A new perspective on how quickly things can go bad...

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xxguitarist

Joined
Jun 12, 2007
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This weekend I did some car camping at the local family grounds, with 5 friends. I've done a bit of camping, and some backpacking. One of the others had done a bit of camping, and the rest were thouroughly inexperinced. Last night went well, we set up tents, I made a fire and cooked dinner on my backpacking stove. We went to bed a bit late, I was the first to wake this morning, got out of the tent & went to work getting fire supplies pulled together again. I had my stainless mora ( it was raining yesterday) and a hatchet, made shavings, and split some wood with the hatchet for kindling. I was trying to make some smaller bits of kindling, larger than shavings though- and using my hatchet to do it. Stupid, sleep deprived me, I held the pieces of wood while I split them. I'm sure plenty of you can see whats coming next, I took off the tip of my thumb, not to bone, but beyond skin. At this point I was still the only one awake, and went to patch myself up, realizing there wasn't much I could do despite a full first aid kit, it was just going to bleed straight through anything. I held a paper towel on it for a while, and one of my friends woke up, came out of the tent, and I showed them my thumb. We decided to wait and see if the bleeding slowed down. I'm not the type to be sick from my or other peoples blood, at all. However, after a bit, I started to not feel very well & sat down at the picnic table. I hadn't eaten yet- oatmeal was coming after fire preparations. I got light headed, dizzy, and felt somewhat sick to my stomach. Shortly later, I woke up face first in the dirt. At that point, a few others had woken up, but didn't know what was going on. The first friend and I decided that probably meant it was time to go get some help. She took me to the local urgent care, where I got my thumb and the newly aquired scrapes on my face patched up.
They used some sort of foam pad that melts into the wound, sealing it- I may have to find some for my first aid kit, I was mostly hopeless to truly seal this up, though the bleeding had slowed by the time we got there.
Cleaning up camp later was a bit more of a chore, as has been daily activities since.
Be prepared and know you are able to do tasks one handed, and use caution even on simple tasks!
I'll be switching to batoning any firewood that cannot stand on its own from now on!
 
try to buy some stuff they sell @ brigade quartermaster. i forget what it is called but it looks like sand or saw dust. it is supposed to stop venus and arterial bleeding. just pour it on and apply pressure. it mixes with blood and forms a scab (barrier). it was developed by the military. most construction jobsite firstaid kits have it now. i got two packs for my family and i. i agree, !*it can hit the fan quite fast. pick some up, a good investment! safety first!
 
I know atleast two people that ended up with some kind of chemical burn using Quick Clot. Not sure if it was a burn but they described it as one and needed medical attention after using it.
Just be careful
Rick
 
we never used "quick clot" in baghdad for that very reason, some units carried it but our head PA said no way. instead we used what was called a chitosian dressing that seal up wounds when exposed to moisture. worked alot better IMHO
 
Cayenne pepper will help in a pinch as well. I know where you are coming from. About a month ago I almost took off a finger with a Chefs knife. I had one hell of a time trying to do anything with one hand while the blood poured from the finger. I was home alone and I knew I should go get stitches but was to stubborn. I wrapped it tight and held it above my head while getting gauze and baindaids ready. I have some stuff called QR but I couldn't get it opened up to use.

When we think about survival gear and kits, we usually assume that we will be able to function other wise if we have the stuff. In reality many survival situations accrue when or because we are injured or at least partly disabled. Thats why survival gear should be simple to use and as fool proof as possible. Don't just figure that you will be able to leap tall buildings and such in these times. Look for products that are easy to open maybe even unwrap a few band aides ahead of time. That kind of thing. Its easy to think of these things when everything is normal. Conditioning the body is easy compared to conditioning the mind.
 
I wonder whether this was more an incident of glucose or blood pressure?

I am not a healthcare person but it does sound like your passing out has to do with something along those lines.

Hope you feel better.
 
chrisaloia said:
I wonder whether this was more an incident of glucose or blood pressure?

I am not a healthcare person but it does sound like your passing out has to do with something along those lines.

Hope you feel better.
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I believe it was actually a mild case of shock (the pain barely even registered ever, though I do have a pretty good tolerance.), based on my first aid training. It was likely compounded by low blood sugar, possible mild dehydration, etc. Just a lot of things coming together & going bad causing me to pass out.

The hardest part about dealing with this, first-aid wise, was that ther wasnt even anything to stitch closed, the chunk of thumb was still in the piece of wood :o

I think I'll be looking at some of these products, does anybody know how available they are to civilians?
 
Had you been taking aspirin or advil/motrin??? These act to inhibit blood clotting...not a good choice for those who go in harms way or have high risk of physical injury...
 
Nope, no asprin.
I didn't realize Ibuprofen thinned blood or prevented clotting. I hadn't had any of that either, though.
I guess that Tylenol/Acetaminophen would be the choice, then?

The doctor offered me a 800mg motrin perscription, I don't see the need for it & will just be taking the basic antibiotic.
 
docdredd said:
we never used "quick clot" in baghdad for that very reason, some units carried it but our head PA said no way. instead we used what was called a chitosian dressing that seal up wounds when exposed to moisture. worked alot better IMHO
Click to expand...

This is absolutely correct. Quick clot should only be used for Arterial bleeding that cannot be stopped with a Tourniquet. It WILL cause chemical burns. Chitosan Dressings are excellent however at 120 bucks a bandage it should be used for what it was intended for also, Arterial Bleeding that cannot be stopped through normal methods.

I'm no expert, but just went through a Army course dealing with this very thing.

For small cuts, I use cotton balls that have been soaked in antibiotic ointment and duck tape. In my opinion wilderness first aid should focus on the major medical emergencies like severe bleeding, breathing, and breaks/sprains. Those asprin and bandaids in most peoples kits only go so far.
 
Seems like it would take quite a bit of blood loss to induce a major blood pressure drop. Conisder donating blood in amounts of 500 mL (albeit some people to faint under this condition). Keeping well hydrated would compensate for some of the blood volume lost; drinking something like gateraide or juice would provide sugar as well.

Glad it all turned out well for you. It is almost impossible to anticipate what the cause of an accidant will be. You can only try to plan ahead of what your response under a given set of conditions will be.

Last year on another forum, one member reported the loss of a family member about this time of year. The person was starting an outboard motor (pull-start). Lost his balance, fell in the chill water right off his dock. The hypothermic shock prevented him from being able to swim. He wasn't wearing his PFD, although it was sitting on the seat.
 
By now you've probably thought of several other ways to make kindling, but long ago I learned to use a small stick or a previously split piece to hold the chunk upright while you split it with the hatchet or a large knife.

That "bad feeling" you got after bleeding for awhile was the beginning stages of going into shock I believe. Over the past summer I kept having an artery blow out in my nose which produced unstoppable bleeding. It's hard to believe you can bleed that much from an uninjured nose! After I'd bled for an hour or two I experienced the same feeling you described, only I didn't keel over in the dirt. The first time this happened I took my first ambulance ride. I learned just a little every time it happened after that. On my fifth trip to the hospital they did surgery to clamp off that main artery deep between my eye and my nose. Feeling shocky is really disconcerting, isn't it?!? I got hot and sweaty, weak, nauseated, and my vision began to blur with little "starbursts" around lights. People, do something constructive before you get to this stage! Soon you won't be able to think straight or to get some help!
 
Conan would have just stuck it into the fire! :D

I had something like this happen at a sportsmens Expo a couple of years ago. I was showing my nephew the Speedsafe opening on a Kershaw leek. I went to close it one-handed while distracted by taling and managed to snip a thin layer of thump clean off! :eek: I carry a Kershaw Ken Onion every day and am intimately familiar with the knife's operation but I guess the Leek just snapped shut a little faster than I was expecting. I manage to hide the wound from the vendor and my nephew by wrapping it in a paper towel i had in my pocket, but the thing just wouldn't stop bleeding. My nephew caught on a few minutes later when I was in the men's room tending to it. Sucks to loose cred like that! :o

-- FLIX
 
Fieldtestornothing said:
Chitosan Dressings are excellent however at 120 bucks a bandage it should be used for what it was intended for also, Arterial Bleeding that cannot be stopped through normal methods.
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We've used ChitoSeals, Glycosols, Syvek patches and any other seals on the market to close arterial punctures post Angiography.

My experience with the miracle patches isn't that great. For most arterial punctures direct manual compression proximal to puncture is the best method to achieve hemostasis. I usually only use a patch if I've got an non-arterial oozing puncture that won't seal.

Chitosan is a platelet aggregator which seals the wound by pulling platelets to the wound to form the clot. With a large cut I would bandage, apply compression, elevate above heart. That being said I do have about 36 patches in my personal kit (expired 8/07 so they had to be disposed of).

As for your passing out, I'd wager you had Vagal response. We sometimes see it happen with patients post procedure.
Intense pain, may cause a temporary, exaggerated vasovagal response by your autonomic nervous system. As a result, your heart rate and blood pressure drop, which reduces blood flow to your brain. This results in a feeling of warmth, lightheadedness, dimming of vision and hearing, and even fainting (vasovagal syncope).
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My mother in law is an ex nurse / traditional medicine buff as well. This Lady is amazing.

I asked her about the best thing to carry in my pack for a severe cut, that would get me by in the best way possible until I made it to a Doc.

She told me to go out in her back yard, and pick some Yarra or Yarrow? (not sure the correct spelling), It kind of looked like what I used to refer to as chigger plant, but some had tiny blue flowerlets, and other had yellow.
She told me to take the leaves off the stems, dry them and keep them in my pack.

She also gave me a little education as to how during the War between the states, the Soldiers would carry it with them to help clot wounds.

I did as she suggested, and the only time I have used it was for a trial run when I cut myself shaving - worked great, but needs to be moistened a little by water /saliva to help it clot properly - unless it is green (freshly pulled).

Amazingly no sting - at all.

A friend at work got a nasty cut on one of the doors, and gave him some - worked for him as well.

You can pick it wild, and seems to be readily available in the mountains (Eastern US), she also gave me some seeds she bought - going to plant them in my yard, as well as some of the wild.

Worked for me.

Be Well,

sp
 
Ouch - reminds me of the night I was knifesturbating with a few glasses of red wine under my belt. The tip of my thumb is still slightly squared off.

This thread is a good reminder of why it's just so important to be carefull and methodical in the bush.
 
xxguitarist said:
I was trying to make some smaller bits of kindling, larger than shavings though- and using my hatchet to do it. Stupid, sleep deprived me, I held the pieces of wood while I split them. I'm sure plenty of you can see whats coming next, I took off the tip of my thumb, not to bone, but beyond skin.
Click to expand...

I did something similar many years ago - splitting kindling next to a fireplace with a machete. Not only was I holding the wood, but I was also having a conversation and I'd been drinking. :o

Needless to say, I cut deep enough into my left index finger to require a visit to the ER for some stitches.

Glad you're all right and you only lost the tip of your thumb - nice thing about doing something "stupid" is you never forget the lesson you've learned. Personally, I've learned a lot that way... ;)
 
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