8cr13mov in my spyderco tenacious sucks....compared to vg10 and 154cm ......

[THG]

or, THG said, "Japan . . . with a better steel."


Straw men. They are thick in the air tonight.

Whatever. Maybe he happened to get a great example of the Tenacious - I don't know. All I know is:

1. None of mine or the ones I've seen have matched the Manix 2, to say the least.
2. Chinese knives don't use any other steel than 8Cr13MoV, at best, and this happens to be exactly what the subject of this thread is (which, as you adequately put, is why I mentioned Japan/US)
3. Every time I suggest that they should produce a knife in America, I'm called a chauvinist or something. I don't have time for this crap.

 

[Thomas Linton]

To answer the question now gone, if you spend a lot of energy looking for something that offends you, you WILL find it.

 

[eccvets]

if you dont like the 8cr13mov, sell those knifes or give them away and don't buy any more of them. seems like an easy fix. no need to give yourself a heartattack over something as trivial as this. It's not like any of those knifes cost you more then 50 bucks. most probally cost half that amount!

how sharp do you get your knifes (slicing printer paper? push cut printer paper? shave hair off arm? push cut newsprint? shaving facial hair? wittling free hanging hair? slicing tp? push cutting tp?)? Whats your definition of loosing its edge? is the edge rolling on you? Chipping?

for me, I get my 8cr13mov edge (Byrd cara cara 2) to wittling free hanging hair and slicing tp cleanly sharp and after I use it to cut things (lots of paper, some cardboard, thicker plastics, nylon rope, some wood), I notice that it did loose its edge but it hasn't really gone below being able to still push cut newsprint which is considered sharp by most. I sharpen it back up after and it only needs just a bit of work to get it back to where it was.

All of my VG 10 blades are serrated and I suck at sharpening serrated edges so I don't really use them very much myself so I'm not sure how it stacks up to 8cr13mov. it is better steel and cost a crap load more so I'm not suprised that it last longer.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I don't often move threads into General Knife Delivery, but this one didn't belong in Maintenance. It is much more concerned with steel than with sharpening.

One word of warning: any more political or personal sparring and I will simply close the thread. Discuss the knives, not each other.

 

[Poez]

I wish some knives were made with honest carbon steel instead of cheap stainless. If they want to save money, why not to do it this way. Why Spyderco does not produce a single knife with carbon steel blade? Or am I wrong?

 

[seelow123]

I bought a Red Skyline for $25, it comes in 14C28N and feels pretty super:thumbup:.

Smartass I do like 14c28n a lot more than 8cr13mov, takes a super-fine edge

Whatever. Maybe he happened to get a great example of the Tenacious - I don't know. All I know is:

1. None of mine or the ones I've seen have matched the Manix 2, to say the least.
2. Chinese knives don't use any other steel than 8Cr13MoV, at best, and this happens to be exactly what the subject of this thread is (which, as you adequately put, is why I mentioned Japan/US)
3. Every time I suggest that they should produce a knife in America, I'm called a chauvinist or something. I don't have time for this crap.

I totally agree. I have owned a tenacious and a persistence and neither have been up to par with any of my golden made spydies.

It seems that whenever someone mentions that there is something they don't like about their knife that HAPPENS to be made in china, people turn it into some huge argument.

 

[Steel_Addiction]

I wish some knives were made with honest carbon steel instead of cheap stainless. If they want to save money, why not to do it this way. Why Spyderco does not produce a single knife with carbon steel blade? Or am I wrong?

There are quite a few knives that have carbon steel, manix 2 sprint m4, military m4, gayle bradley m4

 

[knarfeng]

Tested my spyderco tenacious on various cardboard and wood.....its got nice convex edge but knife loses its sharpness much faster than bm154cm or vg10......paying extra money is worth it ....i wish tenacious had vg10 blade....this chinese steel is ok but I dont liker it at all! Also 154cm and vg10 take much sharper edge much easier.........quality of steel is evident for sure!!!!!!!!!!

Spyderco has stated that the edge retention of 8Cr13MoV is similar to that of AUS8.
I've done side by side manila rope cutting with those and others, and I reached the same conclusion. These alloys do not form significant amounts of carbides and as such, they take a fine edge, but don't hold it as long as alloys that form a lot of carbides. Those carbide forming alloys include 440C, VG10, and 154CM, and they hold an edge longer than 8Cr13MoV or AUS8.

But changing alloys would increase the cost of the knife.

The alloy is what it is. And what it is, is pretty darn good for the price and the amount of work needed sharpen it when you get it home. It should be noted that, if you choose an alloy with improved edge retention, you increase the manufacturing cost as well as the material cost. I've tried 9CrMoVCo, another Chinese alloy with superior edge retention compared to 8Cr13MoV and even moving to that would increase the cost of the knife.

 

[knarfeng]

There are quite a few knives that have carbon steel, manix 2 sprint m4, military m4, gayle bradley m4

Those are CPM M4, which is about as far away from being carbon steel as 154CM is.

 

[seelow123]

Nevermind.....

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

No one has mentioned it but if you are losing an edge that quickly then maybe you have a wire edge you aren't getting rid of. I find the cheaper, softer steels harder to sharpen and many times a wire edge makes things difficult which I rarely have happen with harder, more alloyed steels.

 

[boki_zca]

some pple here are just weird lol..................its just that most chinese knives suck compared to us/japanese made blades....thats plain truth.Buck 420hc is just superb compared to 8cr13mov in every way!!!thats my experience.

 

[knarfeng]

No one has mentioned it but if you are losing an edge that quickly then maybe you have a wire edge you aren't getting rid of. I find the cheaper, softer steels harder to sharpen and many times a wire edge makes things difficult which I rarely have happen with harder, more alloyed steels.

He might have a wire edge, but not because the steel is soft.

last time I checked, Chinese Spydercos in 8Cr13MoV were running anywhere from 58 to 60HRC. Mine is 59.4. That ain't soft.

 

[michaelm466]

I wish some knives were made with honest carbon steel instead of cheap stainless. If they want to save money, why not to do it this way. Why Spyderco does not produce a single knife with carbon steel blade? Or am I wrong?

Caly 3.5 Super Blue, O1 Bushcraft Fixed blade, 52100 Mule, Super Blue Mule. I would guess that many non-knife people buying less expensive knives, also don't want to have to worry about maintenance, wouldn't maintain it like us knife knuts therefor the stainless.

 

[cziv]

I totally agree. I have owned a tenacious and a persistence and neither have been up to par with any of my golden made spydies.

It seems that whenever someone mentions that there is something they don't like about their knife that HAPPENS to be made in china, people turn it into some huge argument.

I think it's just a knee jerk reaction similar to when I was a boy and everything was made in Japan and considered junk - which it wasn't. Japanese products are world class, in most cases.

I hate to bring this up but I have to. My (2) $8.95 plus one shipping charge package that arrived from China with (2) Sanrenmu 710s was worth far more than I paid for the order. After a year of near daily use and resharpenings, my 710s are absolutely rock solid. The lock bars and detent are solid (not hard, sticky, or worn) and lockup at the same place as a year ago.

I purchased an American made Kershaw Random Leek, framelock with steel handles and S30V and it's just a bit older. It's already got a "lot" of up and down play because the S30V blade tang wore out the face of the lock bar.

It's given me a lot of use, but hey 18 months or so, even with 10 openings a day on average and almost 10 times the price, should have done a lot better job. The Chinese SRM 710s are by far exceeding the quality and performance of that pricey little Random Leek.

 

[ono724]

some pple here are just weird lol..................its just that most chinese knives suck compared to us/japanese made blades....thats plain truth.Buck 420hc is just superb compared to 8cr13mov in every way!!!thats my experience.

So, just to clarify..are you saying Chinese knives suck, or Chinese steel?

I have a Chinese made Kershaw Crown which has superb F&F (Doesn't suck at all) and the steel (8Cr13MoV) takes a superb edge with very little work and holds up well to light cutting chores. I notched out some treated lumber the other day with it and it could still shave arm hair. In my book, that's pretty decent.

I think Phil has a point saying that Chinese made knives aren't what they used to be. At least not with good quality control/assurance that some companies maintain.

Just my .02

 

[Thomas Linton]

If the "point" is that the quality of Chinese-made knives has declined, that is not my experience - or Spyderco's I gather.

In any event, if we are willing to buy inferior products, someone will make them somewhere. The Yugo was not made in China. The chip sets in my PC were.

 

[knarfeng]

Would you folks just drop it about Chinese vs. anything else?

Just farkeling drop it.

The original post was about the alloy. Lets just talk about that.

 

[ono724]

Would you folks just drop it about Chinese vs. anything else?

Just farkeling drop it.

The original post was about the alloy. Lets just talk about that.

I would totally agree with you, except for the OP making the blanket statement "its just that most chinese knives suck compared to us/japanese made blades"

 

[ono724]

If the "point" is that the quality of Chinese-made knives has declined, that is not my experience - or Spyderco's I gather.

In any event, if we are willing to buy inferior products, someone will make them somewhere. The Yugo was not made in China. The chip sets in my PC were.

Thomas, I believe Phils point was that Chinese products made with good quality control/assurance in place (such as Spyderco's) can be as good as a product made anywhere else.

Maybe I'm wrong, if so, disregard the post