Buck A fair review of the 110 and 420HC

[ferider]

Regarding steel costs. See, for instance:

https://newjerseysteelbaron.com/product/cpm-s90v/

CPZRQ-094-0100-12-HR .113 × 1 × 12 in $18.16

You can make 4 Buck 110 blades with this one. I.e., < 5$ per knife. That is, if you agree CPM-S90V is a modern, high edge retention stainless steel.

 

[Wild Willie]

Well I don't think anyone is saying the Buck 110 is irrelevant, clearly it still has a big place within the hearts of a lot of people here. I still think the music thing is a bad comparison because you're trying to compare an art form that is easily accessed in full through a quick internet search to a tool that has a set of objective properties (ie. corrosion resistance, edge retention, toughness, cutting performance) that no amount of my personal taste or opinions will change, and I'd have to spend potentially hundreds of dollars on that tool and a lot of time using it before I can get a real feel for it.

I think there's merit in listening to both types of reviews. The big issue I have with taking reviews from a person who's used a product for years is the emotional investment they undoubtedly have in that product. Everyone wants to believe the money they spent was the best use of that money possible, I would argue there's a lot more bias in a review from someone who has only used this one product for years over someone who reviews hundreds of products for a living and has a series of tests to objectively evaluate each knife they review. So yeah I think while you can learn a lot from someone who has used the same tool for years on end, that review wouldn't hold much water if I was trying to compare that product to everything else that's out there, all it tells me is that the product works well for that person, who's to say if they'd used a different product all that time, they wouldn't be just as happy if not happier with it?

I respect your viewpoint here, but the music reference is simply an example of figuring out what you like without any assistance from a talking head.

In my eyes, a company that has a loyal customer base spanning decades holds a lot of water. Especially against potential "flash in the pan" companies with unproven track records, and when there's a CS department with a known history of backing up their products.

In the case of people who as you put it "make their living" reviewing products: do you not think that there can be any bias present in such a situation. Example gratias: I much prefer and run Stihl power equipment in my business, however, if some new startup suddenly approached me with an exorbitant sum of money to make a video on the interwebs saying that I love their power equipment and Stihl is junk, I'd be sorely tempted to sell out in order to better my financial position. All the while, still keeping Stihl saws on the truck.

See how this can go either way? There's no true objectivity left in our mass media saturated society...

 

[ScarFoot]

Regarding steel costs. See, for instance:

https://newjerseysteelbaron.com/product/cpm-s90v/

CPZRQ-094-0100-12-HR .113 × 1 × 12 in $18.16

You can make 4 Buck 110 blades with this one. I.e., < 5$ per knife. That is, if you agree CPM-S90V is a modern, high edge retention stainless steel.

Just remember the cost in changing blade steels isn’t so much in the material itself but in the machining and increased time in machining. CPM-S90V is a different animal.

 

[Deino]

Regarding steel costs. See, for instance:

https://newjerseysteelbaron.com/product/cpm-s90v/

CPZRQ-094-0100-12-HR .113 × 1 × 12 in $18.16

You can make 4 Buck 110 blades with this one. I.e., < 5$ per knife. That is, if you agree CPM-S90V is a modern, high edge retention stainless steel.

Using that metric, custom knife makers are overcharging us by 10 folds. But it is not the case.

If you sell your car for scraps, do you think that it worth even 500 US$? That's about how much the raw material cost for a car.

 

[J. Doyle]

So many people using strawman arguments and interpreting others comments to fit their own narrative in this thread. Holy moly, can't anyone discuss a topic in good faith anymore...

Do you really think this thread was started "in good faith"?

It was biased from the start which is fine until it turns into being forced to watch a biased video before the OP will discuss it further.

And side bar, your post added nothing of value and wasn't discussing the topic at hand either. Just sayin'.

 

[ScarFoot]

I'm gonna add a few more details to my boots analogy...

Let's say, during your research you find a company that's been making jungle boots for 60 years. You're a member of junglebootsforums, where people discuss all things jungle boots. Another member posts the video involving the bench grinder on the soles, saying they're trash, because they only lasted for 56.3 seconds on the wheel, and this guy also tested a pair of boots from a newer company, and they lasted 58.7 seconds so they're automatically better than the pair you've been looking into, based solely on that metric.

Now the guys that have been wearing those boots, from the well established company for 45 years, in the same industry you're in, say that the grinder wheel metric is ridiculous, and doesn't have any bearing on how they wear their boots. Do you side with the "reviewer" or do you maybe slow your roll a second, and listen to what the greyhairs have to offer?

Food for thought!

If those bench grinder results are repeatable they are valid data points even if it is a seemingly ridiculous test compared to real world usage. We often have to find ways to quantify what has become “fact”. More importantly who cares how long the boots last if they hurt your feet.

 

[kafolarbear]

I respect your viewpoint here, but the music reference is simply an example of figuring out what you like without any assistance from a talking head.

In my eyes, a company that has a loyal customer base spanning decades holds a lot of water. Especially against potential "flash in the pan" companies with unproven track records, and when there's a CS department with a known history of backing up their products.

In the case of people who as you put it "make their living" reviewing products: do you not think that there can be any bias present in such a situation. Example gratias: I much prefer and run Stihl power equipment in my business, however, if some new startup suddenly approached me with an exorbitant sum of money to make a video on the interwebs saying that I love their power equipment and Stihl is junk, I'd be sorely tempted to sell out in order to better my financial position. All the while, still keeping Stihl saws on the truck.

See how this can go either way? There's no true objectivity left in our mass media saturated society...

That comes down to the confidence you have in the reviewer I suppose. In this case, I've found that DBK's knife reviews have aligned closely with my own experiences with certain knives, therefore I'm more likely to take their reviews at face value. I've also watched them give scathingly negative reviews for companies whose knives they are usually very favorable towards or otherwise they seemingly have good relations with, so I trust their ability to call things as they are. Of course it is always possible for a given video they've been paid off to say good or bad things about a knife, but I think it's pretty unlikely in this case.

 

[srfc]

Do you really think this thread was started "in good faith"?

It was biased from the start which is fine until it turns into being forced to watch a biased video before the OP will discuss it further.

And side bar, your post added nothing of value and wasn't discussing the topic at hand either. Just sayin'.

Yes, I do think it was started in good faith amd of course it was biased, because op clearly stated his opinion on the matter at hand.
Also, I think nobody is forced to watch anything. If you don't want to watch the video, don't watch it. Skip the thread that was opened to discuss it, move on.

But building strawmen arguments of what the video probably said (without watching it) or quoting other commenters and then saying: so what you mean is "something completely different" seems really disingenuous to me.

 

[Wild Willie]

If those bench grinder results are repeatable they are valid data points even if it is a seemingly ridiculous test compared to real world usage. We often have to find ways to quantify what has become “fact”. More importantly who cares how long the boots last if they hurt your feet.

I knew I was forgetting an important part of the boots equation. Comfort level is indeed paramount.

 

[Wild Willie]

Yes, I do think it was started in good faith amd of course it was biased, because op clearly stated his opinion on the matter at hand.
Also, I think nobody is forced to watch anything. If you don't want to watch the video, don't watch it. Skip the thread that was opened to discuss it, move on.

But building strawmen arguments of what the video probably said (without watching it) or quoting other commenters and then saying: so what you mean is "something completely different" seems really disingenuous to me.

Welcome to the Internet I guess...
We should all know by now that opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them, and it shouldn't be surprising at this point how these things usually shake out. Of course, if you were really interested in discussing knives you'd probably not have waited since 2016 to make your first 2 posts.

 

[J. Doyle]

Also, I think nobody is forced to watch anything.

They are if they want to discuss it with the OP, per him.

If you don't want to watch the video, don't watch it. Skip the thread that was opened to discuss it, move on.

I didn't watch it. Im still free to comment on the thread. Sorry, not sorry.

But building strawmen arguments of what the video probably said (without watching it) or

I didn't build any strawman argument. I asked questions that he declined to answer unless I watched the video. Kinda goes against your previous point just above^.

He could discuss the results of the video or summarize it, you know, since this is a knife discussion forum.

And if im not mistaken, he said at one point it wasn't about the video but also said it was.

quoting other commenters and then saying: so what you mean is "something completely different" seems really disingenuous to me.

I don't know what you're talking about on this one.

 

[srfc]

Welcome to the Internet I guess...
We should all know by now that opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them, and it shouldn't be surprising at this point how these things usually shake out. Of course, if you were really interested in discussing knives you'd probably not have waited since 2016 to make your first 2 posts.

Yeah sure, logging in to my old browsing account and starting to contribute totally invalidates my point.
I've seen this a few times on this forum now. Someone new posts an unpopular comment and the old guys jump down his throat about how his low post count means he should just shut up.

If you were really interested in disscusing knives you'd probably be more welcoming to new people on the forum.

 

[srfc]

This isn't going anywhere productive or friendly.
Time to log out and do something fun instead.

 

[Wild Willie]

Unfortunately you aren't new, and I'm usually more than welcoming. Coming in and tossing out allegations of straw men and whatever other gobbledygook you're spewing is what gets people wound up.

Maybe read more and post less until you figure it out big guy.

 

[jbmonkey]

Yeah sure, logging in to my old browsing account and starting to contribute totally invalidates my point.
I've seen this a few times on this forum now. Someone new posts an unpopular comment and the old guys jump down his throat about how his low post count means he should just shut up.

If you were really interested in disscusing knives you'd probably be more welcoming to new people on the forum.

the op is one of the "old guys" here. he didn't jump down your throat on what ya said or make you unwelcome......

 

[DocJD]

WE

Is that the "Royal We " ?

Trying to control a discussion on BF = herding cats !

 

[DocJD]

Is that the "Royal We " ?

Trying to control a discussion on BF = herding cats !

Seriously , your poll =

How do you feel about 420HC and the 110?​

If you wanted only to talk about a specified video review , should have asked only that ...maybe ?

"Feel" about the specific knife and steel is what you asked for .

 

[ScarFoot]

I knew I was forgetting an important part of the boots equation. Comfort level is indeed paramount.

It’s amazing how often we forget how important comfortable boots are when we are debating blade steels…. Can’t see the forest for the trees.

 

[Wild Willie]

It’s amazing how often we forget how important comfortable boots are when we are debating blade steels…. Can’t see the forest for the trees.

Can't carry your knife far in crappy boots. Especially if they've been taken to a bench grinder.

 

[Lesknife]

Smaug

In addition to reasons I've already mentioned, I further declined to watch the video because you started off the thread with obvious bias and want to make everyone watch your video that confirms your bias. You want us to come to the same conclusion.

This bit below:


Is a pretty narrow minded view point, if not blatantly erroneous.

By your metric, 1075 is a junk budget steel. It's extremely cheap (as steel goes), very low alloy, simple steel. It is not even close to the best all around steel. But in a few certain applications, it shines. It will do a few things the latest greatest super steels could never do.

Everything in steel is a trade off. If you start a post like this, you should expect opposing viewpoints.

I didn't really need to watch the video to know the answers to my questions. Your bias was already on display and you want your video to prove it. But it (most likely) doesn't.

Exactly! I think he was hoping for a bashing party and got a smack down instead. These so called reviewers with hyper active dysfunction using a knife like it’s an axe or pry bar. I’ve grown sick of watching these idiots!
There is a reason why the Buck 110 is still selling like hotcakes. A few weeks ago the wall store was selling the 120th anniversary edition for $29 and change by the thousands. On the fakebook page that’s all you could see about people buying them by the dozen to modify or give as gifts. If they weren’t relevant why would it be such a big deal? Huh smaug ?