A Lament for Kershaw

I didn't get into them until about two years ago.

But Kershaw has ended up as one of my favorite knife companies.

Mainly because of the flipper-tab opener systems and they offer tip-up carry on most of their knives too.
 
o4tg said:
I like KAI a lot, though I admit they do have knives that I would consider embarassing to carry.

I just bought a Zing and it's sized perfectly..... For a 10 year old. So instead of return it, I bought a Thermite since I can never have too many knives. I also checked out a Swerve which looked good on paper, but felt like complete and utter garbage in real life. It is amazing that a company can make something as awesome as the 0300, then also have some of the crappiest knives made to appeal to the completely uninformed.
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Wow, somewhat insulting all around don't you think? In one fell swoop you called the customer base uninformed, knives are garbage, and overall crappy. With so many manufacturers to choose from, why not try something els? First off, neither Rick Hinderer, Ken Onion, Tim Galyean, RJ Martin, Ernest Emerson, Frank Centofante, and a dozen others design "crap" or "utter garbage". You have quite a lot to learn it seems based on this post of yours. While I'm not a fan of every knife Kershaw produces, but to say the things you do makes no sense whatsoever. No one expects to like every design a company releases, but then again very few have posted in such an obtuse and uninformed manner.

Of course, not every model will fit everyone's needs, hand, or budget equally. That much is a given, but overall, they must be doing something right. They just inked a pret big deal with Emerson, they have some of the most sold knives on the market with the Blur, Leek, Chive, Shallot, etc.
 
RevDevil said:
Wow, somewhat insulting all around don't you think? In one fell swoop you called the customer base uninformed, knives are garbage, and overall crappy. With so many manufacturers to choose from, why not try something els? First off, neither Rick Hinderer, Ken Onion, Tim Galyean, RJ Martin, Ernest Emerson, Frank Centofante, and a dozen others design "crap" or "utter garbage". You have quite a lot to learn it seems based on this post of yours. While I'm not a fan of every knife Kershaw produces, but to say the things you do makes no sense whatsoever. No one expects to like every design a company releases, but then again very few have posted in such an obtuse and uninformed manner.

Of course, not every model will fit everyone's needs, hand, or budget equally. That much is a given, but overall, they must be doing something right. They just inked a pret big deal with Emerson, they have some of the most sold knives on the market with the Blur, Leek, Chive, Shallot, etc.
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Umm, I was definitely not saying all of their knives are crap in any way? Some of their Chinese offerings are, but most definitely the majority of their knives are not. When I was speaking about uneducated buyers, I meant the typical Walmart customer who wouldn't know the difference between a Freefall and an 0560 other than the price. I certainly can't knock Kershaw for catering to that crowd, but as an enthusiast I definitely don't have to like those products.

I don't know where you got the idea I said all their knives are crap and their buyers uninformed. Especially since I mentioned me buying two of their knives in the past couple days to supplement the various others I already own. My point was that they cater to a wide range of people with highly varying quality levels, and while I may not like their lower end models, I understand the desire to cater to the people who purchase proeucts at that level.
 
There are more Walmart shoppers than aficionados, the ratio is something like 100:1. Thomas W and Sal Glesser have both stated that those high dollar knives don't sell when they make 1,000s of pieces, which is why there are so many low dollar offerings. Not everyone that buys a knife needs Elmax, or 440V. They are content to purchase a solid knife for the $25-$40 margin, that is where Kershaw has been. The Tilt, Volt, and a few others are the exceptions. Basic economics plays a very large role in these decisions, companies need to produce profits. I'd call us lucky to have theOnion designs still made in the US, like em or not they are popular, they work, and they sell.
 
I definitely agree. My brother in law was carrying a TacForce that had an outright dangerous liner lock. I let him borrow a Ganzo axis lock I received in trade, and he actually came up to me today to show me a picture of a Benchmade he wants to save up for. Low and behold it was a Rift, just like I used to own.

That's why I still support KAI. Those cheap knives are better than many in that price range and will hopefully be a gateway to them buying better models. In the meantime, I do feel frustrated as the focus shifts more and more towards that crowd. I watcthed that happen to Gerber and CRKT whom were my favorite brands a one point, so naturally I'm a bit pessimistic. That is just my opinion though, which is only worth about $1,000 a year in total knife purchases.
 
I bought probably 15 - 20 Kershaws in the last year. Most were in the sub $30 range, which I love, but also several Blurs including some of the limited purple and green flavors. So, for me, they are doing a whole lot right. I appreciate very much their budget lineup, which we just don't see (at least in terms of the number and variety) from other makers.
 
As a consumer myself, I understand the frustration. I've love to see some of the new models made with better steels, in the US, even as LEs with a higher price tag. But it's going in the direction it's going, as long as they stay in business that is what really matters. If I had to guess, I'd say their US production is jam packed with ZT goodness at the moment, and a few Onion, Galyean, and Martin pieces.
 
RevDevil: I get that $120+ knives don't sell as well as $25 or $40 knives. But $60-70 knives do sell. Beyond the Knockout, Blur, and Camber, it almost looks like Kershaw is neglecting that element of their catalog. If that is the case, fine. They still have a great deal of variety. It would be nice if ZT picked up the slack in that sector of the market, though. :D
 
Bugout Bill said:
RevDevil: I get that $120+ knives don't sell as well as $25 or $40 knives. But $60-70 knives do sell. Beyond the Knockout, Blur, and Camber, it almost looks like Kershaw is neglecting that element of their catalog. If that is the case, fine. They still have a great deal of variety. It would be nice if ZT picked up the slack in that sector of the market, though. :D
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We don't know that with any certainty, unless we can see some real numbers. It's an assumption that is made by a lot of us when we beg for limited edition runs, and stuff. Look at Spyderco as an example, they've accomodated the consumers by boosting run quantities, only to turn around and have them sitting on shelves for months on ed, being sold for 30% of the original retail price (CPM - D2 Para is one example, the Spyderco R was another.)
 
Bugout Bill said:
RevDevil: I get that $120+ knives don't sell as well as $25 or $40 knives. But $60-70 knives do sell. Beyond the Knockout, Blur, and Camber, it almost looks like Kershaw is neglecting that element of their catalog. If that is the case, fine. They still have a great deal of variety. It would be nice if ZT picked up the slack in that sector of the market, though. :D
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Problem is that KAI seems to think that they don't want to muddy the waters and take anything away from ZT's overbuilt tank image. I've asked a gazillion times for a small solid ZT flipper with KVT and premium steel and handle. To their credit they moved a little with the ZT 0770CF but that's a 3.25" blade and many need a 3" blade. As a matter of fact, it doesn't matter if it was Kershaw or ZT but they certainly have a gap in their offerings. Perhaps they should keep Kershaw for the low-end and ZT for the tank crowd and create a new company called Mildly Tolerant. :)
 
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RevDevil said:
We don't know that with any certainty, unless we can see some real numbers. It's an assumption that is made by a lot of us when we beg for limited edition runs, and stuff. Look at Spyderco as an example, they've accomodated the consumers by boosting run quantities, only to turn around and have them sitting on shelves for months on ed, being sold for 30% of the original retail price (CPM - D2 Para is one example, the Spyderco R was another.)
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Spyderco wouldn't do sprints if they couldn't afford to. Considering how fast some other sprints sold, I'm sure that they can eat the cost of D2 Para's not selling well.

RamZar said:
Problem is that KAI seems to think that they don't want to muddy the waters and take anything away from ZT's overbuilt tank image.
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One of the things that confused me about the Knockout is that they could have added 3D G10 and it easily would have fit into ZTs catalog. It doesn't really fit with Kershaw's line up IMO. Same could be said of some ZTs to be fair.
 
Bugout Bill said:
One of the things that confused me about the Knockout is that they could have added 3D G10 and it easily would have fit into ZTs catalog. It doesn't really fit with Kershaw's line up IMO. Same could be said of some ZTs to be fair.
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It's an ongoing image identity issue for Kershaw/ZT. There's definitely a gap in their combined product line.

There were some great knives from Kershaw like the original Tyrade, Tilt, Speedform and Volt all with composite blades, carbon fiber, titanium, etc. made in the U.S. Most of the exotics are now within the ZT Limited Editions. I remember last year many were objecting to smaller ZTs, limited edition ZTs and the lack of high end Kershaws.
 
RamZar said:
Problem is that KAI seems to think that they don't want to muddy the waters and take anything away from ZT's overbuilt tank image. I've asked a gazillion times for a small solid ZT flipper with KVT and premium steel and handle. To their credit they moved a little with the ZT 0770CF but that's a 3.25" blade and many need a 3" blade. As a matter of fact, it doesn't matter if it was Kershaw or ZT but they certainly have a gap in their offerings. Perhaps they should keep Kershaw for the low-end and ZT for the tank crowd and create a new company called Mildly Tolerant. :)
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That's an interesting perspective, one I agree with. Speaking as one who owns several thousands of dollars of full-size ZT knives (got a new blackwashed 0300 in my back pocket right this second).

Even Strider has a small knife. I have a PT clipped to my watch pocket. 2 3/4" blade. Clean, sweet design. It rocks. Could it use a more exotic blade steel than S30V? Maybe. Could it use some exotic 3D milled scales? Maybe. I'm pretty sure I'd pay for all that, judging by what I've paid for in the past.

Nevertheless, one cannot spin a big company around on a dime for a great many reasons, including your supply chain, your menagerie of designers (I'm a designer myself--I get it), and what management feels comfortable doing after everything that the marketeers tell them. It's not easy, especially when you're at the top of the heap already, when you know what you are currently doing works.

In my limited experience, corporations don't change direction easily or without a great deal of motivation.
 
I've learned to stay away from the Kershaw budget line, for these reasons:
- Most of them are assisted and cannot be de-assisted.

Actually that pretty much covers it. I had some other reasons in mind when I started typing this, but it's pretty accurate. I have no interest in the blur due to the recurved blade and Kershaw has done a great job of discontinuing all the knives that I would have wanted (RAM, Zing, Groove, etc).

I don't think Kershaw is going downhill in any way. What I have noticed, however, is that there seems to be a relatively long-standing high amount of variance in quality control. I've handled 5 NIB Grooves and each one was a little different from the other in lockup, pivot action, centering, and initial sharpness. One was absolute garbage and one was absolutely perfect. The other 3 filled in a pretty good spectrum.

I had a Tanto Zing for a while, and it was one of the best manual flippers I have ever handled. I've handled other Zings and they ranged from perfect to terrible.

I bought a Brown/DLC Skyline a little over a year ago and sold it fairly quickly due to play and how terrible of a flipper it was. I recently bought three Damascus Skylines while the prices are cheap (one to keep, two to gift) and ALL THREE are dead perfect. They all flip wonderfully, lock up with no play, are perfectly centered, and are very very sharp.

I guess what I'm saying is that you can't accurately judge the product based on one instance. You can, though, noting that there is such variation, judge the quality control. Overall, I have found that about 80-90% of the knives I get from Kershaw are either fine or perfect. That still means that one in ten are garbage in a red box, but I still like the brand and purchase, use, and enjoy their products.
 
Comeuppance: We are pretty much in the same boat when it comes to Kershaw discontinuing everything cool. I also don't like the Blur, more from an ergonomic standpoint than anything. I haven't noticed to much in terms of QC, but I haven't handled all that many to begin with. The only problem I have noticed is their annoying tendency to not sharpen all the way to the base of the blade, as well as uneven edges. Everything else has been decent, though.

The only other persistent problem I have noticed seems to be the over-hyping of some of their budget offerings, like the Cryo, Thermite, and (to some extent) Skyline. Could it be that this is the substitute for higher end Kershaws?
 
They created ZT and ZT is killing it...seriously killing it. Spyderco has some sprint runs and benchmade has the gold class but neither hold a candle to the hype/marketing/momentum carried by the zt lineup IMO.

I think most of the Kershaw downsides stem from the success upmarket with ZT- you can only push out so many knives. So capacity is allocated to the knives with good margins that are in the most demand. pretty simple really.
 
Kershaw line up can't tread to much into
ZT territory.

Defeats the purpose of the brands.

As for Kershaws line up.


They have cheap stuff
and nice stuff that you don't have spend a chunk of change
to get a quality piece of steel .
 
Ryanol said:
They created ZT and ZT is killing it...seriously killing it. Spyderco has some sprint runs and benchmade has the gold class but neither hold a candle to the hype/marketing/momentum carried by the zt lineup IMO.
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Many of the ZT's that we covet are very limited in number. I'm glad the upcoming 0562CF is standard production. They are killing it in the framelock and tank knife segments. Killing it in the high end collectibles too. As far as not holding a candle to other brands some of which offer many varieties other than frame locks....it's gonna depend on the individual, you like ZT's and framelocks that much, that's what you're gonna believe.
 
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