A Matter of Honor

G

George Hill

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Feb 11, 2000
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Some time ago - when, a year maybe? (under my old member name Ogre)
I mentioned that it was a reflection on a man's honor that should a man offer a knife for sale, and someone sends money for it upon an agreement made either posted, or via personal E-mail... that the seller is upon recieving the payment - obligated to either ship the knife as soon as able, or return the money. If that knife has become damaged or otherwise unsalable at the agreed value - then the seller should find an alternate knife or a replacement... This to satisfy the purchaser - and save face... Its a Matter of Honor.

Many BF Members agreed with me.

Now I have this situation thats kinda the same - with Andrew Gleason. You can read that thread titled "Andrew Gleason" to catch up to whats going on.

It has now been what? 8 Months about - for a modification that could have taken him about an hour to do - with an estimated agreement that the turnaround time would be about 2 months.
I finally got an email from Mr. Gleason - stating in effect that the knife would be completed shortly and mailed to me upon completion.

Still no knife.

I feel as if I have been jerked around long enough. I am now of the opinion that Andrew Gleason has no Honor. Since this knife has been worked on by such a man - should I ever actually recieve it - It no longer has a value to me. I dont want it.
It will go up for auction the day I get it and the proceedes will go to my child's school.
As far as I am concerned this is over.
Gleason can commit sepuku with my knife.
 
Wow, you mean even if he refunded your money and overnighted your knife, you still would consider him a man without honor? Corduroy, wherever you are, hope you are hearing this? I would tend to believe that you would value your honor/good name over some money. In any case I hope there can be a better end to this situation.
 
If he finished the knife and overnighted it to me now at this point - it would be for a show only... left alone he would not have done so willingly. Crocodile tears.

If he had honor he would have taken some action on this matter a long time ago.
 
Funny thing nowadays about "honor" and "integrity", it appears they don't mean the same as it used to. Something about a 'man's word is his bond' doesn't have the same impact today. My Dad used to say "you can listen to what a man says, but the true measure is to watch what he does"--some things don't change with the passage of generations.

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Lead,follow, or get the hell out of the way!
 
Yeah My Dad said "Character is what a man does when no one is looking...", which has always kept me hopping.

Procrastination is a terrible thing. Hope it turns out well for you.

Brandon

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"You should never never doubt what nobody is sure about..."
 
Tangus, "Honor & Integrity" still do and will always have the same meaning. unfortunately too many people don't understand their definition.'tis a sad thing.

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russ aka bladezealot. a cat almost always blinks when hit in the head with a ball-peen hammer.
 
I'd like to show an example of someone's personal integrity and honor. A short time ago, Tangus knew I wanted a handmade leather sheath and offered to make me one. A little nervously(we've never met-only know each other online) I mailed him a $500 folder so he could make it form fitting. He could sense I was a little nervous so he gave me his 800 number at work so we could talk. Bottom line is-knife was back in 8 days, sheath was beautiful and he wouldnt take a dime. Wouldnt even take money for postage.
Anyway, my point here is if you ever have occassion to have dealings with him-rest assured he is a man you can trust.

BTW-I think you guys have given Corderoy more than enough time-it's time to take further action. Just my .02

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Dave (Phil.4:13)

Recent Interview with God

Questioner: God, how could you let those events take place in Columbine High School?
God: You must be confused-I am not allowed in schools!
 
Hey George... Sorry to hear that you're also going through a hard time with someone.

I guess the words "honor" and "integrity" doesn't have any meaning to these people anymore. And we're the casualties as a result of that.

Good luck. I too am waiting for something (almost a year now) and seems like I've been screwed around all over again. Almost the same situation though (got email and was told that problem will be resolved, got us waiting for nothing again.)

It's so frustrating whenever people take advantage of the trust you give them.
frown.gif


Dan
 
I, unfortunately, have had similar experiences. I had a completely new custom .45 1911 made up by a reportedly good and reliable gunsmith. He estimated the time for completion at 2-3 months. It took 11 months, and this was with me 'reminding' him about the situation on his newsletter he ran, with a lot of support for me from the other posters. When I got the gun it was unsafe, and after two trips to another gunsmith, it still will not feed hollowpoints.

I also have a knife on order which has greatly exceeded the time estimated, but in this case, the knifemaker has serious personal problems, and I am giving him whatever time he needs, without reservation.

Courduroy has always seemed like a person with integrity on the forum, and I wonder if some problems might not be affecting him as well.

Walt
 
Let`s be a little careful about throwing words like honor and integrity around here.Sure it is disappointing that Drew hasn`t finished your modifications.Maybe it is because he is honoring his obligations to his full time employer,which helps him fulfill his obligations to his family.How about the responsibility of paying his bills?
Obviusly this hobby doesn`t put a lot of food on the table.
I am not saying that you do not have a valid reason to be disappointed and angry.But I think it is a little heavy handed to go through the opening scene from "Branded" over this.I do not know Drew personally.
I think this may be a "mile in the moccasins"
thing and maybe should be treated as such.
Accusations of lack of honor are best made over matters of a little greater inportance,IMHO.
David
 
George-How well I understand and agree with your point.I recently cancelled a custom knife order from a maker in Maryland because I finally reached a saturation point with all the excuses and "You'll have it next weeks";months had passed since the promised delivery date...I had sent full payment up front in the form of a certified check;fortunatly I got my money back with only two phone calls.Brother,I TRULY understand where you come from.Regards.
 
George,
I can understand your disappointment and frustration. I have tried behind the scenes to rectify this for all concern and I thought I did and to be honest I do not understand why you do not have your knife back. All I can think is that my friend Drew is trying to complete your mods even though I advised him just to send all the knives back. He did not cash any checks.

I will say however that Drew Gleason IS one of the most honorable men I have ever known and I have really valued his friendship over the last year. That being said, I still think your knife should be in your hand at this point. There are other things going on in the employment and health arena for Drew though I am not at the liberty to go into that without his permission. I will say that I know this experience pains him greatly and that he truly wanted to rectify this situation. I will tell you what. I went so far that I asked Drew to mete out my knives to my sons in the event something happens to me. I trust him that much.

Dr Welch deduced that some things are happening in Drew's life right now that makes this a sticky situation and he is right. That being said, I advised Drew to forego the mods and just send everyone's knife back. My bet is that he wants to finish it for you. I hope if that is the case when you get it you can get some enjoyment out of it and that you have it back ASAP. I feel that it should be sent back to you no matter what stage the mods are at that point.

I am sorry you are going through all this. I know how you feel but there are things happening that mitigate this somewhat. Frustration however, can't be mitigated sometimes and for that I am truly sorry.

Respectfully yours,

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~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
 
Seppuku is correct - thanks for pointing out a minor Typo.

Thanks for the support guys.

I take matters of Honor very seriously - thats the way I am.
I am not with out understanding.
There was a short time where I was making knives - I made several for some people close to me. Small fixed blades of my own design... Kinda mini Gurka type blade. They were well recieved - I had an offer for a trade for an item for the next knife I made. I got the item - and started the next knife - which also never got done. Here is what I did - I sent a Spyderco Police that was double the value of the item. This satisfied the person - and satisfied Honor.
This was tough situation. I didnt know where I was going to get my next meal. My family situation & income was in shambles. I had a suffered drastic losses - but I made good on my word.
Thats the most important thing.
So Yes - I did walk in those mochasins. I hiked the Rockies in them too. Honor could still have been satisfied.

This is the last I will acknowledge this issue or Mr Gleason. Should this knife ever be returned to me - whatever the condition - It shall be liquidated or traded as fast as possible.
 
Why will you sell/trade the knife/s as soon as they return? Even if the mods are completed to satisfaction?

Afraid some "bad honor" mojo might have stained the knives? lol
smile.gif


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You could put nacho cheese sauce on it...
 
Well, Stompman...you outta pick this one up when he get's it back, as he seems anxious to let it go...maybe you'll get a good deal, or a posible trade. You really should man, like I've told you before, Drew's work is AWESOME!!! ...and unfortunately, it looks like it will be a while before you'll be able to have him do any custom work for you...just a thought. Just outta curiousity, what knife is Drew doing for you George?

-AR

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- AKTI Member ID# A000322
 
Benchmade Mini AFCK.
Contoured titanium clip, anodized blue.
Blue anodized titanium scales - thin, to reduce the profile of the knife.

Would make an killer carry knife... Oh - the blade retaining the black coating BM put on it.

However - I dont expect this knife to ever show up. If it does - you'll see it posted for sale or trade... Even if it'd flawless - i would not keep it. I may be a touch bitter about it.
 
It saddens me when someone would actually want to buy Georges knife and ignore the fact that he was treated this way just because it wasn't happening to them. I would not even take that if it was given to me.

I discussed having Drew make a knife for me a long time back. In detail over about a month I went over the design including the heat treat, geometry and materials. Finally we settled on a design. After that Drew stopped communication and I never heard anything further.

I realize that things can happen to delay work, it has happened to me and I would suppose everyone else, but I can't think of an excuse for simple ignorance of the other people involved especially when considering the time frame involved, we are not talking weeks or even a few months here.

Bladeforums has about 6000 members here, in a few years this could easily exceed 10000. This could grow to a very powerful body and have a positive influence on the knife industry and possibly even as a political body - however we need to start to see outside of ourselves in order to do this.

-Cliff
 
I'll give you $20 and s&h+i, George
smile.gif
. Bad honor can really depreciate the value of a knife..

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You could put nacho cheese sauce on it...
 
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