A little demo of the American Mutt bench stone.

Great to hear how it's doing for you so far! Try putting a little weight into your strokes and you'll be amazed at how quickly it takes the steel off. It's definitely a "thirsty" stone but it soaks up the water fast and, once it does, it does a good job of keeping a film on the surface. :) :thumbup:
 
I look forward to trying one of these, though so far I'm holding off waiting for the new "Arctic Fox" pucks to come in. Any idea when that will be?

Oh, and round/rod version of the Mutt would be handy I think.
 
We should be receiving the pucks later this week if things go as anticipated. We'll be getting some parallel-sided oval bar stones (also known as a variant of the American pattern scythe stone) done up in the American Mutt blend soon and it should be quite a handy "abrasive file" for use on all sorts of tools, especially machetes and other large blades, agricultural tools and machinery, etc.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Except you'd need to define what "a little" and "a lot" of loose grit would mean, and have some way to capture and measure it. As such, you'd very quickly be spending an awful lot of time in quantifying rather than just using the tool and describing the experience and results qualitatively.
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Hi,
Huh?
The quantification would be very qualitative for the most part
and it wouldn't take long,
its just like a regular sharpening except on a scale
and you get a number you can relate to with a scale of your own :)

a little is like a pinch of salt
stone surface looks basically unchanged
blade rubbing on stone feels slightly more scratchy
scratch pattern left on blade is very harsh and linear
touch/dab finger to stone and it picks up grains of sand
rub finger on glass to check that it scratch the glass

a lot is like a layer of mud/frosting
stone surface changes color, looks coated in mud,
blade rubbing on stone feels very smooth since its riding on mud/slurry
scratch pattern left on blade is very smooth and random /shot-peened,
touch/dab finger to stone and its mud sticky, you get mud on your finger


I've done done quite a bit of searching on "P grade bond hardness"
and couldn't find numbers I could relate to more than "its hard" :)
to really make sense of it i'd have to get a p-grade wheel

The manufacturer ought to have an idea of the pressures required to break the bond
if they used a grade-tester , which are supposedly used for quality control
... but they could be simply grading by volume of binder to abrasive ...
it would be interesting to know :)
Thanks
 
I'm looking into industry publications to see if I can find any relevant standards and will be asking my manufacturing partner as soon as things slow down just a little bit here with the post-moving cleanup. :)
 
I got to use mine tonight, came in this evening after work…. I've got to play around with it some more. I didn't soak it, just wet it under the sink briefly… seemed to not be releasing fast enough for my uses… hopefully that will change the behavior for me.
 
Make sure you get it saturated. You don't need to soak it, per se, you just should get the stone good and full, otherwise it's just sucking the fluid into the middle of the stone and not doing you any good over using it dry. You can fill the stone under the tap by running water over it, watching it absorb into the stone, and then running more on, until it finally pools and stays there. At that point you're free to go to town with it and it should perform nicely. :)
 
Maggot Brain said:
I got to use mine tonight, came in this evening after work…. I've got to play around with it some more. I didn't soak it, just wet it under the sink briefly… seemed to not be releasing fast enough for my uses… hopefully that will change the behavior for me.
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I found soaking it for a few minutes made a night & day difference in how it performed. Just wetting it didn't help. As 42Blades said... long enough until water will stay on the surface.

Also, if "releasing" = stone wear... mine doesn't seem to wear noticeably at all... surprising considering how well it's grinding. When it turns black I just tip it and squirt water on it... black comes right off.

I've done a couple more knives... still liking its performance.
 
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I soaked it, water does not stay on the surface for me (makes sense, super porous). If the stone does not release abrasive at all, then it just wears smooth and/or clogs… this is the state of my stone currently. It is still cutting but is loaded/worn and quite slow compared to as boxed.

Attempted to refresh the surface using 24 grit Nubatama which was able to get some more aggression back into the stone, still nowhere near as boxed. It wore down quickly again to cutting slowly (maybe 5-10 minutes of heavy grinding), the problem is with using stones like these (strong bond) with water instead of oil is unless you are generating very high pressures the abrasive just blunts to slow wear and starts rubbing vs. cutting.

What is the recommended method for reconditioning the stone? I have an Atoma 140 but am hesitant to use it on this one due to the bond strength and diamond content of the stone. I think I know of something that might work, TASK garden hone seems like it would be a good choice as they are reported to work well for reconditioning Norton Crystolon/India.

I will not be using this stone with water anymore, personally. That's not to say it doesn't work for it's intended usage (repairing or changing edge geometry), just not quite as efficient as it likely should be for those tasks. That beings said, I am curious to see others response to the stone.
 
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Sounds to me like you haven't fully saturated the stone...it holds water quite well and once fully saturated water will stay on the surface. For reconditioning I'd recommend a diamond wheel dressing tool like this one.

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You really should be fully saturating the stone and using firm pressure. I've put a lot of miles on mine at this point and using that method you'll get long-lasting durability with consistent aggression.
 
Mine arrived today!

So, I would like to preface this by saying I use very high quality Japanese Waterstones on a daily basis and this is a comparison of the American Mutt to those sharpening tools. The following is my unbiased impressions of the American Mutt sharpening stone.

I started by dropping it in my water bucket and waited for the bubbles to stop. I tested the stone on a VG-10 Tojiro Santoku, Henckles petty, and my S110V native. The stone is coarse enough to grind any steel put in front of it but I found the binder of the stone too tough for efficient sharpening action. Even under what I consider heavy sharpening pressure I was finding it difficult to get the stone to cut with any speed.

I tried lapping with my DMT XXC because I noticed the stone surface was unevenly textured but this seemed to smooth the stone a bit and slow the cutting action even more, it did make the surface feel much better though. To try and bring back some surface texture I decided to use a 150 waterstone to lap the mutt, this seemed to work but cutting action was still fairly slow. I was expecting something in the 100-200 grit range but am finding this to be closer to a 320 stone in scratch pattern and an 800 grit stone for speed.

I used my Shapton Glass stones for the comparison because of the grit selection I have available and also because they are very hard stones with high cutting speeds. I started with the 120 Shapton but quickly found that was far too aggressive of a stone to make a fair comparison to the Mutt. I moved up to my 220 and then finally my 320 before I found a similar cutting speed and abrasive drag. As I started my comparison I was very quick to notice the negative impact of the very hard binder of the Mutt stone. The first few strokes start strong but you can quickly feel the stone stall at about the point you would expect some abrasive release.

I started to think I was just using too hard of steels to test so I also tried some 1095 from a GEC and some 420HC from buck. The soft stainless of the buck ground fairly well but I think we were all expecting that, 420HC is not exactly wear resistant. Being 1 for 5 on various steels was not a good start though and my excitement was quickly fading for this stone. With a low cutting speed and Glazed over sharpening feel I pulled out my Shapton Glass 500 and spent a few minutes cleaning up the edges I just tested the Mutt on.

In conclusion,

I can't knock it too much, after all it is only a $7 stone and recycled stone material at that. I do think this would be a great stone if the binder was about half as hard and the stone was another inch wider and an even 8 inches long. I think the potential is there but as it currently sits I can't say it is something I will be recommending for coarse grinding.
 
Couldn't help but give this one a try. Especially at the price point. Even if it works twice as well as the $7 Norton stone I was gifted, that makes it worth my money. I usually reprofile most all of the blades that I purchase and have yet to find an efficient way aside from power tools (this method I would like to avoid btw) to get through one of these projects in a timely manner. I'll be sure to stop back once it arrives and I get some time on it.

Thanks.
 
The Manticore series should have an overall coarser action as it will have a higher percentage of coarse grit and lower grit rating on the finer grit contained in it. Do note that with the stone containing as wide a grit range as it does, it responds unusually to surface preparation. It is very easy for you to end up leveling the coarse grit, causing it to no longer protrude sufficiently to bite deeply. The protrusion of those diamond wheel dressers is high and does the best job of restoring a rough texture to the surface if you accidentally smooth it too much. Inherently the stone will bite a little less aggressively than a stone purely made of the coarsest grade of grit within the stone, but also leaves a finer finish while grinding faster than the finest grit within the stone. Additionally, if you routinely use water stones as your standard you may not be using sufficient pressure. When using the Mutt stones I press the blade into the stone quite firmly, almost as if trying to scrub a stubborn spot off of a floor--use the stone at a height where you can lean into it with your body weight a bit. I think you'll be able to find the right methodology for your uses if you stick with it. But yes, it's ultimately an economy stone with some unique behaviors, contrasting with the more premium Arctic Fox stones or the upcoming Manticore and Bull Thistle lines.
 
got mine yesterday, received a thankyou gift too, thank you Baryonyx Knife Co! I'll try and get around to soaking it in water an sharpening something with it soon if I can. tried it dry on a small d2 blade and formed a burr somewhat quickly. so, sofar so good!
 
I received mine a few days ago and did a quick thinning of a White2/iron san mai kitchen knife that was a little too thick. First, I REALLY like this stone. Initially was going to use it as an oil stone, but decided on water. Soaked in a bucket of water for about 15 minutes, then pulled it out and set it on the DMT plastic base. I needed to add a little water during the thinning session, a little here and there. Indeed, the scratches seem to be finer than a 140 stone would normally produce. And it's not like wrought iron, or even White 2@62HRC is difficult to abrade by any stretch of the imagination. Stone quickly had the blade thinned out above the original edge shoulder, and the swarf stayed on the stone surface for most of the session, easily rinsed with the next dose of water. I went to almost apex, then apexed with a DiaSharp EF, then EEF. The stone had ZERO dish after the one thinning session. Some small amount of metal flakes were embedded in the stone toward the end of the session, which did not rinse away, but a very quick conditioning with the DMT XXC plate took them right out. I used heavy pressure while grinding on this stone, too.

Overall, I am impressed with the speed that it cuts, resists dishing, I had NO mud buildup whatsoever under heavy pressure, just metal residue suspended by the water, easily rinsed off. As mentioned, scratches seem much finer than a 140 stone would normally give. Very impressed, especially at that price point. I think this is a must have low grit stone, for my tastes anyway. I have a Sigma Power Select 120, it's like solid silicon carbide if memory serves, but really needs to be used UNDER running water. I like the Barynox over the Sigma for thinning tasks, so far.
 
managed to sharpen one knife, did pretty well, finished it off with a $2 fine ceramic from Baryonyx also, then a leather strop. soaked it in water for a few mins. water didnt stay on the surface, maybe i have to let it sit in water longer, ive only ever had diamond stones prior, so this water stone is new to me. but i flipped the stone once water on the top was soaked in and that seemed to work well since the table had plenty of water on it and that stuck to the underside (top side once i flipped it).

didnt take to long at all. i havent sharpened with stones for a while so i had to figure out my technique again lol, so it took a bit longer but once i got back in the grove of things the stone worked very well.
 
It's worth noting that by water staying on the surface, it's a thin film, not a big puddle. But the surface shouldn't just feel a bit cool, it should have a noticeable shine of the water film. :)
 
After soaking for a few minutes... I'll get water that will basically "pond" on the surface... and slooowly soak in... easy to keep wet at this point...

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...my experience anyway.... ;)
 
^Yup! To further elaborate, water poured on it when it's saturated will pool, and not drain, and if you were to tip the stone at that point to drain off the excess, there would still be a thin visible film on the surface. :thumbup:
 
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