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So which makers use 80CrV2?
ED:
Rick Marchand
J.W. Bensinger
Daniel Winkler
ED:
Rick Marchand
J.W. Bensinger
Daniel Winkler
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80crv2 vs. 52100 (80crv2 seems almost as good as 3v!)
- Thread starter Blain
- Start date
Yes, 52100 is almost a perfect steel unless it rust so easy and that was quite a big issue...
INFI and 3V may considered as a better overall steel for most people.
IMO most knifemaker wouldn't call 52100 specially difficult to heat treat...
In fact, most air hardening steel are much more complex to HT. You need even more precise temperature control... You also really need surface protection from decarburization since these kind of steel demand higher temp and longer soak time... You high likely need cold treatment to complete it as knife blade application...
Talk about 80CRV2 vs 52100, supposing that both steel has proper heat treated, I will give a nod to 52100 in edge holding and 80CRV2 in toughness.
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All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.
Well...sorta...
rec·tan·gle
ˈrekˌtaNGɡəl/
noun
a plane figure with four straight sides and four right angles, especially one with unequal adjacent sides, in contrast to a square.
No flames...sir.
- Joined
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A fine illustration of a common problem in communication: assuming that a single language is involved.
Churchill said the UK and US were "two great peoples divided by a common language." The same is apparently the case as between the language of mathematics and plain English.
In mathematics:
You are undoubtedly correct about the common understanding of "rectangle" and "square."
Churchill said the UK and US were "two great peoples divided by a common language." The same is apparently the case as between the language of mathematics and plain English.
In mathematics:
You are undoubtedly correct about the common understanding of "rectangle" and "square."
james terrio
Sharpest Knife in the Light Socket
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The toughness is similar (very high), due to similar structure (which is due to the same basic chemistry). 3V will have significantly better wear-resistance and corrosion-resistance, from much higher amounts of chrome, vanadium and moly. For people that don't mind sharpening a little more often, and don't care much about a little staining, 80CRV2 is absolutely comparable to 3V... the upshot is they can both make very tough knives that perform very well.
It's reasonable to describe it as 1080 < 1084 < 80CRV2 < CPM-3V in all pertinent areas. Again, the only real difference is increasing amounts of alloying elements.
The toughness is similar (very high), due to similar structure (which is due to the same basic chemistry). 3V will have significantly better wear-resistance and corrosion-resistance, from much higher amounts of chrome, vanadium and moly. For people that don't mind sharpening a little more often, and don't care much about a little staining, 80CRV2 is absolutely comparable to 3V... the upshot is they can both make very tough knives that perform very well.
It's reasonable to describe it as 1080 < 1084 < 80CRV2 < CPM-3V in all pertinent areas. Again, the only real difference is increasing amounts of alloying elements.
+1
I ever had a conversation to Danial Winkler about 80CRV2 and CPM3V which both are his current use steel.
He said that both are very comparable in edge retention but 80CRV2 will be easier to sharpen while 3V has the edge on lateral strength and corrosion resistance.
Blain
Gold Member
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- May 7, 2004
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- 152
Yeah, that's why I am such a big fan of 80crv2 and consider it "3v-light". You have a steel that is almost as tough as 3v, with similar wear resistance that is easier to sharpen. You get 95% of the performance of 3v (corrosion resistance aside) in a steel that is much cheaper, and a lot easier to heat treat and work.
Cobalt
Platinum Member
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Seems comparable to these other steels. Properties should be very similar.
80CrV2
C(％
0.75-0.84
Si(򟘲.15-0.35
Mn(򟘲.15-0.35
P(򟘲.025
S(％ 0.020
Cr(％ 0.40-0.70
Ni(％Max 0.25
V(%)0.10-0.20
L6
C - 0.7
Mn - 0.6
Si - 0.25
Cr - 0.7
Ni - 1.4
52100
C 0.980 - 1.10
Cr 1.30 - 1.60
Mn 0.250 - 0.450
Si 0.150 - 0.300
S ≤ 0.0250
P ≤ 0.0250
O-1
C - 0.85-1
Si - 0.1 - 0.5
Mn - 1 - 1.4
Cr - 0.4 - 0.7
V - 0.3
W - 0.4- 0 .6
W1
C - 0.95-1.05
Mn - 0.3-0.4
Si - 0.1-0.25
Cr - 0.15
Mo - 0.1
W - 0.15
V - 0.1
P - 0.025
S - 0.025
80CrV2
C(％
0.75-0.84 Si(％
0.15-0.35 Mn(％
0.15-0.35 P(％
0.025 S(％
0.020 Cr(％
0.40-0.70 Ni(％
Max 0.25 V(%)0.10-0.20
L6
C - 0.7
Mn - 0.6
Si - 0.25
Cr - 0.7
Ni - 1.4
52100
C 0.980 - 1.10
Cr 1.30 - 1.60
Mn 0.250 - 0.450
Si 0.150 - 0.300
S ≤ 0.0250
P ≤ 0.0250
O-1
C - 0.85-1
Si - 0.1 - 0.5
Mn - 1 - 1.4
Cr - 0.4 - 0.7
V - 0.3
W - 0.4- 0 .6
W1
C - 0.95-1.05
Mn - 0.3-0.4
Si - 0.1-0.25
Cr - 0.15
Mo - 0.1
W - 0.15
V - 0.1
P - 0.025
S - 0.025
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I've been using 80CRV2 for while. It's very tough and holds and edge better than 5160. I have used it for everything from small fixed blades to large choppers. It's probably my favorite carbon steel right now.
I generally only use 52100 for kitchen knives, so I can't really comment on the durability compared to 80CRV2.
I generally only use 52100 for kitchen knives, so I can't really comment on the durability compared to 80CRV2.
jdm61
itinerant metal pounder
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I might have to disagree with you re W2 because in blades the size/thickness that you are talking about, it tends to "selectively harden" on it own. maybe 5 or 6 years ago, an member of BFC had MS Bailey Bradshaw make him a thorough hardened katana for competition cutting. the reason was that he wanted a tough sword that would not break in he case of a mishit, but one that would also not bend and take a set like ones selectively hardened or like traditional nihonto for that matter.
Edit. After reading again, you are not selectively hardening, but selectively TEMPERING, right? The old "blue back" trick. Also, if yo are looking for toughness, you might want play around with 52100 at 1475F.
Edit. After reading again, you are not selectively hardening, but selectively TEMPERING, right? The old "blue back" trick. Also, if yo are looking for toughness, you might want play around with 52100 at 1475F.
This is a waki made of 52100 with 6 step normalizing in precise digital control gas oven, double quench at 1500F in canola oil and triple temper at 400F. Gas torched to draw back the spine 2 time.
0.014" thick behind the edge. Can easily chopped through any 2x4 with zero damage.
We have done numerous test with 52100 to find the most suitable heat treat protocol to each of blade application in our use.
Simple to low-alloy carbon steel like 52100, O1, W2, 5160, L6 etc. with no selective hardening would have much higher risk to fail when it come to high impact application like wood wakizashi or very large camp, Those selective hardening/tempering also vastly improve shock absorption.
The reason for all of this are pretty simple metallurgy... 950F tempered martensite of these steel are much tougher, resilient and softer than 400F tempered martensite.
Pearlite structure also the same story but not as strong as spring tempered martensite.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El-CWPcjIJs
Blain
Gold Member
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- May 7, 2004
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- 152
What is the main difference between selectively hardening and selectively tempering, and which one is better?
Selective hardening only hardens the edge. The spine come out of the quench soft, or never gets quenched. Selective tempering starts with a fully quenched blade and tempers the spine different fly from the edge. Which one is better depends on who you ask, who made the blades and what you want them to do.
this have you ever spoke to mormons on depth?
they have the exact same language as say a southern baptist but everything means something different.
you might ask the nice mormon young guy what hes up to and he might tell you hes going to seminary.
to most christians that means hes dedicated his studies to becoming a pastor or priest and perhaps attained acceptance to a graduate or pre grad religious studies institution.
when in fact seminary is more akin to a intensive bible study.
not judging the two against one another i just always think of that example.
You are right, shallow hardening steel like W2 or 1095 when given thick enough section it may have selective hardening on it own.
In my country, it is very common among knivemakers to draw back the spine even it medium size blade... unless they to the clay hardening thought.
@Blain
Selective hardening is to harden the certain part of the blade around the cutting edge. Mostly used on low alloy carbon steel.
There are certain ways to do it such as ;
-Clay hardening, by using heat resistance clay to coat the spine of the blade or any area that want to be softer/tougher.. When austenitizing (use high heat in order to harden) and quench, the area under the clay won't cooling fast enough to pass the pearlite nose and majority of the structure would go back to pearlite while you have martensite cutting edge.
-Edge quenching, by austenitizing the whole blade but quench only the edge, quite similar structure as above
-Edge acetylene torching, by austenitizing only the edge very fast before the spine get hot enough... kind of similar structure as above.
Selective tempering is to harden to whole blade and after you do the regular tempering, you temper the spine of the blade again to the higher degree while soaking the cutting edge in the water to encumber the heat. Then you have cutting edge which are tempered martensite and spine of the blade that are even more tempered martensite.
Which one is better? tempered martensite are stronger, springier and tougher than pearlite... But won't get the nice harden line with this method thought.
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Blain
Gold Member
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- May 7, 2004
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- 152
That's interesting. I had heard that deferentially heat treated was more difficult to do and resulted in a "tougher" blade than just tempering the spine back with a torch.