>>> 7" Test results are in! <<<

Oregon Duck, for almost all utility purposes your attitude of "several competent pieces versus one uberknife" makes sense. In a few rare high-risk areas it doesn't - but those are VERY rare.

To me, it's in fighters that small increases in feel and performance can pay off big. The "payoff" doesn't come in "tangible form" usually, but in "an extra little attitude" - it can be just enough extra to make a mugger run like a bunny. You can't easily put a price on that...but the moment you hold a Dog, you realize it's got it IN SPADES.

I'm in a bad neigborhood with heavy gun control and no ready access to a CCW permit unless this lawsuit of mine pans out big. I've had to draw steel on the street, it's not inconvievable I'll have to again. In which case, I'll at *least* have the Sifu, more likely that plus either ATAKoid (WSP1) or Outsider. Lately the Dog has had more street time because the horizontal carry rig I have for it doesn't get in the way of access to the back pocket where the Sifu lives. In a pinch, Sifu *plus* Dog is better than Outsider.

Once I score a CCW (I *will* eventually) I'll have to totally rethink. Until then, I've got some damned pleasant choices in steel.

Jim
 
Ah, at long last, the goods have been delivered. The format was clean and easy to read. The selections are varied but fair. And best of all, no BS as far as I can see. Even if it's just for "fun", this one is worth linking for future reference.

Thank you Mike. Looking forward to more great reviews.
 
Good test, Mike!

How was the handle of the Fällkniven? Maybe you could include Project I for the next round? I'd like to hear how that would work compared to these knives.

Hugo.
 
Hello Mike,

I miss one knife in your comparaison:
there is no Chris Reeve's in your test.

cheers,
JM
 
Just have to agree with Nemo here, it would be very interesting to say the least to have a CR Project included in the test. Then again, I wouldn't send my knife in for the test (if I actually had a Project). So I understand that it was not intentional or neglect, but rather a lacking of someone with the guts (I mean this in the most positive way possible) to send in his CR knife for the test, myself included
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BTW great test and good for future reference IMO.
 
Concerning the edge chipping, that is not surprising behavior. It has been commented on before in MD forum, I have seen it and Will Kwan and Aubrey Moore have described it in detail. It is not because of the factory sharpening, even if you badly left a full burr on the edge that will not induce chipping which is macroscopic behavior. Will and I both sharpenened our knives multiple times. The steel is simply not ductile and has very low durability because of the high hardness.

The most surprising part of the test was the chopping. While I never thought the ATAK would be a high performance chopper because of the balance, I never thought its performance would be that low that a 2x4 would pose any degree of difficulty. However this is the third time that the same result was seen when it was compared to a similar knife (Snickersnee and Nemo said the same thing).

As for CS handle being abrasive, I would like to see your reaction to Reeves or Ontario's Spec Plus line Mike.

One final comment, sharpen the knives. While there is no excuse for a poor edge, factory edges are only on your knife once. As it stands now a poor rating in that area will effect every part of the review. That seems to place way too much importance on one aspect. As well, it is very important to know how the knife responds to steeling, stropping, and ease of heavy grinding (to remove nicks).

-Cliff
 
I agree with Cliff on the sharpening, as a factory edge could be gone in a few minutes of use. I like a nice factory edge but all it really ends up meaning is that it makes sharpening the first time a bit easier. I also agree with Oregon Duck about maybe getting more knives with the same dollars, but two Cold Steel SRKs for the price of an A1 seems might be the better deal, since the Carbon V seems to have had better edge holding than the VG10 and didn't chip either.
 
I agree with Cliff on the sharpening, as a factory edge could be gone in a few minutes of use. I like a nice factory edge but all it really ends up meaning is that it makes sharpening the first time a bit easier. I also agree with Oregon Duck about maybe getting more knives with the same dollars, but two Cold Steel SRKs for the price of an A1 seems might be the better deal, since the Carbon V seems to have had better edge holding than the VG10 and didn't chip either.
 
Great reviews, Mike! One thing - I'd reverse the ratios that you show for each of the spec categories, so that the score is divided by the MSRP, rather than the other way around. This will give a better idea of how many "points-per-dollar" you get with each knife, and better describe the value.
 
Thanks for the good honest test. I am glad i sent you a knife for testing, wish more makers would have done the same.

Im happy you liked handling the knife and that it held an edge well, these are my main concerns. I have since switched to flat and convex grinding, this has increased performance greatly.

Steel on that knife was 1095, and a similar model (but flat ground, hand rubbed finish) sells for $150 with a Kenny Rowe sheath.

Thanks again for the good honest testing!!

Matt Lamey.
 
One other thing, concerning price indexing, it is very important to note that some of these knives are readily available at heavy discounts and some are not. You might want to mention this as it would greatly effect the relative price rating.

-Cliff
 
Mike --

Thanks for doing this test!

Say, shouldn't this be in the Knife Review Forum?
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I do agree with Cliff about the edge. Factory edges often stink -- if I had left the factory edge on my Axis, I would have found it to be a mediocre cutter, instead of arguably the best performer I've ever tested in that size range. On the other hand, it's a lot of work, re-sharpening 7 or 8 thick-edged wear-resistant fixed blades, so I sympathize.

I am also with the crew that is surprised about the edge chipping going on. How hard is spruce exactly? Kinda soft I'd imagine. Keep in mind I tested a 1/8", 2" wide, 18-degree-edged talonite blade on soft wood, and it didn't chip at all. In fact, the very thin edge didn't chip until I started chopping ironwood. Kinda shocking, then, that much thicker-edged knives would chip on soft wood like spruce.


I just read the review very quickly due to excitement, I'll go through it again more slowly.

Joe
 
That's too bad bout the Camillus, didn't think it'd do that bad...

Nice job Mike
 
Spruce is actually fairly hard compared to Pine. As a quantative measurement, I can bite a piece out of a pine 2x4". It is pretty much impossible to do this with spruce, black spruce anyway which is the majority of what we have around here.

Note as well that you need to consider the impact energy and Mike's actual chopping method. He could for example be using very wide swings and thus high speeds combined with violent twists to break the wood out.

The spruce could also be well seasoned etc.

-Cliff
 
And of course, Mike could have gotten tired, blistered, and sore towards the end, possibly causing some of the knives to have a relatively lower score than the ones he chopped first when he was fresh.

Ok, so the review may not pass scientific mustard, but I thought it was still quite good.

Having said that, I also kind of wished Mike had touched up the factory edges as it could cheat some knives out of their potential. Also, it would give us and idea on the ease of sharpening for each of the knives. I too learned not to test the factory edges the hard way.

[This message has been edited by SB (edited 25 October 1999).]
 
I've been waiting for this comparo for a while, Mike, and I thank you and your blisters for the great effort. I'm even more encouraged now to continue to use my INFI Steel Heart even harder, knowing that the original INFI has a measure more performance than the modified INFI. Yikes, I'm starting to believe my Steel Heart is bombproof.
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Don LeHue

The pen is mightier than the sword...outside of arm's reach. Modify radius accordingly for rifle.


 
Thanks for the review Mike, it is a needed benefit, particularly as you have chosen to approach the process. I might add some insight with regard to factory sharpness, as all of EDI'd components are made by others and we sharpen our products as the last step of assembly, just to be sure. Based on our experience, OEM vendors may or may not sharpen the knife. It could go either way depending on the arrangements made between the parties. I know that the Japanese vendors usually provide the product in the box, ready for shipment. If you don't check each unit that goes out for sharpness, assembly etc. you will not catch the occasional odd part or poor operation. As I tell our staff, "if it was easy, a lot more people would be doing it". Thanks again for your service.
 
I did just buy 600 feet of 1" hemp (Manila) rope today. I will test the virgin edges tomorrow. Alrady did a few cuts today with the Busse and the MAD DOG on the virgin edges I had left on the blade near their choils. I even let Spark make a few cuts
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To make things even more fair how about this if Cliff is up to it. I will send him all the knives in the test and he can independently verify the results?

Whadaya say Cliff?

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
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Cliff's point about the negative effect of an unsharpened blade on subsequent tests is well taken, though I appreciate your point that a knife _should_ be sharp out of the box. I unpacked my new Camillus 5684B last week and found the edge to be just as you described. Since I intended to use it instead of make a purely philosophical point, I sharpened it. About 30 seconds on a fine grit oil stone and two swipes with a ceramic rod made it shaving sharp. I shouldn't have had to do that, true, but less than a minute's effort gave me a much more useful knife than the one reflected in the test.
 
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