Buck A fair review of the 110 and 420HC

[Wild Willie]

Absolutely. I have a lot of junk to cut daily and I think 110's work just fine. So do Sebenza's and XM-18's and a whole plethora of other blades. All these threads just seem to justify someone's need for the next best thing and throw shade on people that don't have that mindset.

Wild Willie...if we were in a 90's movie, I'd definitely stand and start a slow clap for you in this thread. You've been spot on dude....

Why thank you.

Of course, if we were in a 90s movie I'd be too young to be doing much of anything...

 

[JD Bear]

I don’t know - if you ask me, they’re all just to start arguments. And throw shade.

I'd agree, but I don't know if my opinion means too much...I'm carrying a knife with 1095. That's what people in the 1900's carried....

 

[Danny Linguini]

I don’t dismiss YouTubers because they’re on YouTube, I dismiss them because I can’t get past them acting like complete fucking morons to see if they actually have anything valuable to offer. Because most of the time they don’t.

 

[Wild Willie]

Before I go to a restaurant, I look at the reviews to see what other people have to say about it, not because I trust some random person on Yelp but so I can have an idea of what my experience will be like. Before I buy a knife, I consider the reviews of people all over, including YouTubers, forum members and Reddit. I just so happen to like YouTube reviews because I can see exactly what they're doing with a knife to come to their conclusions.

Do you go to yelp or YouTube reviews to decide what music you like? How about what shoes to wear? Or did you, like many that have come before us, try it and see whether it worked for you or not?

This is where I'm trying to go with this... Why is it we allow ourselves to lend so much credence to random people rather than ourselves, or the people we know and trust?

 

[Slice-and-dice]

I have a Buck 110 LT in 420HC that I’ve been carrying daily for around 6 months now for work. Hasn’t let me down once, and don’t plan on replacing it. Also have the 110 pro in S30V.

The two best everyday stainless steels ever made, in the minds of many. For the price and performance ratio, I'm fine with 420HC (though I liked 425M better). S30V is still fantastic, amazing steel and tests out well on the Steel Nerds charts. Depending on the purpose of the knife, I'll pay a little more ($25 usually) for the S30V.

 

[J. Doyle]

The most definitive thing I state in this thread is that the buck 110 didn't performed as well in the video as other knives had in the past which is true. Whether you believe that is important or that the rope cutting test is a valid way to test edge retention is another matter entirely, I never said anything about "undisputed proof".

Apologies for causing confusion. I responded to your quote but was referring to the OP, not anything specific you posted. My bad....should have been clearer about that.

It's a bit silly to outright dismiss any YouTube reviewer just because of their chosen platform. I wasn't a big fan of DBK at first because they had mean things to say about my Esee 5. Lo and behold, when it came time to actually use the thing, it lived up to every criticism they had of it. The whole point of online reviews isn't to treat any one as a definitive authority on the product, but to evaluate that review in the context of what everyone is saying about the knife. Before I go to a restaurant, I look at the reviews to see what other people have to say about it, not because I trust some random person on Yelp but so I can have an idea of what my experience will be like. Before I buy a knife, I consider the reviews of people all over, including YouTubers, forum members and Reddit. I just so happen to like YouTube reviews because I can see exactly what they're doing with a knife to come to their conclusions.

I don't take issue with it because it was specifically youtube. And I will concede that sometimes useful information is obtained from watching a YouTube review.

 

[Lesknife]

Smaug, I don’t need or want to watch a toob video of some self ordained tester/abuser that wants some attention from their absurd methods of testing. I’ve seen them before and they are comical because I can’t take them seriously. They’re full of crap !!! I’m thinking most of these people look at the charts on bladehq and base their opinions on that miserable information.

There are plenty of people out there using the Buck 110 in 420hc that know it performs, they know they can get a different model to suit their needs in a variety of steel and they are happy with them. Why does that anger you so much?

 

[J. Doyle]

Do you go to yelp or YouTube reviews to decide what music you like? How about what shoes to wear? Or did you, like many that have come before us, try it and see whether it worked for you or not?

This is where I'm trying to go with this... Why is it we allow ourselves to lend so much credence to random people rather than ourselves, or the people we know and trust?

 

[kafolarbear]

@kafolarbear instead of editing my above post (in case you were already responding), I wanted to respond more fully to another point you made:



So, to clarify, you feel that the customers of companies who continue to make classic products that still sell are somehow the source of "we" who keep "excusing inferior quality"? I don't know if you've been paying attention, but there are countless companies who discontinue old beloved classic products, come up with new products which, from a production, design, or materials standpoint, are objectively better, only to have to turn around start offering the classic product again because it's what people want.

"OH YEAH?!??! WHERE'S YOUR PROOF!!!!"

Ask companies like Nike, Coca Cola, Leatherman, multiple tool companies, bicycle companies, car companies, knife companies, etc. why they cancel, and then have to start reoffering those old products.

So, this idea that people buying these beloved classic products (like a Buck 110, or Air Jordans or whatever else) are somehow "excusing inferior qualiy", it's just....ok, I'll say it. It's dumb. It's a dumb opinion, and it comes from a place of not knowing how...well, anything, works.

The Buck 110 is a design from 1964 and they've been using 420HC since 1993. I guess I misspoke when I said "inferior quality", as there is no doubt in my mind that the build quality of the knife is excellent at least from the one I handled briefly before gifting it to my father. However, there are objectively better knives you can get now for the price if you want to compare steel, weight, locking mechanism, etc. Sure the buck 110 is a beautiful looking knife dripping with history that every knife enthusiast should handle at least once, right up there with the Ka-Bar USMC. I'm just convinced that the reason for it's continued popularity is that legendary reputation it holds because it's the knife that everyone's grandfather carried with them for their whole life and they want one just like that. Once again this comes from a place of nostalgia rather than an objective review of performance. It's no different to why people outside of our niche community seem to believe that Damascus steel is the be all end all of steel, because for centuries that was the case, and so Damascus steel lives on in the public consciousness as this apex of blade steel even though it's time is long gone.

Companies usually (not always) re release their "Classic" products to appeal to that sense of nostalgia, and hopefully squeeze more money from a demographic that might have been turned off by their newer products, not because the classics are necessarily better than more modern products.

Do you go to yelp or YouTube reviews to decide what music you like? How about what shoes to wear? Or did you, like many that have come before us, try it and see whether it worked for you or not?

This is where I'm trying to go with this... Why is it we allow ourselves to lend so much credence to random people rather than ourselves, or the people we know and trust?

Music? No, and it's a bad comparison because music is purely about taste. I wouldn't ask someone for their opinion on music because I can spend 3 minutes listening to it myself to see if I like it or not. I wouldn't ask for someones opinion on how a knife looks either because at a glance I can tell if I like how it looks. That being said, I will absolutely read reviews for a new pair of running shoes or boots so I can know what I'm getting before spending a couple hundred dollars. I can't tell how well something like a new pair of jungle boots or a knife will perform at a glance, which is why I'll do my research before buying them. And I don't know about you, but there's not many people around me I can ask for their opinion on most knives that are out there. There are people out there who I would trust with my life who's opinion of knives I would take with an ocean's worth of salt.

 

[Smaug]

I didn't watch the video either. I don't know what other knives they compared.

Did they only test on that one medium? Did they at the very least, ensure (to the best of their ability) that all knives had the same edge type/finish, the same thickness and cross sectional geometry, and that they used the same amount of pressure on all the cuts?

If the answer is "no" then their "tests" don't really mean all that much and the "results" may be misleading and therefore not of much value.

I'm not going to type answers to questions because you're too lazy or stubborn to watch the VIDEO THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING.

 

[Wild Willie]

Music? No, and it's a bad comparison because music is purely about taste

So, what you're saying is, that if some jackass on YouTube says a particular song is the greatest ever, and all music that came before it is no longer relevant, you wouldn't just take their word for it?

Let's say you're researching a pair of jungle boots, and you come across a video. In said video, the "reviewer" unboxes them, then proceeds to take the soles to a bench grinder to test their "long term abrasion resistance" because actually wearing them around and seeing how they work in the real world takes too long. Do you take this seriously? Or perhaps, do you read a few reviews from people who say they've worn this particular style of boot for 20 years in the same field you're employed in, with an average lifespan of two and a half to three years a pair, then decide that for the price point, such a lifespan is acceptable for your needs or not?

 

[eveled]

I’ve carried and used Buck 110’s daily. For 40 years. Used hard, bordering on abuse. I wore out 2 blades, 1 lock, and dozens of sheaths. I have 0 complaints. ZERO.

 

[J. Doyle]

I'm not going to type answers to questions because you're too lazy or stubborn to watch the VIDEO THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING.

So that's a "no" answer to the questions then. Thanks for confirming my suspicions and saving me the time of actually watching the video.

 

[Wild Willie]

So, what you're saying is, that if some jackass on YouTube says a particular song is the greatest ever, and all music that came before it is no longer relevant, you wouldn't just take their word for it?

Let's say you're researching a pair of jungle boots, and you come across a video. In said video, the "reviewer" unboxes them, then proceeds to take the soles to a bench grinder to test their "long term abrasion resistance" because actually wearing them around and seeing how they work in the real world takes too long. Do you take this seriously? Or perhaps, do you read a few reviews from people who say they've worn this particular style of boot for 20 years in the same field you're employed in, with an average lifespan of two and a half to three years a pair, then decide that for the price point, such a lifespan is acceptable for your needs or not?

I'm gonna add a few more details to my boots analogy...

Let's say, during your research you find a company that's been making jungle boots for 60 years. You're a member of junglebootsforums, where people discuss all things jungle boots. Another member posts the video involving the bench grinder on the soles, saying they're trash, because they only lasted for 56.3 seconds on the wheel, and this guy also tested a pair of boots from a newer company, and they lasted 58.7 seconds so they're automatically better than the pair you've been looking into, based solely on that metric.

Now the guys that have been wearing those boots, from the well established company for 45 years, in the same industry you're in, say that the grinder wheel metric is ridiculous, and doesn't have any bearing on how they wear their boots. Do you side with the "reviewer" or do you maybe slow your roll a second, and listen to what the greyhairs have to offer?

Food for thought!

 

[kafolarbear]

So, what you're saying is, that if some jackass on YouTube says a particular song is the greatest ever, and all music that came before it is no longer relevant, you wouldn't just take their word for it?

Let's say you're researching a pair of jungle boots, and you come across a video. In said video, the "reviewer" unboxes them, then proceeds to take the soles to a bench grinder to test their "long term abrasion resistance" because actually wearing them around and seeing how they work in the real world takes too long. Do you take this seriously? Or perhaps, do you read a few reviews from people who say they've worn this particular style of boot for 20 years in the same field you're employed in, with an average lifespan of two and a half to three years a pair, then decide that for the price point, such a lifespan is acceptable for your needs or not?

Well I don't think anyone is saying the Buck 110 is irrelevant, clearly it still has a big place within the hearts of a lot of people here. I still think the music thing is a bad comparison because you're trying to compare an art form that is easily accessed in full through a quick internet search to a tool that has a set of objective properties (ie. corrosion resistance, edge retention, toughness, cutting performance) that no amount of my personal taste or opinions will change, and I'd have to spend potentially hundreds of dollars on that tool and a lot of time using it before I can get a real feel for it.

I think there's merit in listening to both types of reviews. The big issue I have with taking reviews from a person who's used a product for years is the emotional investment they undoubtedly have in that product. Everyone wants to believe the money they spent was the best use of that money possible, I would argue there's a lot more bias in a review from someone who has only used this one product for years over someone who reviews hundreds of products for a living and has a series of tests to objectively evaluate each knife they review. So yeah I think while you can learn a lot from someone who has used the same tool for years on end, that review wouldn't hold much water if I was trying to compare that product to everything else that's out there, all it tells me is that the product works well for that person, who's to say if they'd used a different product all that time, they wouldn't be just as happy if not happier with it?

 

[Smaug]

Getting a little derailed here; I had to go back and re-read my original post to remind myself what (specifically) the topic is.

I asked what you all thought of the Buck 110 and Buck's 420HC, and for those two items, there were poll options. I got lots of opinions on both. (thanks)

I went on to say I thought these two Dutch kids did a fair job evaluating America's Favorite Knife. That's where it went off the rails. Lots of people commented on the video or presenters without even watching it.

Here's the thing about watching the video as a prerequisite to commenting...I don't log on here for a homework assignment nor do I need to watch someone review a knife that I am very, very, very familiar with. I know what a 110 is. I know what it was designed to do. I know what abuse it can take. I know the shortcomings of a chunky piece of brass with 60 year old blade technology.

Well, at least you're not speculating on what's in the video, though...

I'm not watching the video because I don't have the time, and their channel doesn't seem like it would interest me. I will not White Knight the 110. It IS a bit outdated, but that doesn't make it obsolete. I don't carry mine because it's heavy. My 68 year old dad has no issue with this, but that's all he carries. I've got a folder, a multitool, a back pocket folder and maybe a pistol on me

I think there ARE knives out there that can do what the 110 does better and even for less money. However, for what you get for $65, I don't see it as a bad choice. I can tell you for an absolute non-ropecutting fact, that it can hold a more than reasonable edge being used hard on a construction site. Cutting drain tile, duct tape, digging and scrapping dried grease off the lubrication points on digging equipment. Wil it slice paper after that? NO. Will it still cut things? Absolutely. My old man usually drops his 110 on my desk when he comes in to the office to use the can. In the 5 minutes he's occupied, I can sharpen out a month's worth of abuse with nothing more than a diamond hone, an arkansas stone, a ceramic stick and a loaded stropped and have it popping hair off my arm.

Once again, if the question is are their knives out there that can do the same thing with less weight, then there absolutely are. If the question is if the 110 is a bad knife because it is old and won't hold a razor's edge after some abrasive cutting, then that IMHO is false.

The question was "how do you feel about the Buck 110 and Buck's 420HC". You did a good job saying how you feel about the 110. (not that you need my approval) It sounds like you think their 420HC is OK or good but not great.

Having had a look at the poll at the top of the thread, I'm curious. There are five rocket surgeons so far who've chosen:

Buck's 420HC is a budget steel; they're just being cheap by still using it."​

Would any of you care to put forth a suggestion for a better steel that they should be using (while still keeping the knife at its current price point)? If so, I'd like to request to be added to your newsletter, so that when the knife company you've started gets going, I can be first in put my $65 on the barrel to buy an American made knife in that better steel, please and thank you!

D2 would be my choice. It holds an edge a LOT better and is reasonably tough, easy to sharpen (w/diamond and ceramic) and also reasonably corrosion resistant, for a tool steel. Yep, if you go and use a D2 blade as a pry bar or screwdriver or if you completely neglect it, it will let you know you misused it. But at least it doesn't need to be sharpened so dang often.

D2 → https://www.bladehq.com/blog/knife-steel-guide/#D2
420 → https://www.bladehq.com/blog/knife-steel-guide/#420

↑ To be fair, 420HC is better than 420(J2) above. It would probably rate either 1/2 or 1 point higher in terms of edge retention, judging by the differences.

Which one is more well-rounded? I'd say D2, since it has no glaring deficiencies.

No newsletter, sorry. Stay tuned here on BF. ;-)

This is an interesting question for its own poll... D2 vs 420HC for a budget steel.

 

[srfc]

So many people using strawman arguments and interpreting others comments to fit their own narrative in this thread. Holy moly, can't anyone discuss a topic in good faith anymore...

 

[jbmonkey]

Getting a little derailed here; I had to go back and re-read my original post to remind myself what (specifically) the topic is.

I asked what you all thought of the Buck 110 and Buck's 420HC, and for those two items, there were poll options. I got lots of opinions on both. (thanks)

I went on to say I thought these two Dutch kids did a fair job evaluating America's Favorite Knife. That's where it went off the rails. Lots of people commented on the video or presenters without even watching it.


Well, at least you're not speculating on what's in the video, though...


The question was "how do you feel about the Buck 110 and Buck's 420HC". You did a good job saying how you feel about the 110. (not that you need my approval) It sounds like you think their 420HC is OK or good but not great.


D2 would be my choice. It holds an edge a LOT better and is reasonably tough, easy to sharpen (w/diamond and ceramic) and also reasonably corrosion resistant, for a tool steel. Yep, if you go and use a D2 blade as a pry bar or screwdriver or if you completely neglect it, it will let you know you misused it. But at least it doesn't need to be sharpened so dang often.

D2 → https://www.bladehq.com/blog/knife-steel-guide/#D2
420 → https://www.bladehq.com/blog/knife-steel-guide/#420

↑ To be fair, 420HC is better than 420(J2) above. It would probably rate either 1/2 or 1 point higher in terms of edge retention, judging by the differences.

Which one is more well-rounded? I'd say D2, since it has no glaring deficiencies.

No newsletter, sorry. Stay tuned here on BF. ;-)

This is an interesting question for its own poll... D2 vs 420HC for a budget steel.

d2 in a folder is fine. it has poor toughness and not great for a larger fixed blade. so it has a glaring deficiency in certain applications. it's also harder to sharpen. lastly it's corrosion resistance is okay at best. whereas 420hc has superior toughness by a lot. it's corrosion resistance is much better. it also sharpens easily. so really depends on what kind of knife,
how is it going to be used and what is important to you.

if edge retention is all one cares about d2 wins hands down.....

 

[catspa]

I’ve carried and used Buck 110’s daily. For 40 years. Used hard, bordering on abuse. I wore out 2 blades, 1 lock, and dozens of sheaths. I have 0 complaints. ZERO.

There he is. Welcome to the thread, buddy.

Parker

 

[J. Doyle]

@Smaug

In addition to reasons I've already mentioned, I further declined to watch the video because you started off the thread with obvious bias and want to make everyone watch your video that confirms your bias. You want us to come to the same conclusion.

This bit below:

I mentioned recently in a thread somewhere that 420HC is a junk steel, EVEN with the famous BOS heat treatment. There were a few members that quickly fetched their torches and pitchforks in defense of Papa Buck.

I will admit that it's about the best VERSION of 420, but the best version of a budget steel is still budget steel.

Is a pretty narrow minded view point, if not blatantly erroneous.

By your metric, 1075 is a junk budget steel. It's extremely cheap (as steel goes), very low alloy, simple steel. It is not even close to the best all around steel. But in a few certain applications, it shines. It will do a few things the latest greatest super steels could never do.

Everything in steel is a trade off. If you start a post like this, you should expect opposing viewpoints.

I didn't really need to watch the video to know the answers to my questions. Your bias was already on display and you want your video to prove it. But it (most likely) doesn't.