A Good Hunting Rifle

beezaur said:
The 6.5x55 is ballistically superior to the .308 Win, but that's not real hard. After about 600 yards or so (with suitable long-range bullets) the Swede pulls ahead in energy. This is comparing heavy, long-range match/hunting bullets (A-Max); 178-gr .30 cal and 140-gr 6.5mm. It should get around 1/2 to 2/3 the barrel life of the .308 Win., say, 2000 rounds in match shooting.

I would be leery of using the 6.5x55 on game larger than deer.

Great cartridge though.

Scott
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I have hunted extensively in Alberta with both a 6.5x55 and .308. I seriously doubt you could tell the difference between the two in a typical hunting scenario. Neither of them are particularly "high velocity" rounds compared to the various 7mm mags etc. In Sweden and Norway, the 6.5x55 is a very common cartridge - similar to how the 30-06 is in North America. They shoot thousands of moose there without any problems. Keep in mind that the 6.5x55 earned its reputation as a very efficient killer using "heavy for diameter bullets" like 154 and 160 grain bullets, launched at modest velocities (in the range of 2600 fps). This combo ensured great penetration without the risk of bullet failure, in the pre-premium bullet days. In North America, you typically see the 140 grain loads as a way to sqeeze a bit more velocity out of them. Compared to the .308, you will not see any significant difference in barrel life in a HUNTING rifle. Both rifles have very modest powder charges and velocities. The only real way to burn out one of these barrels in a hurry would be to blow through a whole pile of ammo (re: auto fire) in a very short period of time, and generate an huge amount of heat.
In practical hunting terms, the average shooter will never shoot out either a 6.5x55 or a .308. Target shooters are different, but they are held to different standards as well. For 95%+ of hunting, a rifle which shoots 1.5 MOA is perfectly adequate. For target shooting, it is not. I would venture a guess that the usable (1.5 MOA) barrel life of either of the two mentioned cartridges would be in the 7000-10000 range, providing it is not abused.

For an average hunter in North America who is not a handloader, I would recommend a .308, simply due to ammunition availability. As a side note, at typical hunting ranges (<250 yards), the .308 outperforms the 6.5x55 with similar weight bullets.
 
Doctorbowie said:
I have hunted extensively in Alberta with both a 6.5x55 and .308. . . .
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One thing I have heard is that moose are easy to kill, i.e., they die under less stress than other game animals. I have no idea if that is true.

For me, the larger ganme are elk. The elk around here (western Washington state) seem to require quite a whollop before they will drop rapidly. Unless I knew I was going to shoot one at fairly close range, I think I would leave the others at home in favor of my .280 Ackley. Maybe that is more than is required -- I just would feel more comfortable shooting a large bull elk (at several hundred yards) with something more powerful.

That is where I was coming from. If you ask a cross section of hunters how they would feel about shooting an elk at 400 or 500 yards (the average distance across the fields around here), probably most would think you were nuts. So my habits probably are not the norm. I tend to forget that.

Scott
 
I'm not sure I would know how to judge which animal is "tougher", but moose certainly do get a lot bigger. One thing to consider is that a lot of moose hunting is done at relatively short range. Shorter range generally means better bullet placement, and better bullet placement means cleaner kills.

Please understand, I am not trying to dump on you. I think a 280AI is a wonderful cartridge. However my Nosler book puts it at less than 100fps difference than a .308, both loaded with 150 grain bullets. Yes, a .284 bullet will outpenetrate a .308 bullet of equal weight and construction, due to a higher sectional density, but really the difference is academic. Due to being a wildcat though, it is not ideally suited to a non-handloader/beginner.

I think really, any factory round between a 25-06 and a 30-06, in a reliable and accurate rifle would be ideal. The biggest factor in killing game is bullet placement, followed by bullet construction. A well placed bullet which can penetrate to the vitals will kill game quickly.
I like the .308 due to cheap and plentiful ammunition. As mentioned before, either a Remington 700 SPS or a Savage are probably the cheapest way to get into a decent hunting rifle. I would buy stainless if possible, simply for corrosion resistence in poor weather. For a quality but cost effective scope I would look at either a lower end Leupold, a Bushnell Elite, or a Burris fullfield 2, probably in a 3-9X40mm variable.

There is little you could not hunt in North America with that outfit.
 
saturnine138 said:
I'm thinking about taking up hunting, and I might be doing some work over the summer with chronic wasting disease in deer which could also involve me hunting. As of yet, all I own in the way of firearms is a few .22s including a .220 Swift, and some shotguns. I know enough to know that taking a deer with a .22 is going to be incredibly difficult, and a shotgun isnt the best way to go either. I'm looking for a relatively inexpensive rifle, preferably bolt action, that would be good for hunting most everything short of bears. Any suggestions?
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I have the PERFECT rifle for you. I bought one of them the other day... Wal Mart has them on sale for $244.00.

Its the : Mossberg ATR 100 rifle

you can get this chambered for the .270, .243, .308. or 30.06 rounds.... i would pick 30.06 because i have been hunting since i was 14 and this is what i have always hunted with and what i use now... i have killed many a deer with this round and it will kill any living thing on the north american continent. you cant go wrong with this gun and this caliber. the Mossberg 100 ATR is the best rifle you can buy for the money and its got a synthetic stock in it, thats why i bought it , so i dont have to worry about banging up my Browning when carrying her into the woods.. but i also wanted a great gun that would be dead reliable and accurate. With a Mossberg rifle, you get both!!! You had better get one while you can... these things go fast for the price they sell at.
 
reconseed said:
...chambered for the .270, .243, .308. or 30.06 rounds.... i would pick 30.06 because i have been hunting since i was 14 and this is what i have always hunted with and what i use now...
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Heh. I've been doing an informal poll on this among friends, co-workers etc. and they've all said the same thing you just did. Those cartidges definitely work. Except the .243 is considered a step down from the other three...

mewolf1 said:
http://www.kirksvilledailyexpress.com/articles/2006/11/15/sports/sports1.txt>:thumbup: :D
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note: she had to shoot it twice with the .243 :D

30-30 is still plenty popular, guys who use them are quick to point out that a good clean shot is essential. SKS's (7.62x39mm) have a loyal fanbase, since they're cheap, reliable and comparable to the 30-30 in accuracy and power. My foreman at work killed a deer with a Ruger .44mag carbine, swears by it. A friend who first used a 12ga. slug only because he was in a restricted zone told me, "big holes bleed fast," with a very happy look on his face. Not so many .300 Ultra mags and whatnot, it's unusual to have a line of sight more than 150 yards around here.

Bear in mind, US military snipers use .308 Remington bolt-actions to great effect. I'm sure their rifles and ammo are pretty tweaked out, but hey.

To be honest, I started out thinking about a 30-30 or .44mag Marlin lever gun, because they're just plain cool, but everyone I've spoken to/everything I've read has advised me to step up to the big three mentioned above, but not up to the magnums. I'm looking at a .308, it just makes sense to me. Others more experienced and eloquent than I have already explained why.

Doctorbowie said:
In practical hunting terms, the average shooter will never shoot out either a 6.5x55 or a .308.
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A question about barrel wear on used guns... I know it's a scientific fact, but it really depends who you buy it from... did he put a 100+ rounds through it every month to keep in perfect shooting condition? Or did he fire 3 rounds at a paper plate every fall to sight in, and maybe shoot two deer a year with it? I know folks with 40-yr-old guns, good ones, that MAYBE have a couple hundred rounds through them, total. As Doctorbowie said, is that much wear even relevant? Not just within the barrel, but throughout the action, etc. Come to think of it, I haven't seen any blued steel or walnut in real bad shape, either, on friends' and relatives "used" rifles. Maybe I just have good friends?

Any tips on visually checking out a used rifle? Other than, does the bolt move, can you see light thru the barrel and stuff like that;)
 
just "bumping" a link: http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2d.rifles.htm

That's the one mewolf1 got that ballistics chart from... the site has a TON of interesting and informative articles on it. I highly recommend it. There's stuff in there on tweaking a M14 to sub-1 MOA accuracy, as well as very basic down-to-earth comparisons. No mall-ninja stuff at all.
 
My all time favorite rifle is the TC Encore. It's a single shot but the accuracy is incredible plus you have the versitility of a multi-use gun. It can be set up as a rifle, muzzleloader, shotgun and handgun. You have a huge choice of different barrel/calibers. For deer, the the 308 family of cartridges can't be beat. The 243, 7mm08, 260rem. and 308. All are based on the 308 cartridge.
Scott
 
GibsonFan said:
To be honest, I started out thinking about a 30-30 or .44mag Marlin lever gun, because they're just plain cool, but everyone I've spoken to/everything I've read has advised me to step up to the big three mentioned above,
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I will go against everybody else, the 30/30 and 44mag are two of my favorite whitetail cartridges, both will keep meat in your freezer out to 125 yds or so. If you are going to hunt where 150 yd + shots are the norm I would recommend something else, but where I do most of my hunting me and my Dad have probably put tons of meat on the ground, hogs and deer, with marlin 30/30s. Chris
 
+1 to Runningboar. The .30-30 and .44 magnum lever guns are just fine for whitetails. If you can hunt with a semi-auto (can't in PA) then the SKS or an AK with 5 shot mag work just fine as well and also do double duty if the world falls apart. Mac
 
Get eye and ear protection.

Assuming bears are not a problem, your rifle need not have
excess power.

We have way too many calibers. We have way too much
emhasis on statistics. Stay with common calibers; they
will do the job. Beware of large magnums; they are noisy,
even with ear protection on, and they kick like he11.
A hard-kicking, noisy rifle will hurt your accuracy and they
are not fun, for most of us.

If the area is heavily forested, the caliber need not be
flat trajectory, so a 30/30 is fine, with open sighted rifle!
Good to 150 yards with open sights.

If the terrain is mostly open, you will need a scope sighted
rifle, with a flat shooting caliber. At least 30-06, 308, or
flatter. A 270 is flatter. A 243 might be legal and is adequate
power and very flat shooting.
Good to 350 yards, for a normal guy, and further for highly
trained guys.

Good, off the shelf cartridges, are available. The Bullets are very
important. Avoid expensive partitioned or dangerous-game bullets.
Rather use bullets that are more accurate, made for deer sized game.
30 years ago, I used Sierra Hollow Point Boat Tail in 30-06
(same bullet as 308) and they were superb.
Nowdays, many good bullet choices are available in off-the-shelf
cartridges.

What kind of bolt action?

I like a "mauser-type" claw extractor, because they extract more
reliably. Cheap rifles almost never have a mauser action, unless
they are used (military actions). However, do not chase this as
the holy grail. If you decide to go for a used rifle you need to
study "condition assesment"; buying from a guy at the range where
you shoot it would help.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-170280.html

I never buy first models of anything; they may have bugs and
I want to read reviews and talk to others.
I am not familiar with recent models; I wish I could help on this.

I would like to try a scout type bolt rifle: scope mounted forward
of the receiver. They are reputed to be fast for target acquisition,
and easier to access the receiver (ejection/load port) -- oops, I was
thinking survival again.

Use google and look at other forums that are specific to firearms.

Good luck with the rifle choice, and the CWD work.
 
runningboar said:
I will go against everybody else, the 30/30 and 44mag are two of my favorite whitetail cartridges, both will keep meat in your freezer out to 125 yds or so.
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Yeah... I don't trust myself beyond 100 yards, regardless. :o Minute-of-beer-can is about my skill level.

Maybe I over-stated it the first time... I don't know anyone who really knocks those calibers, they just stress a good clear shot, which is the first thing anyway, so... The levers seem to be readily available and reasonably priced, too. The main advantage of the .44 seems to be that then you can talk yourself into buying a nice revolver to match, heh. (guitars... knives... guns... it never ends...)

Does anyone actually use .44specials for small game? Seems a bit much...
 
I use the trusty Remington .270 That bad boy uses a nice round that has enough knockdown power for a large white tail and is currently sighted in for 200 yds.

Figure out what you would like to hunt and then get a rifle that might be able to take down something the same as or even a little bigger. Keep the game portfolio diversified. The .308 or the .30-06 might be a good choice.
 
one thing to keep in mind if you get a scope.......it's far better not to cheap out on the scope. Many can and do get away with it but a nice bushnell or leupold is the way to go. Mounts are solid and the optics themselves can't be beaten.
 
saturnine138 said:
I have been offered a very lightly use Winchester model 70 in 30-06 for $425(including shipping). I havent much looked into pricing on Winchesters but I know they make good guns. Is this a good price?
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If it is a mauser action, yes, depending. Early years were, then were not,
then were again, I think. Check on the net for details.

What kind of accuracy does it get, with a 5 shot group?
If 2 moa, I would take it. If less than 2 moa, take it and run.

I have not followed prices recently, but they seem to be 450 to 800 new.

I would rather buy a used gun of known condition and accuracy than
a new gun of unknown accuraccy. Sometimes you can get extras like
scope mounts and scopte in the bargain.
 
Pman said:
Figure out what you would like to hunt and then get a rifle that might be able to take down something the same as or even a little bigger. Keep the game portfolio diversified. The .308 or the .30-06 might be a good choice.
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That's what I was thinking, pretty much. I'm told a 308 or thirty-ought is sufficient for black bear, which is about the biggest thing I'm likely to ever see, let alone hunt, in my neck of the woods. (all the elk and bison are on farms... I doubt they allow hunting ;) )
 
Old Mausers or Mosin-Nagants can be had for pretty cheap - both are accurate military surplus bolt-action rifles. Enfields can be found for pretty cheap too, I think
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I'd second that, especially the Mausers. an unissued one can be found for $250, good condition for $150 and I've seen ammo as low as 7.5 cents a round. also the swiss shmidt rubin is suposed to be verry accurate, however the ammo is pricy (compared to other surplus calibres)
 
I just had to put my.02 in :)
I have been hunting with a .270 win. since I could shoulder the thing.My dad loaded me up some great loads with ballistic tips.IMO they are devastating,I havent shot alot of deer but every single one fell like a sack O' potatoes.Shot placement is key,but when I butcher the deer and see the damage I'm sold on the ballistic tips. In like a diamond out like a cash register :D
 
Look into savage for excellent cheap accuracy. 243 is the closet thing to a combination deer/varmit round plus it offers low recoil. I killed a deer yesterday witha savage 243 at 300 + yardsand it droped in its tracks.
 
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