80CrV2

I would not attempt a 1575F extended soak without a salt pot. My kiln is accurate but it doesn't take much to push things over the edge when you are riding the line. I'm sure Peters has a handle on it. I prefer to play it on the conservative side with multiple thermal cycles and a final quench at a medium austenitizing temperate.
 
Rick when you get to the last cycle of 1500, do you soak or just quench once you reach 1500?
Scott
 
A short soak... maybe 3-5 minutes. Please keep in mind that the soak is short because I am thermal-cycling , before hand. If you don't want to thermal-cycle, go for the longer soak. Aldo's steel is great but for my own peacce of mind, I like to make sure all those spheroids are put into solution and the grain is uniform. I see it as wiping the slate clean.
 
I going to try a couple of methods. Yours sounds good. Maybe with Peters info, I'll try 1550 for 30 mins and see what develops. BTW, the 80CrV2 I'll be using is from Aldo.
Scott
 
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Peters' regime sounds as if they are squeezing every bit out of the steel and that is great. I like to do my heat treat in-house and have opted not to ride the line. You should send a piece to them and test the performance along with a few other recipes.
 
Rick Marchand said:
Peters' regime sounds as if they are squeezing every bit out of the steel and that is great. I like to do my heat treat in-house and have opted not to ride the line. You should send a piece to them and test the performance along with a few other recipes.
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Good advice, thanks
Scott
 
Haha remember that. New York custom knife show. :thumbup:
Scott
 
RX-79G said:
Carbides! Roger. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Larger carbides can equal better wear resistance.

I've been thinking about the Peter's heat treat, and since this steel is used for tougher applications, it makes sense. Not many people are using this steel for kitchen slicers. I think Stuart did one, but it's at to best in tough applications.
 
Willie71 said:
Larger carbides can equal better wear resistance.

I've been thinking about the Peter's heat treat, and since this steel is used for tougher applications, it makes sense. Not many people are using this steel for kitchen slicers. I think Stuart did one, but it's at to best in tough applications.
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It is being used for woodworking knives with fairly fine edge angles.

But large carbides, like large grain, do not make steel tougher. Small carbides will give the edge more resistance to chopping.
 
good lord here we go again with script time out ....testing

If you had access to a hardness tester, that is the only real way to dial in a heat treat. I don't have one....really wish I did. Just to clarify a comment I made earlier about 400f tempers.....I'm not saying that 400f gives me 61 in my shop. 400f in my shop, no matter the carbon steel, still skates a file easily. Which tells me I am getting max hardness out of the quench. Files are generally in the 62-63 ballpark, and 400f tempers the file will still skate, so I'm assuming I'm getting 62-63 at 400f. I have to go to 430f usually to get a file to bite.

Just because Brad does it one way, doesn't mean it is THE way to do it. You have to remember, they don't normalize and then thermal cycle, as far as I know. They simply do a hardening procedure. On heavily spheroidized steels, without the normalizing/thermal cycling, then the higher heat is needed....but not optimal. And because they are using a high heat (1575 according to reports as given in this thread), they are employing cryo to re-gain the lost HRC point or two. Cryo is not needed for a steel like 80CrV2. If you're seeing RC gains with such a simple steel as 80CrV2 (also called 1080+) by cryo, you should re-tweak your hardening procedure. If you had a hardness tester, you could make a few coupons to test this. All of this after the normalizing and subsequent "grain refining"....I would never only austenitize these coarse spheroidized steels. Take a coupon and harden at 1450, check the hardness. Do this with another coupon at 1475, another at 1500, another at 1525, another at 1550, another at 1575. What you will notice is the RC will rise, peak at a certain temp, then drop off again. The peak temp is where you should be austenitizing, and that will be around the 1500f mark, give or take. 1550 and 1575, I would expect an RC drop at those temps, and then yes....you'd need the sub zero or cryo to bring the RC back up again.
 
Warren is correct, I made a few Santokus out of 1080+ when I first got into this gig. Not the "ideal" steel choice for a kitchen knife, but it is a eutectoid steel, perfect for a beginner. It is 1080 with a touch of alloying to help hardenability (Cr) and pin grain boundaries (V). Some 80CrV2 has Nickel in it, which aids in overall toughness.
 
higher temperature = smaller carbide & grain growth(beyond certain temp per composition)
 
samuraistuart said:
good lord here we go again with script time out ....testing

If you had access to a hardness tester, that is the only real way to dial in a heat treat. I don't have one....really wish I did. Just to clarify a comment I made earlier about 400f tempers.....I'm not saying that 400f gives me 61 in my shop. 400f in my shop, no matter the carbon steel, still skates a file easily. Which tells me I am getting max hardness out of the quench. Files are generally in the 62-63 ballpark, and 400f tempers the file will still skate, so I'm assuming I'm getting 62-63 at 400f. I have to go to 430f usually to get a file to bite.

Just because Brad does it one way, doesn't mean it is THE way to do it. You have to remember, they don't normalize and then thermal cycle, as far as I know. They simply do a hardening procedure. On heavily spheroidized steels, without the normalizing/thermal cycling, then the higher heat is needed....but not optimal. And because they are using a high heat (1575 according to reports as given in this thread), they are employing cryo to re-gain the lost HRC point or two. Cryo is not needed for a steel like 80CrV2. If you're seeing RC gains with such a simple steel as 80CrV2 (also called 1080+) by cryo, you should re-tweak your hardening procedure. If you had a hardness tester, you could make a few coupons to test this. All of this after the normalizing and subsequent "grain refining"....I would never only austenitize these coarse spheroidized steels. Take a coupon and harden at 1450, check the hardness. Do this with another coupon at 1475, another at 1500, another at 1525, another at 1550, another at 1575. What you will notice is the RC will rise, peak at a certain temp, then drop off again. The peak temp is where you should be austenitizing, and that will be around the 1500f mark, give or take. 1550 and 1575, I would expect an RC drop at those temps, and then yes....you'd need the sub zero or cryo to bring the RC back up again.
Click to expand...

This is true for anybody. I plan to try different methods. That's the fun part about knifemaking. Find what works best for you.
Scott
 
^ stated in Aust temp.

Temper temp = go from low to high carbon diffusion = fine to coarsen carbides.
RX-79G said:
Raising the temp makes grain and carbides smaller? Isn't that the opposite of what was said previously?
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samuraistuart said:
Warren is correct, I made a few Santokus out of 1080+ when I first got into this gig. Not the "ideal" steel choice for a kitchen knife, but it is a eutectoid steel, perfect for a beginner. It is 1080 with a touch of alloying to help hardenability (Cr) and pin grain boundaries (V). Some 80CrV2 has Nickel in it, which aids in overall toughness.
Click to expand...

Isn't this like calling 5160 1060 with a dash of salt? 52100, W2, L6 and 80CrV2 are all "low alloy". While 1080 needs zero soak time, the alloying elements in 80CrV2 require them, and you don't need an ultra fast quench.


The name "1080+" is just something a knifemaking supplier came up with because too many customers mis-took "80CrV2" as being a Chinese steel.
 
bluntcut said:
^ stated in Aust temp.

Temper temp = go from low to high carbon diffusion = fine to coarsen carbides.
Click to expand...

Yes, I had thought that higher Aust temps cause larger carbides and grain to form. That's what Willie was saying and I though Rick, too.

You seem to be saying the opposite: that higher Aust temps make the carbides smaller.
 
RX-79G said:
Isn't this like calling 5160 1060 with a dash of salt? 52100, W2, L6 and 80CrV2 are all "low alloy". While 1080 needs zero soak time, the alloying elements in 80CrV2 require them, and you don't need an ultra fast quench.


The name "1080+" is just something a knifemaking supplier came up with because too many customers mis-took "80CrV2" as being a Chinese steel.
Click to expand...
I would refer to 80CRV2 as "5160 on steroids".
 
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