A Lament for Kershaw

uxo2 said:
Kershaw line up can't tread to much into
ZT territory.

Defeats the purpose of the brands.

As for Kershaws line up.


They have cheap stuff
and nice stuff that you don't have spend a chunk of change
to get a quality piece of steel .
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So basically, the market shifted, high end Kershaw's weren't sexy anymore, Kershaw becomes the budget division of KAI.
 
IMHO
Sure looks like it.

Bugout Bill said:
So basically, the market shifted, high end Kershaw's weren't sexy anymore, Kershaw becomes the budget division of KAI.
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I consider myself a Benchmade boy with Spyderco close second.

But after looking whats in the drawer.

I have more Kershaws by themselves than BM and Spydies combined.
 
Bugout Bill said:
Comeuppance: We are pretty much in the same boat when it comes to Kershaw discontinuing everything cool. I also don't like the Blur, more from an ergonomic standpoint than anything. I haven't noticed to much in terms of QC, but I haven't handled all that many to begin with. The only problem I have noticed is their annoying tendency to not sharpen all the way to the base of the blade, as well as uneven edges. Everything else has been decent, though.

The only other persistent problem I have noticed seems to be the over-hyping of some of their budget offerings, like the Cryo, Thermite, and (to some extent) Skyline. Could it be that this is the substitute for higher end Kershaws?
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When you say over-hyping, from whom are you seeing the hyping? I mostly see people talking about liking, carrying, and using them. It's not my cup of tea, but a lot of things aren't. I would say the Bodega and all of the versions of it are overhyped, but I do see a number of people talking about how much they enjoy theirs.

I think overhyping is in the eye of the beholder. I don't like assisted knives and will probably almost always think that any hyping for one is too much. The Skyline, given the prices you can get it for (often under $30) is really a fantastic knife, but I only say that now having handled three of the newer Damascus ones.

I don't know if it's a substitution thing - a lot of people just flat out cannot personally justify spending more than $50 on a knife. To most people and to many on this forum, a $50 knife is higher-end. Honestly, it really is. Once you start getting into the $100+ range, it's a crapshoot as to whether you're actually making a wise purchase. Many of us here will drop over a hundred on a knife and call it a bargain, but we have to keep in mind that, as long as one has a warranty and is moderately proficient at sharpening, most knives over $50 are purchased for the enjoyment of the owner and not necessarily for a price-representative increase in performance and function.

I would probably be just fine with a Cold Steel Code 4 for the entire life of the knife. I would get by and it would handle anything I threw at it in a day. I could touch up the edge in five to ten minutes if necessary, and it would be ready for use like nothing had ever happened.

But, that's not what I want. I have a large CF-inlaid insingo sebenza on the way, I have a TiLT in my desk, a Kizer 4412 in my front right pocket, a Echelon in my back right pocket, a CS Tuff Lite to my left, a Southard completely unused in a box, and two CRKT Mah Erasers with customized scales that cost more than the knives did. I also have a Spyderco Pacific Salt in my backpack, and a Boker Haddock DLC and three Damascus Skylines sitting unused in a drawer. This is all after cutting down my assortment by a huge amount.

The Cryo, Thermite, and Skyline all are exceptional value if you happen to like the features on the knife. Well made and with a full warranty from a fantastic company. You can pick up a Skyline for about 25 bucks on the bay, which is what an MTech would cost you in any brick-and-mortar store. Spyderco can't sell a knife that isn't 8Cr13MoV for that kind of money. CRKT? Forget it. Benchmade? Not a chance. Cold Steel, known for producing cheap but quality knives, still can't beat that. The closest you'll get is a Tuff Lite, and that's still a lockback 2.5" blade in AUS8 compared to a 3" flipper with 14c28n. The Thermite and Cryo offer otherwise unavailable blade shapes from a manufacturer that stands behind their products at a price that you would assume they didn't.

I have a lot of companies I would call overhyped for the price:quality ratio that they offer. Benchmade made the list after the MAP thing, then there's Hinderer, Strider, and others - but, realistically, something is only overhyped if you don't agree with the hype. That makes the perception of overhyping relative and extremely personal.

It's almost impossible to look at this kind of thing objectively. The definition of a "good" knife is up to the user, and that is why Smith and Wesson, Gerber, MTech, and others still exist. Some people pick up a $15 Gerber and are pretty much set for years to come. Some people would notice all of the flaws of the knife and look for something better. The thing is, neither person is right or wrong.
 
I agree with and see most of your input. I like how you yanked down the price of the Skyline to $25 bucks though to support your argument lol. That's a good debate tactic.
 
Comeuppance: Overhyped in the sense that people try to make the knife to be more than it actually is. Like discussion of whether or not a Thermite would accept Hinderer standoffs. Or the lengths people are willing to go to modify knives like the Cryo. Or this widespread belief that the Skyline is the perfect EDC knife (whatever that means).

If tinkering is your thing, great. But a Thermite won't be an XM18, neither will a 0566 for that matter.
 
It's not the knife companies that discontinue the products, the market does (by a lack of sales). So when people stop buying a specific knife long enough, it gets replaced by something that will sell. I don't think any knife manufacturer would purposely shoot themselves in the foot by canceling production on a great selling item.

(I read a post about this topic recently, by someone that knows a thing or two about knives. That was the conclusion reached)

A call from Kershaw (Oregon) to KAI HQ:
Thomas: You know, we're selling way too much of models A, B, & C. The profit margin is entirely obese at this point. We are making way too many nice knives with great steel.
KAI President: Well, that isn't good at all. We're pulling the plug on A, B, & C and moving production out of the US.
T: Great idea. Maybe we can throw them a bone and at least have it made at a Wal-Mart price point?
KAI: I think you are onto something. One step closer to world domination via 8Cr13MoV! Muaaha ha ha!
T: Uh, yea... muaha ha ha ha!
 
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RevDevil said:
It's not the knife companies that discontinue the products, the market does (by a lack of sales). So when people stop buying a specific knife long enough, it gets replaced by something that will sell. I don't think any knife manufacturer would purposely shoot themselves in the foot by canceling production on a great selling item.
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If limited runs make up the majority of your sales, it can be justified. Microtech is the prime example of this.
 
Stays Sharp said:
I agree with and see most of your input. I like how you yanked down the price of the Skyline to $25 bucks though to support your argument lol. That's a good debate tactic.
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I see them on the bay for 22-25 almost every day. I have Kershaw as a saved 'bay search on my phone.
 
Bugout Bill said:
If limited runs make up the majority of your sales, it can be justified. Microtech is the prime example of this.
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Microtech is a super small company. They have less than 20 employees I think. It's not a good comparison really.
 
Really comeup? That's a great deal. Don't have a Skyline anymore, sold my Damascus years ago, too bad I won't have a use for it or Id pick it up for that price.
 
Stays Sharp said:
Really comeup? That's a great deal. Don't have a Skyline anymore, sold my Damascus years ago, too bad I won't have a use for it or Id pick it up for that price.
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Aye, my thoughts as well. Now that I have a Damascus one, I'd rather have it than a 14c28 one at half the price - especially since I already know that the one I have is perfect. I don't know if I'll even keep or use mine - but I certainly have no inclination to pick up another given that I have my preferred version of that knife with absolutely no mechanical or aesthetic issues whatsoever.

That doesn't keep me from considering it whenever I see one at that price, however. Even though I already have a better one, the "what a deal!" part of my brain makes me at least pause...
 
o4tg said:
I watcthed that happen to Gerber and CRKT whom were my favorite brands a one point, so naturally I'm a bit pessimistic. That is just my opinion though, which is only worth about $1,000 a year in total knife purchases.
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Speaking of horrid looking knives!! What happened to Gerber and CRKT - they went off of the deep end.
 
I don't know about the rest of you, but this kind of hit on a personal level.

If it had not been for they Kershaw leek i received in a trade long ago I wouldn't be here today.
I wouldn't have the collection I do and I may not even carry a knife!

when that leek first dropped into my hands, I had to have it, and I didn't know a damn thing about it except that it felt right and I liked how it looked and performed.

Now, they have the ZT line, which is great!! I regularly EDC either 566 550 or 560.
But there is a void where that Kershaw love used to be and still is! But slightly sidelined due to what the lower quality models have done to their name.

Last time I checked people had the right to voice their opinion. If someone thinks a knife is crap they are entitled to that. We're talking about very cheap knives among a crowd who does not seek them. In my opinion Kershaw is for sure serving the uninformed and probably making a killing in doing so. Sold out? Maybe so. But they've got the ZT line up too and that means they're sitting pretty playing all ends of the market. Kudos if that's the case.

I'm happy with my little ZT line up, and I miss what I felt like Kershaw used to be. But one must make way for the other I suppose, that's the way it's has to be. Oh well. All good things come to an end :)

The contrast of steel in the Emerson collabs speaks a lot to me. They have similar designs. If you were on their page, didn't click the specs tab and not know to do so you wouldn't even know the difference as a non knife person. Boo yah for them, a passing of a generation for us.
 
NeilB said:
That's an interesting perspective, one I agree with. Speaking as one who owns several thousands of dollars of full-size ZT knives (got a new blackwashed 0300 in my back pocket right this second).

Even Strider has a small knife. I have a PT clipped to my watch pocket. 2 3/4" blade. Clean, sweet design. It rocks. Could it use a more exotic blade steel than S30V? Maybe. Could it use some exotic 3D milled scales? Maybe. I'm pretty sure I'd pay for all that, judging by what I've paid for in the past.

Nevertheless, one cannot spin a big company around on a dime for a great many reasons, including your supply chain, your menagerie of designers (I'm a designer myself--I get it), and what management feels comfortable doing after everything that the marketeers tell them. It's not easy, especially when you're at the top of the heap already, when you know what you are currently doing works.

In my limited experience, corporations don't change direction easily or without a great deal of motivation.
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To stop an aircraft carrier or an oil tanker or a large cruise ship at full speed takes many many fathoms.

I get it that you cannot change directions that fast.

Consider the fact that KAI created ZT almost from scratch back in early 2006. A great feat and success no matter how you slice it.

Their mistake was to overly emphasize the overbuilt hard-use tank factor. Once you're super-glued to an image it's difficult to break free and that's what's going on with ZT. You try to cater to a new crowd while mollifying the base.

Somehow KAI needs to cater to the aforementioned gap in their product line.
 
mrdabble said:
I don't know about the rest of you, but this kind of hit on a personal level.

If it had not been for they Kershaw SCALLION for me.

I wouldn't have the collection I do and I may not even carry a knife! WOW...Not carry a blade...

Now, they have the ZT line, which is great!! Better

But slightly sidelined due to what the lower quality models have done to their name.
I see nothing wrong with that.Most companies have cheap models

If someone thinks a knife is crap they are entitled to that. DONT BUY IT IMHO the tremor

I'm happy with my little ZT line up, and I miss what I felt like Kershaw used to be.
I like most of Kersaw's line up because there are very few ZTs that catch my eye or hurt my thumb ""550's""
because the detent sucks and even after fixing it it sucked less.
But I like my 350.

But one must make way for the other I suppose, that's the way it's has to be. Oh well. All good things come to an end
I dont see them falling like Gerber.

the Emerson collabs speaks a lot to me.

And I dont like Emersons or Striders
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And now I have to write this to post my replies above.:barf:


the Jerking/BATING Smileys Gone...But It is in the sidebar when I go advanced..:eek:
 
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