A first look at the Natchez Bowie

Partial tangs, or rat-tail tangs have been around for a long, long time. There was however an unfortunate trend to make them even weaker when swords became used more for dress or display, and it took makers a while to get around to correcting this. The tangs of true Japanese katanas that I've seen extend only about 2/3 of the way into the wooden handle, and are then held in place with bamboo pins. They seem to chop just fine. Well, flesh anyway, which is also a Bowie's main function.

Having said all of that, I'm just not paying that much for a production knife made in Japan. Cold Steel's gotten a bit too proud of their knives of late and their pricing is out of control. They've got some great designs, but I'll hold off until they start making them in the U.S. again and they aren't charging custom knife prices.
 
Yo! Dang that is a huge bowie! Man-killer indeed or at least arm-amputator! :) I couldn't imagine fighting someone who was armed with that blade! Hmm..I'll have to think about that one for awhile...get a stick...run...take the risk and disarm...? Ahh, the ponderings of life in a world full of entirely too-big-a-bowies! Late!
 
H2H907 said:
Partial tangs, or rat-tail tangs have been around for a long, long time.
Click to expand...

These two tangs are not the same as rat-tail tangs. Some rat-tail tangs, like the one I have on a bolo I need to rehandle, are pretty strong, not that I'd choose it over a full-tang.

H2H907 said:
The tangs of true Japanese katanas that I've seen extend only about 2/3 of the way into the wooden handle, and are then held in place with bamboo pins. They seem to chop just fine.
Click to expand...

These tangs are almost as wide as the blade and nothing like these new Cold Steel tangs. I've only seen partial stick tangs connected to a rod on cheap knives.


H2H907 said:
Well, flesh anyway, which is also a Bowie's main function.
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Maybe for the Natchez, but the Laredo is also a ulitity Bowie, and that has an even thinner tang.

I've also demonstrated with other examples of fighting Bowies luch as the Livesay Sandbar Bowie and the Ontario Bagwells that a full exposed tang does not have a negative impact on the balance, so even a full-length stick tang like they have on the Trailmaster wouldn't either. I've also handled a custom hand-forged fighting Bowie at a gunshow (I could not afford such a knife :D) that had a full exposed tang and like the two I mentioned, the balance was very good. The "fighting knife" excuse for a weak tang isn't valid.

Considering how much steel goes into the blade, the extra amount to make it a full-length tang or even a full exposed tang is minimal.

It is also interesting considering what Cold Steel says about tangs in their FQA.;)

H2H907 said:
Having said all of that, I'm just not paying that much for a production knife made in Japan. Cold Steel's gotten a bit too proud of their knives of late and their pricing is out of control. They've got some great designs, but I'll hold off until they start making them in the U.S. again and they aren't charging custom knife prices.
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Custom prices for factor knives are too high, but that is only for the San-Mai knives. The SK5 Laredo usually goes for around $120.00.
 
Benjamin Liu said:
I've also handled a custom hand-forged fighting Bowie at a gunshow (I could not afford such a knife :D) that had a full exposed tang and like the two I mentioned, the balance was very good. The "fighting knife" excuse for a weak tang isn't valid.
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Although I don't know for certain that the tang in question (heh, I said "tang") is weak, it may or may not be, I do concur that a fully exposed tang can be balanced quite well for fighting applications. Especially if we're talking about a blade with a full distal taper from the hilt to both the point and the pommel.

My Patton/Kasper Grande (I know, I keep talking about it), has the slightest taper in the fully exposed handle tang, and it is my understanding that the Polkowski/Kasper Fighter has a fully exposed tang which is both tapered and honeycombed.

When I was a teenager, my mom picked up an old machete for me in a junk shop on Kuai. It was a Filipino number, hand-forged from a leaf spring and with water buffalo horn handle scales. It had a full distal taper, although at the time I thought this was simply half-assed workmanship. It had a 14" blade and was very fast in the hand. It also had a leather sheath with a smell that revealed it had been tanned using urine, and a thin, yellow nylon string for a sling. It had a very high, upswept point, which i ground down into a more bowie-esque point, which made the balance better and, unknown to me at the time, more functional as a bolo. Gawd I wish I still had it.
 
"I've also demonstrated with other examples of fighting Bowies luch as the Livesay Sandbar Bowie and the Ontario Bagwells that a full exposed tang does not have a negative impact on the balance,"

Benjamin,

Just where are you finding these Ontario Bagwells with the exposed tang? I've got a "little" experience with them, and haven't seen one yet. That's at least twice I've seen you mention them, so just had to ask. They don't exist.
 
Mike Sastre;5894420Benjamin said:
It's been years since I've handled on in person (1999,) so maybe I'm wrong. I thought they did.

I do own the Sanbar Bowie (the reason I never bought an Ontario, this was custom, carbon steel, and cost less) and the balance is great. Have you handled one of those?
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While I like my Livesay Sand Bar Bowie a lot, I doubt that I'd use the word "great" to describe the balance.
But hey, that's me.
Look at how the guard is put on the Livesay.
It is slid on from the back over the tang.
Same thing for the Ontarios.
But...the Ontarios don't have that big shoulder in front of the handle.
The guards on both butt up against the blade.
The Bagwells look full tang because they are, IIRC, a framed handle.
That is the traditional way to make a bowie. Back before full tangs were popular at all.
There is a metal frame work around the stick tang that the handle slabs are pinned to.
The frame and tang support each other.
In the days before stainless, the frames were made of Nickel Silver. That way they wouldn't tarnish/patina as much as carbon from constant contact with the hand.
See more about framed tang construction here:
http://beknivessite2.homestead.com/cokebottlehandle.html
 
I used to own #2 of the Livesay Sandbar Bowies - got rid of it for a number of reasons. Main ones being greatly over-exaggerated curve on clip and inconsistent thicknesses all over the blade. Wouldn't get anywhere near the word "great" in describing this Bowie.
 
i just received a custom hells belle, it really sheds new light on good and truly great fighting bowies. everything else i've had fails in comparison to it but Bill has been making bowies for 40 some years so he really has the bugs worked out;)
 
The magic starts when you put your Bagwell in motion. Just talked with Bill Wed. night, and he told me he'd sent a Belle to Iowa. Congratulations on getting your Bagwell!!! Let me know if and when you are ready to have a Southern Comfort for it.
 
thanks Mike! i'm sure i will be in touch, i just have to get some of my funds back.:(
 
Thanks to all of you for your input on Cold Steels's Natchez Bowie.
After reading all of your posts, I decided to purchase this knife for my collection.
The first thought in my head as I opened the box was, "this is not a knife, it's a small sword!" My eyes were telling me that it was a sword, but when I gripped it, it did feel like a good, beefy knife. It handles well like a knife, but with the almost 12 inch blade, it makes extremely small work of any cutting task.
I particularly like the San Mai blade which is just a beautiful blade to look at as well as being very sharp.
If you like to impress your knife collecting friends, this is your ultimate trump card. You are definitely 'king of the hill' when you bring this bad boy to the party.
I highly recommend this knife!
 
I was doing the Indy 1500 Gun & Knife Show this last weekend and one gentleman asked to look at the Natchez Bowie I had on display. He looked at the laminate line and asked me how come the grind was so messed up and stated that it wouldn't cut very well like that. Had to explain that it wasn't the grind line and that the San Mai was a laminate steel and the Natchez was a particularly wicked slasher. Before I could stop him, he ran the Natchez blade down his arm and shaved one hell of a clump of hair from it. Should've seen the look on his face! Glad he didn't mess up, but very poor show etiquette!
 
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Mike Sastre said:
I was doing the Indy 1500 Gun & Knife Show this last weekend and one gentleman asked to look at the Natchez Bowie I had on display. He looked at the laminate line and asked me how come the grind was so messed up and stated that it wouldn't cut very well like that. Had to explain nthat it wasn't the grind line and that the San Mai was a laminate steel and the Natchez was a particularly wicked slasher. Before I could stop him, he ran the Natchez blade down his arm and shaved one hell of a clump of hair from it. Should've seen the look on his face! Glad he didn't mess up, but very poor show etiquette!
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:eek:
At least he wasn't a total 100% nimrod, just remember he could have tried to "test" the sharpness by running his finger along the edge!
Now that would have been messy!
:D
 
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