9cr18mo initial impression

Yablanowitz, thank you for your advice. Please allow me one more effort to express my point.

Toyota makes cars in China and the US. They make cheap cars and expensive cars. I would expect the same quality from a cheap Chinese Toyota as an expensive US Toyota because Toyota’s reputation and success (world’s largest auto maker I believe) were made on quality control.

If the Mule Team program is not a revenue stream for Sypderco, but a break-even proposition and we have a usable blade at a good price in return for beta testing steel for them, maybe quality control doesn’t matter. If they are making a profit, I expect Spyderco level quality regardless of price or county of origin.

Thanks for reading.
 
Here's a couple of mules, S90V and ZDP-189. The picture is off a scanner and it accentuates the grind marks. These aren't seconds, so you can judge relative quality for yourself with your 9Cr18Mo. The important things are the steel and the heat treat. You could always polish them up yourself if you want.

 
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undara12 said:
If the Mule Team program is not a revenue stream for Sypderco, but a break-even proposition and we have a usable blade at a good price in return for beta testing steel for them, maybe quality control doesn’t matter. If they are making a profit, I expect Spyderco level quality regardless of price or county of origin.
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A couple of comments here. First, I don't think your quality control analogy applies the way you suggest here. No one would expect a bottom-range Toyota to have the same F&F (fit & finish, for the earlier poster) as a top-range Toyota. I would expect them to run for the same number of miles and have the same degree of reliabilty - but panel fit, selection of plastics for the interior, etc. will be different. If you buy a Lexus, you expect a Lexus. If you buy a Yaris, you get a great and reliable vehicle, but it isn't a Lexus. I think that is what is going on here, more or less. The Mules are not intended to be flagship, premium, finished products like an S90V Military, for example.

Second, I think your observation about "beta testing" is about right. These were explicitly conceived, designed and sold to put unusual or exotic steels in the hands of users so that the users could provide feedback to Spyderco. What other knife company has done anything like this? We should be heaping praise and thanks on Spyderco for this truly innovative program, not heaping scorn and complaints on them. :(
 
My MT5 just arrived, I find no blems or warpages. But I noticed as soon as I picked it up that it's "heavier" than my other Mules.

So I grabbed a couple of the others and noticed my #5 is "Thicker", especially toward the tip. While I haven't grabbed the dial calipers or scale (yet), I can visually see the difference in heft.

Has anyone else seen/felt this? Is it just quality control letting some of these go "Fat" or was it a nod toward some of the other Mules breaking? Hmmmm.....:confused:
 
I thought the same thing so I weighed it.. slightly more than my zdp, and I measured the tang with calipers, its slightly thicker (which would account for the weight difference) but the thickness is even all the way down the tang.
 
OK,
So, if it's thicker on all (or most) of MT5's, is it just the different tolerance that Sal gave to the Chinese or is it poor QC on their part?

I guess I asking, is it on purpose or accidental.

Doesn't make MT5 "bad", but it does affect how it will test in some respects against the "Thinner" previous 4 blades.
 
They've given you the ability to thin their blade down to exactly the same size as the knife you want to compare it too. It's not a defect, its a feature ;)
 
I've got handles on mine. I didn't even notice the minor warping until I was fitting the scales. I'd guess 0.050" or so, I didn't measure. It looks and works great with the new scales.

F&F on both was everything I expect from a Mule. I'd much rather get a nice usable knife cheap than pay extra for a nice finish since I'm going to beat the crap out of them anyway. Since that's the whole purpose of the program, I think the finish is perfect.

I also thought that my MT05s were slightly thicker than the others. After I reprofiled to 20 degrees included, the bevels were a little wider.

Gordon

dl351 said:
I have a similar opinion. Grind is not as clean as my 52100, it has those lines (which don't bother me), and the tang is slightly warped. I'm pleased, though. I didn't expect as much from this Mule. As for the tang, once I clamp it between some scales with epoxy on them, it'll be fine. Alright, now who has put handles on them?
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Hi Undara,

Sorry that you are disappointed with the "quality" of the 9Cr18Mo Mule. You could probably send it back and get it replaced, but they will all likely be the same. I imagine that you could get a refund?

The Mules are made in the country that makes the steel. the steel in this case is still experimental. No one in China has worked with it before so I'm sure there will be a learning curve. Making all of them them exactly to the same tolerances would be difficult, especially with new steels and different makers. We felt our tolerances were close considering the purpose of the project.

We felt we were doing well to be able to get the steel from the foundry and be able to get a maker to make the mule team pieces at such a low quantity. I doubt there was much profit for the foundry or the maker, more a favor to us. Perhaps hope of future business.

Our Mule team pieces are created long in advance of delivery. We already have the next one on the shelf ready to ship. At this time, we're trying to decide what steel to use for the next few Mule Teams. A steel that the "steel-heads" would enjoy testing, the foundry will sell us a small quantity and there is maker that is willing to make the model.

Many of the steels are USA made which means making them in Golden, so production scheduling must be handled. Each steel has different characteristics in manufacturing, so "quick learning curves" are necessary. We don't get the option of using the same steel over a long peiod of time, since they're all short runs.

Frankly, I'm surprised at the number of complaints. The project is "getting to try different exotic materials for blades". The other activities they are being used for such as making kits, are just side benefits of the project.

I don't think the steel-heads are complaining. I believe they appreciate our efforts to do this project and they know enough about steel and manufacturing to guess the difficulty involved. Their interest is also "in the stuff" and not in the fit & finish. If I am wrong in this, then we're pissin' in the wind and should probably stop.

Please try to understand the function of the project.

sal
 
Sal,

Please don't stop the mule team. Most of us are very appreciative for the opportunity to try these steels in an inexpensive way, coming from a great company.

I agree, there are a lot of complaints but they seem to be coming from people less familiar with the project and who (most likely) don't understand all that really goes into this project and what its really for.

The steel-heads are happy :)

P.S. Whats the next steel? :D
 
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I have always seen the mule project as a test bed. Sell'em to us cheap, let us beat the hell out of them and provide feedback.
But it looks like it's turned to "My tang is 1/10000th of an inch off and what are these lines on my blade?".

I guess this project has transormed into something else according to the people on here?
 
My noticing the obvious difference in thickness wasn't a "complaint", merely asking if my MT5 was a One-Off or if the tolerances had changed from the previous four Mules.

Being "Steel-Heads" I think many of us notice the little things that might affect one blade from the next more than casual knife buyers.

If I snap the blade of MT4 doing the same project as MT5, is it because it's the kind of steel or is it the blade thickness? That was why I asked others about their MT5's. Have worked in R&D and I try to keep my test pieces in one-plane of change at a time, so I can tell what/why it failed.

I have absolutely no complaints with my MT5, or any of the previous 4 and I thank Sal & crew for doing what no other knife manufacturer would ever attempt and hope he continues this project :thumbup:
 
Thank you Sal for everything you and your company do. I love the mule project and hope it continues.
 
Sal,

Don't stop the Mule team. I've never paid much attention to it until today, reading this thread. Now I'm psyched! The ability to play around with new steels, a bit of a DIY factor (and not too much that I'd be intimidated), frequent changing of steel, and all for a bargain price? Who cares if a few are duds, it would be cool just to be part of the learning process.
 
Buffalohump said:
Everyone loves S90V - including me - so why don't they make more knives with it? :confused:
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NO KIDDING!!!!!

I'd buy another Millie in S90V and one in CPM M-4 in a heartbeat.

Hell, I'm starting to regret not getting second mules in those steels!

Many of us really like the very best, and we're willing to pay for it! :thumbup:
 
Anyone test the corrosion resistance of this steel? I know it's supposed to be high carbon, just kinda curious as to how it performs in that regards.

Got both of mine yesterday, trying to figure out how to wrap the handles right now :P The curved butt of the tang really wants to let the cord slide right off...

Really bummed I missed out on some of the earlier Mules, didn't find out about this whole project until recently, but these knives came hair popping sharp, we'll see how they do. :)
 
goodeyesniper said:
Got both of mine yesterday, trying to figure out how to wrap the handles right now :P The curved butt of the tang really wants to let the cord slide right off...
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You can use the holes to lock down the cord. The lanyard hole in particular is useful as the curve of the tang is convex at that point and that's where it wants to slip. Getting the cord wrapped all the way to the end of the tang doesn't serve any practical purpose, it would only be for looks.

Gordon
 
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