A forum in need

Bladeandbarrel

Bladeandbarrel

Joined
Oct 5, 1998
Messages
3,148
Of moderation. This forum has been largely self-moderated for several years and despite this has been one of the more interesting and active subforums here.

This forum was not created for makers to self-promote or sell knives. That is why BFC has paying knifemaker memberships and so-on.

Rather, this forum was put in place to have unvarnished, frank discussion around buying, collecting and even disposal of custom, handmade knives. The moderators have always been prominent collectors. The posters have generally been collectors, or purveyors, or photogs showing off their new acquisitions or dream acquisitions with a resulting discussion on the merits of said item.

Do we want this to change?

I see a very PC attitude creeping into this forum, mostly from irrelevant third parties who have never been active participants on this forum. I guess my question to you newly disgruntled is "why now?". Or have you just run out of other playgrounds to play in?

Comments?
 
...is a forum indeed.

It's called the 'Custom & Handmade Knives' forum, so I assume that people involved in both making and buying them are welcome, along with people who have an appreciation for custom and handmade knives. It's a pretty broad description.

If some people here are feeling threatened that their sanctuary has been discovered by the unwashed masses, well...That sort of thing happens all the time these days and in real life too.

There will always be turnover and evolution within internet forums. Nature of the beast. I'm a newcomer, and I'm not going anywhere. I like it here, warts and all. I've met some super cool guys who make knives for a living through this forum, and I'm really thankful to this forum for that introduction.

I don't know what the suggestion of having moderators is about, it's pretty mellow in here compared to other places. Self policing should work well in this little forum. Could you explain why you think we need more moderating?
 
Lorien said:
...is a forum indeed.

Could you explain why you think we need more moderating?
Click to expand...

Because we aren't doing much talking about knives!
Everyone is welcome here. But keep in mind the roots and purpose of this forum when you walk in the door.
 
I have always liked having makers post photos of their knives in the custom knife forum. This has always been a forum for the collector, but I'm not sure that was its original purpose. I think it was for the discussion of custom knives in their entirety. I much prefer getting an overall perspective on custom knives, not just the collectors perspective.

A few years ago I remember that there was a rule put in place on this forum that makers couldn't post photos of their knives. That was a period that I didn't spend much time here. When Darby and Randy changed it so that makers could post photos again, I once again started to hang around a lot more.

It is up to the collectors to continue to start topics that are interesting, informative, and that generate good debate. It is really nice when makers join into these threads and give input. Thosse are the threads that interest me the most, but I also like the eye candy.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I have always liked having makers post photos of their knives in the custom knife forum. This has always been a forum for the collector, but I'm not sure that was its original purpose. I think it was for the discussion of custom knives in their entirety. I much prefer getting an overall perspective on custom knives, not just the collectors perspective.

A few years ago I remember that there was a rule put in place on this forum that makers couldn't post photos of their knives. That was a period that I didn't spend much time here. When Darby and Randy changed it so that makers could post photos again, I once again started to hang around a lot more.

It is up to the collectors to continue to start topics that are interesting, informative, and that generate good debate. It is really nice when makers join into these threads and give input. Thosse are the threads that interest me the most, but I also like the eye candy.
Click to expand...

Keith,
I agree with you 100%. I am not suggesting that we stop allowing makers to post pictures. Au Contraire, that was a frustrating period of time for this forum. What I am suggesting to the new makers that come here is to realize this is a collectors forum. Unlike the other venues they have at their disposal, this forum focuses on the collector. It always has, and in my opinion it always should. This forum is not a forum for wimps. If you post a picture of a knife you should expect critical acclaim or constructive criticism and quite possibly both! If you are afraid of this forum impacting your livliehood, it may be in your best interest not to post here unless you are READY to post here.

In this forum, the only one quite like it on the 'net, the emperor has no clothes.
 
with all due respect; there is nothing apparent to newcomers which outlines the roots and purpose of this forum. All we have to go on is the title, and the flavor of the posts, which all seem to me to be talking about things related to custom and handmade knives. An amazingly diverse field it seems!
Perhaps there should be a sticky which outlines the rules for this forum. I'm not keen on that idea, as I think it stifles dialogue and gives too much power to the MAN, whoever that may be on any given day:)
 
"Your place to find information about custom knives."

There's no mention ANYWHERE about this being a collector's forum.
 
Anthony, thanks. Now I understand better what your original post meant, and I tend to agree.

What would you want moderators to do?
 
Lorien said:
...is a forum indeed.

It's called the 'Custom & Handmade Knives' forum, so I assume that people involved in both making and buying them are welcome, along with people who have an appreciation for custom and handmade knives. It's a pretty broad description.

If some people here are feeling threatened that their sanctuary has been discovered by the unwashed masses, well...That sort of thing happens all the time these days and in real life too.

There will always be turnover and evolution within internet forums. Nature of the beast. I'm a newcomer, and I'm not going anywhere. I like it here, warts and all. I've met some super cool guys who make knives for a living through this forum, and I'm really thankful to this forum for that introduction.

I don't know what the suggestion of having moderators is about, it's pretty mellow in here compared to other places. Self policing should work well in this little forum. Could you explain why you think we need more moderating?
Click to expand...

I'm also a newcomer here compared to many and I guess the "some" you refer to have as much right (probably more) to feel threatened as you do to dictate how things should be here.
You have said you are not really a collector or a maker, however you make it clear you support the makers point of view.
 
Lorien said:
"Your place to find information about custom knives."

There's no mention ANYWHERE about this being a collector's forum.
Click to expand...

Well, now you know!

As there is a knifemakers forum and a gallery already, wouldn't you assume this forum to be somewhat different in scope?
 
In my opinion it will all pass soon. I think, basicly, a few people asked some questions as to the purpose of this sub forum and it suddenly got all wacky. I am willing to bet in a couple of weeks things will be for the most part back to normal. I hope so.
 
Can i join the tea party?

I remember the knifemaker membership used to be $800 a yr.!, is that right?

Is there some general rule, "No advertising allowed"? - i thought i saw this in one of the moderator sticky posts.. this made me scratch my head a little..

The name is "Custom & Handmade" knives... if the history dictates a focus on collector participation and issues, it has since broadened and changed. No one bothered to educate people like me. And Besides, I'm only 12 yrs old,.. joined here when i was only 9. Had my first folder at 4. :)







................................








(did anyone buy that?) ..yeah, really, im older than dirt. (like the rest of you) but far more handsome. ;)
David
 
I welcome anyone with an interest in custom knives. Not just those that collect them, but also those that buy them to use. When I first started visiting this forum, my only interest in knives was as users. I figured that it was time to check out custom knives, because I was getting bored with most of the production knives that I was checking out. $400.00 to $500.00 was my upper limit. The more time I spent here, the more interested I became in collecting. I wouldn't want this forum to get a good old boys reputation.
 
2knife said:
Can i join the tea party?

I remember the knifemaker membership used to be $800 a yr.!, is that right? :)
Click to expand...

Nope, the knifemaker membership started out at $45.00 if I'm not mistaken. In the new automated system it went down to $40.00. It was only the dealer membership that was $800.00 a year.
 
This place has it all! That's why I like it so much. I check out the other forums too, but I feel the most comfortable here.

I'm also totally not 'anti-collector'. I wish I didn't portray that kind of attitude so strongly. I haven't, in person, met any of the kind of collectors that frequent this forum, so I also should have said how much I am thankful for having the opportunity to learn from them too.

I think you're all really a great bunch of people in general, and despite personal differences which come out in here, are a tight community that I'd be honored to be a part of in some way.

I do find it weird that there is a pervasive sense of maker vs. collector. I thought the relationship is more cooperative? If not, why not?

At any rate, I do relate more closely with people who make things than people who collect things, so I guess I see life through that filter and tend to sympathize with similar folks. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate other people, whatever their background or motivation, (well, except BAD people of course).

I honestly didn't know that this forum was targeted at collectors specifically, as the content is so all over the place and it's pretty chaotic, (my favorite part). But it is peopled with the most diverse range of knowledgeable people in the cutlery industry/community of any other forum in BF. There is a LOT to learn in here, and it does have a very distinctive social scene, which I'm intrigued by and attracted to.

The original post kind of threw me. I didn't know if it was simply a reiteration of what is being discussed in other posts with regards to critiques, or something else. Just trying to get to the heart of it is all, I'm not trying to stir up shit or anything.

Change is in the air, it seems, and maybe this forum is 'in need'. But it really looks fine to me! But I'm not someone who has any influence on or who can dictate what this forum needs, I'm just another n00b who hangs out here and wants to be a part of it all.

And on the topic of critiques, I do think that it's fair to assume that if you put a picture of a knife you made in this forum that some people will point out their ideas on flaws and potential improvements- because that's what happens here!

I also think that forum members will take to task anyone who doesn't use common decency to get those opinions across. This is a pretty responsible bunch, who I think can police this forum themselves, and has seemed to do so effectively for as long as I've been here.
 
Bladeandbarrel said:
Well, now you know!

As there is a knifemakers forum and a gallery already, wouldn't you assume this forum to be somewhat different in scope?
Click to expand...

With all due respect, it seems like you are dictating from on high what you want this forum to be.

I think if you have a problem you need to take it up with the moderators.
 
Lorien said:
I do find it weird that there is a pervasive sense of maker vs. collector. I thought the relationship is more cooperative? If not, why not?
Click to expand...

I didn't think we had a maker vs. collector issue until STeven's original thread initiated all this discussion and drama. Still trying to figure it out myself.

It should be as simple as if a maker or collector doesn't want his work or knife critiqued then don't post it. And collectors/makers that do critique or offer opinion should do it in a courteous and productive manner.
 
Kevin Jones said:
I didn't think we had a maker vs. collector issue until STeven's original thread initiated all this discussion and drama. Still trying to figure it out myself.

It should be as simple as if a maker or collector doesn't want his work or knife critiqued then don't post it. And collectors/makers that do critique or offer opinion should do it in a courteous and productive manner.
Click to expand...

Agreed on all points. Though I would put it in terms of "If a maker or collector doesn't want his knife discussed..." Too much has turned on discussion of "critiques", IMHO, with much pointless navel-gazing and chin-scratching about what defines a "critique"; who is "qualified" to give it and who gets to set those qualifications. This is a knife discussion forum. Unsurprisingly, people discuss knives here. A discussion of knives inherently involves people from all points - makers, dealers, users, collectors - discussing what they like and what they don't about knives - both in general and based on specific examples. How this could be cast as such a radical and controversial concept does escape me.

Issues obviously needed to be aired - as evidenced by the multiple multi-paged threads - but the present tenor is not reflective of the overall forum climate. I believe that the end result will be more maker participation (we have already seen the results of this, if anyone cares to look at the existing threads that are about knives) and a more respectful approach by all parties involved.

Then again, I am an optimist.

"The last thing I would want to see.." is non-participation by makers on this forum. I think that would indeed be horrible. But while I maintain that forum members should be respectful and considerate in presenting their views on a knife, makers should likewise understand and expect that honest views - not artificially mandated high-fives - will be presented.

Roger
 
Bladeandbarrel said:
Of moderation. This forum has been largely self-moderated for several years and despite this has been one of the more interesting and active subforums here.

This forum was not created for makers to self-promote or sell knives. That is why BFC has paying knifemaker memberships and so-on.

Rather, this forum was put in place to have unvarnished, frank discussion around buying, collecting and even disposal of custom, handmade knives. The moderators have always been prominent collectors. The posters have generally been collectors, or purveyors, or photogs showing off their new acquisitions or dream acquisitions with a resulting discussion on the merits of said item.

Do we want this to change?

I see a very PC attitude creeping into this forum, mostly from irrelevant third parties who have never been active participants on this forum. I guess my question to you newly disgruntled is "why now?". Or have you just run out of other playgrounds to play in?

Comments?
Click to expand...

Amen Brother Lombardo! :thumbup:
P
 
RogerP said:
Agreed on all points. Though I would put it in terms of "If a maker or collector doesn't want his knife discussed..." Too much has turned on discussion of "critiques", IMHO, with much pointless navel-gazing and chin-scratching about what defines a "critique"; who is "qualified" to give it and who gets to set those qualifications. This is a knife discussion forum. Unsurprisingly, people discuss knives here. A discussion of knives inherently involves people from all points - makers, dealers, users, collectors - discussing what they like and what they don't about knives - both in general and based on specific examples. How this could be cast as such a radical and controversial concept does escape me.

Issues obviously needed to be aired - as evidenced by the multiple multi-paged threads - but the present tenor is not reflective of the overall forum climate. I believe that the end result will be more maker participation (we have already seen the results of this, if anyone cares to look at the existing threads that are about knives) and a more respectful approach by all parties involved.

Then again, I am an optimist.

"The last thing I would want to see.." is non-participation by makers on this forum. I think that would indeed be horrible. But while I maintain that forum members should be respectful and considerate in presenting their views on a knife, makers should likewise understand and expect that honest views - not artificially mandated high-fives - will be presented.

Roger
Click to expand...

That's a great point Roger as we VERY SELDOM if ever have a knife critiqued here. The introduction of that word here in the initial discussion is what ignited this flurry volatile of run-on threads. As you said, we discuss knives here and near 100% of the time when a collector or maker post on a knife it is as much or usually more positive then negative.
 
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