A History Lesson

Oh man, don't start up with the illegal immigration subject, my ears will turn to blue!................ LOL!!! ;)

Those two borders are ours (borders with Canada and Mexico). How they choose to handle their sides of these two borders is their business,............. but, what we do with our side should be ours.

Make a very solid wall that is deep as it is tall. The most up to date electronic and arial advancements should be used in conjunction with this wall. Place a sizeable group of armed guards along the borders length. Give these men the power to shoot to kill,........... um, I meant shoot to "stop" ;) if people do not halt when told to do so while attempting to cross into our country. Fine U.S. firms extremely high for hiring illegal immigrants. After three such fines, and if still in business after the heavy fines, cancel their licenses to perform any legal trade. If they try to circumvent any of this, prison terms should then be given to these traders. No illegal immigrant should be allowed to send an illegal immigrant child to our public schools. No financial government assistance to any illegal. Medical attention should only be given to illegals in emergency situations. During such medical treatment, the hospital should have to report them being there, and officials should come to prepare them for deportation when they are stable enough to get the heck out of our country. Police should be reinforced with more manpower where illegals are most rampant and all police agencies should have the power to arrest anyone that has no proof of citizenship. They should then hold them until the Immigration Dept. picks them up (an agency that also needs great revamping and reinforcement). No amnesty of any sort, including any dressed up version that still rewards for having entered our country illegally. No child born in the U.S. from an illegal immigrant should be automatically a U.S. citizen. Yes they may have been born here, but their parents illegal status should not then be rewarded by giving this honor to their children. If you are born in the U.S. to a U.S. citizen, or born in the U.S. to a legal resident, then yes, an American they are, and should be!

This and so much more should and could be done, IMO, but most of it will not pass the politically correct test!

I guess "Jimmy Jimenez" is a "RACIST" for even thinking such things! It's sad!

Yup, my ears are now blue! LOL!!! ;)
 
Almost every time statistics have been quoted in this thread we are told what this proabably means .
Conjecture is added , supposition is rampant and Unsubstantiated facts are added as the statistician feels is necessary to strengthen his case . I realise I am not a debator. (sp) My education is limited . I would think that even a high school student could drive a truck through the holes in some of the statements made here . A very big noisy truck . The driver could be blind and asleep . He would have trouble running into any pertinent facts that have not been tainted by bias . I just believe we are capable of more .
 
I guess "Jimmy Jimenez" is a "RACIST" for even thinking such things! It's sad!... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jimmy Jimenez"


Who are you and what have you done with the real Jimmy Jimenez?






munk
 
First they were red.

Now they are blue?

Did we pass through the purple phase already
 
Kevin the grey said:
Almost every time statistics have been quoted in this thread we are told what this proabably means .
Conjecture is added , supposition is rampant and Unsubstantiated facts are added as the statistician feels is necessary to strengthen his case . I realise I am not a debator. (sp) My education is limited . I would think that even a high school student could drive a truck through the holes in some of the statements made here . A very big noisy truck . The driver could be blind and asleep . He would have trouble running into any pertinent facts that have not been tainted by bias . I just believe we are capable of more .

Show us the light moses!
 
munk said:
I guess "Jimmy Jimenez" is a "RACIST" for even thinking such things! It's sad!... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Jimmy Jimenez"


Who are you and what have you done with the real Jimmy Jimenez?






munk

LOL!!! :)

Munk,

I get all worked up when discussing these subjects,............... why?......... Because I know I'm right,............. and it simply frustrates me that the other side won't listen to reason!.................... LOL! ;)

I am very proud to be an American, though it was not my fault that I was born in the great liberal State of NY....... ;)

We first had our great Declaration of Independence, then later came our great Constitution, which was solidified by our great Bill of Rights. We have something that is extremely special among the other inhabitants of this world. I just hope that we can maintain it's glory, maybe even try to recapture some of what we have lost in the past, so that we can be at our "full glory". We have already seen some watering down of our fundamental beliefs, but with enough true blood American spirit, hope is very much alive, no matter what the haters think :D

Can I get an AMEN!
 
45-70 said:
First they were red.

Now they are blue?

Did we pass through the purple phase already

Oh come on...................

Red, Blue, Purple, Smurple,............... you know what I meant,......... the blood pressure is RISING!................... LOL! ;)
 
45-70 said:
Show us the light moses!
The only guy I know with a light was looking for an honest man ......I think he is still searching . L:O:L

O:K: So I am hoisted on my own petard .
It couldn,t happen to a nicer guy . L:O:L

I think that with the inteligence shown to me(Read rubbed in my face . L:O:L)
We could avoid throwing in our own "facts" to flesh out weak positions .
 
Illegal immigration on the block for discussion too? You lads are brave indeed!

  1. I think immigration is a good thing, but I think immigrants should be documented and legal.
  2. You've got the laws already to control this. They need enforcing - and whoever is benefiting from having the laws NOT enforced needs to be "outed.".
  3. Illegal immigrants are filling a void in a demand/supply market for low cost labour. If the employers would stop hiring them, they'd stop coming. Unemployment they have back in their own countries ... that's why they left.
  4. The ways to affect markets are either to regulate them on the supply side (i.e. laws, border walls etc.) or to eliminate the demand for the product (cheap labour).
  5. Consumers can most effectively change the demand side, by agreeing to pay more for the products cheap labour produces, or to wait longer for them to be made. Higher prices (e.g. for houses) will pay higher wages ... employing legal workers ... and still leave room for employer profit.
But it seems to me that we can't have it both ways. We can have price savings from low-cost labour and pay a bunch of social costs here. Or we can pay higher prices and keep legal folks working here at home.

In a real way, the same thing has happened with the economics of manufacturing (now Chinese labour), and of IT development and support (India's labour). We're paying different social costs in those sectors - mostly job losses - but I don't blame an Indian IT worker for accepting a $45,000/year job for MicroSoft, even though it means that the $80,000/year worker who used to do that job in Seattle's now out of work.

Capitalism and free markets have some rough edges, even while they bring strong benefits.
 
Let's envision this wall with Mexico finished. Add a Wall with Canada. The US protected. We have Star Wars up. Our coasts are patrolled; nothing has changed, except no one gets in or out. We are interdependent and must provide everything we need ourselves.

What would happen?



munk
 
munk said:
Let's envision this wall with Mexico finished. Add a Wall with Canada. The US protected. We have Star Wars up. Our coasts are patrolled; nothing has changed, except no one gets in or out. We are interdependent and must provide everything we need ourselves.

What would happen?



munk
It's just people that can't cross borders? Imports/exports are still OK and at current levels?
 
TomFetter said:
Illegal immigration on the block for discussion too? You lads are brave indeed!

  1. I think immigration is a good thing, but I think immigrants should be documented and legal.
  2. You've got the laws already to control this. They need enforcing - and whoever is benefiting from having the laws NOT enforced needs to be "outed.".
  3. Illegal immigrants are filling a void in a demand/supply market for low cost labour. If the employers would stop hiring them, they'd stop coming. Unemployment they have back in their own countries ... that's why they left.
  4. The ways to affect markets are either to regulate them on the supply side (i.e. laws, border walls etc.) or to eliminate the demand for the product (cheap labour).
  5. Consumers can most effectively change the demand side, by agreeing to pay more for the products cheap labour produces, or to wait longer for them to be made. Higher prices (e.g. for houses) will pay higher wages ... employing legal workers ... and still leave room for employer profit.
Tom.


We need to get tough!

The few examples I gave above "are" tough!

We know what the problems are, we simply have too many wishy washy politicians. Some want to remain politically correct, some want the immigration, (especially from Mexico), because as they blend in and later gain amnesty and such, the majority of these folks tend to end up voting for the "Democrat" party. Then we have many Republicans that want to leave things be to continue catering to their "friends" that are using illegals for cheap labor.
For these reasons and many more, the obvious steps needed to really control this problem are not being made.

As for being FOR "LEGAL" immigration, that is something that most Americans on both sides of the issue are for. It's the "ILLEGAL" kind of immigration that pisses many of us Americans off!

We are known as a nation of immigrants, but that does not mean that just anyone anywhere in the world should be allowed to just walk in as if they have that automatic right.

I see each country as a neighboring house on the block. Each house has it's own inhabitants. Some houses on the block have nothing but nice people in them. Others have a mix of nice and bad folks in them. Some have all nice people, but the father/husband (head of household) may be a true @-hole. In any case, each one of the homeowners on the block has the right to invite to their property whoever they want. I feel this is how it should be handled with our own borders. You knock on my door, I either open and let you in, or I can tell you to go away. Sounds simple, and it really is, but our politicians sure know how to make a simple problem into a difficult one :mad:

This is "OUR" problem! Nobody elses. We don't need Fidel Castro budding in. We don't need the UN to dictate what we should do. We don't need to listen to Mexico or Canada telling us who we should or should not let in. This is our home, and we need to take the tough steps needed to stop the Bool-shat!

Now my ears are bleeding,........... Yes, they have now ruptured...................Thanks to all that helped this happen! LOL!............. :D
 
Yessir, Officer. I was settin' here mindin' my own business, and this here EAR just landed on the bench beside me, still glowin'.

That JJ fellow, now he's been sufferin somthin' fierce tonight, what with them ears startin' to act like streetlights and all. But them ears finally made a kinda "pop" noise, and blew clean off his head.

Danged if I know where the other one got to ...:D :eek:
 
munk said:
Let's envision this wall with Mexico finished. Add a Wall with Canada. The US protected. We have Star Wars up. Our coasts are patrolled; nothing has changed, except no one gets in or out. We are interdependent and must provide everything we need ourselves.

What would happen?



munk

I think you are confusing the "protecting our borders and controlling the inner immigrant magnet" idea with that of totally blocking all exit and entry to and from our country.

If you are an American with permission to enter a foreign country, take your passport and go. You are a foreigner with permission to enter the US, then bring the required documents and come in.
You want to sell us stuff from your foreign country, and it's all legit, more power to you. You are an American firm wanting to sell to a foreign country, and all is legit, more power to you as well.

If you are a truck driver coming in from Canada, or vise versa, if you are kosher, what's the problem?............. none.
Or one going to Mexico, or vice versa, and all is legit, no problem!
But, don't be a truck coming in with a weapon of mass destruction, don't be a truck coming in with a load of illegal immigrants, don't be a truck coming in with illegal drugs.

Back to my "house" example.............. the difference is like either leaving the doors wide open to your home and possibly enticing people to enter without permission, or locking them and people requiring to knock and be asked to come in or not......................... Get it? ;)
 
TomFetter said:
Yessir, Officer. I was settin' here mindin' my own business, and this here EAR just landed on the bench beside me, still glowin'.

That JJ fellow, now he's been sufferin somthin' fierce tonight, what with them ears startin' to act like streetlights and all. But them ears finally made a kinda "pop" noise, and blew clean off his head.

Danged if I know where the other one got to ...:D :eek:


LOL!!!!!! :D
 
Nordic Viking said:
Here's a link to the militia site in English, albeit badly translated :) : http://www.hemvarnet.mil.se/?lang=E
Well, I'm glad to know that as our Swedish guide, Lars, did not delve into that on my last trip to Finland, Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. He did say that the Swedes tried to stay neutral by making agreements with Hitler while at the same time supporting the tough Norwegian resistance. Though we may not see the right to bear arms and what is happening in the world the same way, I did like your country and hope to see more of it someday. Our tour really only covered Stockholm. Also, one of your countrymen, Raoul Wallenberg?(I know he mentioned the Swedish name is different) is a great hero for rescuing many refugees and Jews.
 
I think if we are going to talk about illegal immigration we are going to need a new thread. Maybe Nordic Viking has a Swedish view of this as we were told that immigration, even legal, has become a problem there too. Norway has less of a problem because they tightly control immigration - so we tourists were told.

NEW THREAD?????
 
Nordic Viking said:
The Swiss aren't Europeans, they're Swiss ;) - Europeans are elected members of the European Union.

You are technically right, but to most of us monolingual Americans all you people who live across the big North Atlantic and somewhere west of Russia, are Europeans by location. Even you Vikings and the French too. :D
 
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