang nicely like some of the stiffer ones did, so I grabbed a near-empty roll of duct tape and placed it inside the belt to hold it down and look better. It was when I backed up to look at my night's work when it dawned on me. "Them blocks of wood! From that guy's website! Ahhh, now I get it"
 
I can attest to the contagesnes of Mr. Fowler's book "Knife Talk." I got it and read through it several times. Then proceded to start collecting blacksmithing tools and building a forge. He mentions that a good source of 5160 is John Deere load shafts so, living only 2 miles from a dealership I went down there and bumed a few used ones from them. So there I was with a 100 lb. anvil 2 lb. cross peen and about a 3" section of 1 1/4" load shaft and I commenced to flattening and drawing it out. after an hour of drawing I decided I need to work a little smarter and put it up for a few weeks until I could scrounge some materials to build a fuller for my anvil. Even after that it took another hour and a half and several blisters to draw and rough shape the blade. Reading his book gave me the bug bad! Now i'm searching for a trip hammer to make drawing those shafts easier but thanks to ed I have had tones of fun heating and beating metal.

By the way, I've also made several rail road spike knives and think any body else like me who is just getting into bladesmithing should try some. They make neat gifts and give you both forging and grinding practice on a metal that is easier to work than tool steel.

Thanks again to Ed for writing Knife Talk.

Matt
 
Hi Matt this is DaQo'tah

that RR spike knife sounds like a good place for me to start this weekend. So tell me how you did it?

I have a Coal Forge, about 100 lbs of coal and a RR right down the road from my land.

also, I just got a computer camera so i can add photos here, and at my website as I make knives.
 
Mr Fowler in his video, tells us what type of sanding belts to use, but I still have a question about the buffing.

and the type of glue he used to hold the handle on seems to not be named as well.

and,I just got that book by Mr Fowler that was suggested,KNIFE TALK, and in it, Mr. Fowler talks about the size of a good knife to be easy on the fingers.

the size above the handle is said to be best at 1/4 inch. Now in the Video I dont see this , nor is it talked about. So I will need to know what size 52100 steel to order...shall 1/4 inch do?
 
DaQo'dah: Each of us makes many decisions when making knives. We can make them faster, or we can make them better. We can make true high performance knives or we can,again, make them faster.

My new book will be comming out in January, Knife Talk II. It will contain more how and why high performance knves come to be. In the mean time, take the testing part in the knife talk book seriously, providing you wish to make high performance knives. Valid testing is the only way to come to know your steel. The larger the steel when you begin, the greater the performance potential of your knives, providing you do nothing to hurt the steel, and do everything to bring out the potential of that steel. Rex sells the 52100 steel by the linear inch. It does not matter if it is 1/16 X 1/8th or 3" X 3" therefor it is more economical to buy the largest stock you can work down.

My average pronghorn has around a 5 inch blade and a 5 1/4 inch handle. This makes for a good working knife for tough stuff and will still clean 6 inch brook trout.

While you are developing the kind of knife you want to make, look at all the knives you can, ask yourself questions like why? what for? when you examine the knives. If high performance is your goal, you want to have a valid reason for each and every design aspect of your knives.

While some feel the knifemaker should be versitile in his knives, I feel that there is a lifetime of opportunity for developing one specific knife to its ultimate state.

Like I said many times, there is only one rule when exploring the world of knvies. Enjoy the voyage! I feel that you will.
 
This is DaQo'tah...

I have much to think over,

What type of knife shall I be known for?

What type would be of the most use for me?

yes, I have much to think over...
 
Ed,

Thanks for all the great info, as usual. I didn't realize Rex's pricing policy. I have access to a 50 pound hammer and a Carlisle hydraulic press--what size stock would you recommend? I like working steel so I am not worried about the time involved in working this stuff down. I just don't want stock larger than my equipment can deal with.

Always a pleasure, thanks,

John
 
John: Thanks for the kind words. I don't have much experience with hydraulic presses so can't advise you there. I like hammers and go to my 50 pound Little Giant with billets measuring about 1"x2" x 18 inches. I forge these from larger stock, 3 x 3 x10 inches on my Beaudry 150 pound hammer. Start with the largest stock you can work and take your time, the more hammer hits and the more thermal cycles the greater the potential performance of your blades. 1625 is my top forging heat, this is where the scale that forms on the billet is small, about like snow flakes. When large sheets of scale form, you are over 1725 f. and grain growth will obviate the advantage of low temp forging.

DaQo'Tah: The buffing compound I use all comes from Bob Brownells, I use 555 white for handles and 555 grey for steel and brass. The maximum speed on my buffers is 1725, this is fast enough and slower would be more safe. Get to know your buffers and respect them, they can hurt you. When buffing I keep my forearms tight against the side of my body for stability and pay attention to what I am doing. Blades still get away from me sometimes. The buffer should be on a stand rather than on a bench, benches can bounce blades. There should be nothing between the buffer and the floor. Gloves, aprons and the like are false security, I have yet to see anything practical you can wear that will stop a blade. You should have someone teach you how to buff a blade. The only thing that makes buffing a blade safe is competance.
 
John,

I like Ed, Get my steel from Rex Walter. I get the steel in bars that are 2 to 2 1/2 inches square. I now have a 100 pound little giant that I use to forge the bars into smaller billets. My point Is that before I got the 100 pounder I used my fifty pound hammer to forge down two inch bars and I have forged down three inch bearings on it by opening up the dies to their widest setting and then resetting them after I have the bearing forged down into a more manageble size. It does take some time but you can get it done without heating past roughly 1625.

Have fun:)
 
Hi this is DaQo'tah!

I have decided to learn the art of the High Performance blade...

I wish to make blades that will outcut all the rest, and make them out of 52100 steel.

I also wish to learn about this steel,to understand its personality...

I took the good advice I have been receiving, and called a Mr. Rex Walter and placed a small order for some 52100 steel!

This is the very same steel that I have been watching in the Fowler Video being turned into a very High Performance knife. I'm very excited about receiving this steel in the mail soon.
This is the very first real High Performance steel I will have a chance to work with and I can't wait!

Mr. Walter was very nice man to talk to on the phone, I was sorry that I had to call him on this Labor Day Holiday, but I work such long hours in the summer (7:00 am to 8:00pm) that I had to take the chance and call him today.

Now I was watching the Fowler 52100 Video again this morning, and copied down the sanding belt grits that were listed. They were - two different 36 grit for "Hogging" steel, then a 60 grit, 180-grit and ending up with a 500-grit belt. This is way different than what I have been using before. I got a book on knife making last year, and in that book the guy said to go from 36 to 60 and then end at 220 grit.

Now as for the buffer situation in my shop...

Well, I have never used a Buffer before, they don't seem dangerous when I look at them, but everyone who has experience with buffing blades always seems to make it sound like its more dangerous than tickling an alligator. We shall see.

I hope to go into town after I get off work tomorrow and pick up a 8 inch bench grinder that I can turn into a full-time buffing station. Mr. Fowler's use of two different types of buffing compound (Brownells 555-white for the handle and 555-gray, for the steel) should be easy to find or something close to it anyway.

I still have to think over what type of handle I will make, for I doubt I will ever find a sheep horn dealer in my area of North Dakota.

Is there a place to call and order the same type of sheep horn as seen in the Fowler 52100 Video?
 
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