80crv2 vs. 52100 (80crv2 seems almost as good as 3v!)

Blain said:
Under which circumstances would deferentially heat treating be better?
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When you can talk someone into paying extra for it.

I am of the opinion that making a blade that will bend a lot and stay bent, instead of bend a bit less and come back nearly true under the same amount of pressure, is vastly over-rated. If you're feeling geeky, look up "Young's Modulus of Elasticity" for an explanation of why this happens.

The only time a maker really needs to employ differential hardening is when they want to display a hamon or temper line. Hamons can be very beautiful and showcase additional skill on the part of the person doing the heat-treatment. Example (maker unknown):

hamon.jpg
 
Major advantage of differential hardening (mostly by clay) over selective tempering is the beautiful harden line... Sure you will have to pay more for it just like what James said.

Most of ABS JS bend test blade are 5160 with spring tempering at the spine (draw back)... if that will tell you something.

In fact the JS bending test is quite easy if you know what you are doing and having good equipment... therefore in most case, an experienced maker would prefer the easiest, most effective route when it come to destructive test.
 
Its mostly a matter of what the maker is best at and what steels they use. Higher alloy steels are more difficult if not impossible to differentially heat treat, so differential tempering is the more feasible option. On the other hand, there are some advantages to having a spine and edge made of the same microstructure, even if the spine was softened with a torch. My perception is that differential tempering g is more difficult to do consistently, but someone who's practiced it would think different. There are also some makers that combine both in some ways.
 
Just curious how the tempered blade would be stronger. I was under the impression that both could bend substantially far before having an issue. The difference being that the tempered blade would simply snap in two when past a certain point, where as the deferentially heat treated one would simply take a set and be bent at that same point, but you could hammer it back into shape.

Is my understanding incorrect?
 
They're both going to break at the same level of stress... it's just a matter of how they perform up to that point. A blade with a soft back will take a set before it breaks, a fully-hardened blade will come back to straight or nearly straight after being subjected to the same pressure.

Why anyone would want a bent knife rather than a straight one has never been clear to me.
 
You way overthinking on these subject...

The hard edge will far snapped before whether selective tempered spine or differential hardening spine failed.


The reason why spring tempered spine are stronger because it was tempered martensite structure while differential hardening was mainly pearlite structure depending on alloy content.


Here is the pic of clay hardening W1 permanently bend in prying test.
The edge was already broke but the soft spine still adhered. The selective tempering will do the same but require higher force to bend it.

 
Blain said:
Just curious how the tempered blade would be stronger. I was under the impression that both could bend substantially far before having an issue. The difference being that the tempered blade would simply snap in two when past a certain point, where as the deferentially heat treated one would simply take a set and be bent at that same point, but you could hammer it back into shape.

Is my understanding incorrect?
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Its...complicated. There is a much broader range of properties possible with selective tempering, provided you have the temperature control to take advantage.
 
shqxk said:
You way overthinking on these subject...

The hard edge will far snapped before whether selective tempered spine or differential hardening spine failed.


The reason why spring tempered spine are stronger because it was tempered martensite structure while differential hardening was mainly pearlite structure depending on alloy content.


Here is the pic of clay hardening W1 permanently bend in prying test.
The edge was already broke but the soft spine still adhered. The selective tempering will do the same but require higher force to bend it.

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I see you're testing the 0180. How do you like it?
 
bodog said:
I see you're testing the 0180. How do you like it?
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The handle was too blocky and quite uncomfortable. The big torx screw that unfortunate crop out of the handle also make it even worse.

The weight balance is poor since the handle is way too heavy. The sheath is suck...


The grind and overall design of the blade are sure not the best cutter but does acceptable since it promoted as hard use stuff.

At all events, the steel is just amazing... I have do plenty of stupid things with the knife and I will say edge holding is just superb, abundantly strong and one of the toughest steel I have ever test.
 
shqxk said:
The handle was too blocky and quite uncomfortable. The big torx screw that unfortunate crop out of the handle also make it even worse.

The weight balance is poor since the handle is way too heavy. The sheath is suck...


The grind and overall design of the blade are sure not the best cutter but does acceptable since it promoted as hard use stuff.

At all events, the steel is just amazing... I have do plenty of stupid things with the knife and I will say edge holding is just superb, abundantly strong and one of the toughest steel I have ever test.
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I felt exactly the same way. Exactly.
 
I am pretty sure Luong (bluntcut) is away on a trip. I would love for him to chime in here. That Man is pretty crafty with 52100.
Russ
 
mycough said:
I am pretty sure Luong (bluntcut) is away on a trip. I would love for him to chime in here. That Man is pretty crafty with 52100.
Russ
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There should be some independent tests of bluntcut's knives here within the next couple of weeks. 52100, CruForgeV, 1095, M2, and W2 will be tested.
 
bodog said:
There should be some independent tests of bluntcut's knives here within the next couple of weeks. 52100, CruForgeV, 1095, M2, and W2 will be tested.
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He also works with 80crv2, would be interesting to test that as well, or at least hear about his experience with it.

Supposedly he can obtain a grain structure of 15 with 52100, which is better than Busse can do and on par with Ed Fowler!
 
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Blain said:
He also works with 80crv2, would be interesting to test that as well, or at least hear about his experience with it.

Supposedly he can obtain a grain structure of 15 with 52100, which is better than Busse can do and on par with Ed Fowler!
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With all respect to Ed Fowler, how can you really believe that what ever he do with his legendary(?) triple quench 52100 are any comparable to the modern day procedure which come with far more advance metallurgy....

Multiple quench does help on grain refinement but when it go too far it just a waste...

Remember that the more of heat cycle... it mean more decarburization, MUCH more chance of crack/distortion, you also will need even faster quench media due to lower hardenability which will rise even higher risk of distortion... and it will certainly demand much more resource...

I bet no one will ever notice a different between proper thermal cycle normalizing with double quench 52100 to a special one that done with a hundred of step normalizing + a hundred of quench....

only thing you will definitely notice is the difference on price...
 
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Thomas Linton said:
Sorry. Not sure what "honor" has to do with it. I merely quoted the poster of the linked information.
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I'm not sure why you decided to quote from one link and exclude from the other? Let me help you out with that.

So my ht version 1.0 80CrV2 chopper at 59.5rc; 0.022" edge thick - CharpyC (CC) ~60 ft.lbs. End up with large rippled edge after the test.
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