A new thought on the survival shows oln Discovery

[ROCK6]

On the other hand, if you allow yourself to suspend belief a bit and read the information as an 'what if scenario' then you might like it a bit better. Consider Ray Mears, where everything goes perfectly all the time. He makes no attempt to demonstrate 'reality tv', yet his show works quite well as an educational piece and people don't seem to hate him or call him out all the time. I truly think it is the 'reality' style that gets the hackles up.

Goop point Ken, but I think CP has a point about getting beyond the "reality" stuff (or edited crap) and try and pull out a few of the gold nuggets. Most of the shows are entertaining, what's nice is if you can toss a few educational tidbits in there.

I had forgotten all about that thumb-loop method with the fire spindle that what's-his-nuts did on the Man-Woman-Wild show. I like those little techniques. Even Bear (yeah, I know...), made an intersting little vertical fire with a split branch stuffed with tinder/wood which provided a platform for his cup of water.

I think you do have to recognize some of the "stupid" risks that occur...my son often will point them out The challenge is to find those little educational pieces of info or techniques that you haven't seen before.

ROCK6

 

[kgd]

True enough Rock, sometimes I get have my doubts though. I was using those pick-up lines from Larry of Three's Company for years without any success whatsoever...

 

[s7brad]

I believe I saw somewhere that a man was stranded overnight in cold conditions and credits Les for saving his life from calling upon an old episode of survivorman.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I think talking about their mistakes can be beneficial.

I agree.

Though it may have read like it, I did not mean my OP to say "only talk about the good things", or the "if you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything" crap.

Definitely talk about what was wrong (if it was, sometimes it's just different).

But that's different from bashing the show or the people doing as stupid "cjuz itz not fer reelz".

OK, take the food 4 feet off the ground hyena episode. What did they show you there? They showed you to NOT LEAVE YOUR FOOD WHERE THE LOCAL WILDLIFE CAN GET IT. There, you learned something.

Showing what not to do is sometimes as, if not more, important than showing what to do. See, by showing what not to do in that situation, instead of driving it into the audience's mind that you HAVE to do such and such with your food, it provokes thought on "How do I make sure that doesn't happen?"

What about Dave and Cody's show? Several times, one or both have said "Man, that was stupid. There's no friggin way we should have done that."

But why did they do it? If you find yourself in that situation, you may come up with what they did as a possible first solution. Then you remember the show "Oh yeah, remember when Dave and Cody did that and the trouble they had? Let's do something else."

So you can learn from the mistakes just as well.

But don't say they're stupid, for all you know they set that situation up to show you what NOT to do.

Here's another reality check:
A "real" survival show would flop. Know why? Know what the biggest problem is in a survival situation? BOREDOM. Sometimes you have nothing to do but sit around a wait awhile until the proper time comes that you can do something. Survival is boring, it's uncomfortable and it sucks.

Even though this is a survival forum, we're really not into survival here. We want to go to the woods to see the scenery and smell the roses (hiking/biking), practice old-timey skills (bushcrafting), or get away from it all and enjoy ourselves (camping).

Sitting in a debris hut drinking what water we can get from the morning dew and eating 5 grasshoppers a day for a week is not what we're interested in.

Not only that, but such a show would be a waste of money showing what it's really like. Les Stroud's was as close as you're likely to get, and he edited out most of the time he spent.

So why not make an entertaining show that presents (yes, and sets up) circumstances to show a variety of things that can come up, and ways to deal with them and what not to do?

 

[anewrnn]

I watch any and all of the survival shows I can. U pick up some good ideas and they are all outdoors which is where most of us would like to be with our kids/pets having fun, but for most the outdoor time is leisure time, and we arent usually going to be in a bad situation. I have totally turned into a bushcraft nut the last year or so. I really like the idea of being able to build shelters/survive.

 

[KuRUpTD]

Great thread CP :thumbup:

A "real" survival show would flop. Know why? Know what the biggest problem is in a survival situation? BOREDOM. Sometimes you have nothing to do but sit around a wait awhile until the proper time comes that you can do something. Survival is boring, it's uncomfortable and it sucks.

Yes It's boring to watch on TV but for the person actually trying to survive I'm pretty sure boredom doesn't even enter the equation.

Even though this is a survival forum, we're really not into survival here.

I doubt anybody ever wants to be in a "true" survival situation since it would then mean that your ass is on the line and the steps you take could determine whether you live or die but the skills and knowledge shared on this forum could help prepare a person for such an event. Obviously these skills need to be practiced, sure you can read all the books and blogs that you want and know in your mind that rubbing two sticks together can create an ember and give you fire but if you've never attempted it before good luck with that.

 

[kgd]

Even though this is a survival forum, we're really not into survival here. We want to go to the woods to see the scenery and smell the roses (hiking/biking), practice old-timey skills (bushcrafting), or get away from it all and enjoy ourselves (camping).

Yep that is pretty much the truth. I'm not really all that interested in pain and suffering and certainly don't take my off-time to engage in such. Its one of the reasons I sort of gravitate towards the bushcraft mentality. Practicing those old-timey skills is entertainment in itself and you don't have to buy a truck full of gadgets to do so. On the other hand, trying to prompt up bushcraft as 'the ultimate survival skill' is also rather silly and misses the point. I might know how to do bowdrill and can get that fire going pretty consistently when I'm in an area I'm familiar with, but when the chips are down I'd really rather have that firesteel with me. Knowing bowdrilll does help me increase my chances of getting fire with the firesteel but it doesn't superimpose the survival skill and intuition for need for fire.

People on this forum have laid a heavy critique on bushcraft as a marketting term designed to move product. Point of fact, the term survival is a far more effective marketting term and you need look no further than the fact that the shows we are debating are termed survival and not bushcraft.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Great thread CP :thumbup:



Yes It's boring to watch on TV but for the person actually trying to survive I'm pretty sure boredom doesn't even enter the equation.

OK, example.
I was homeless for quite a while in an early period in life. I quickly learned that squatting in cities got you rolled from the homebums, the po-po, or both. The po-po rousted you every chance they got. Apparently they think it's illegal to not have a home. The "good folk" torment you, prod, poke and provoke you to no end, because they figure that you can't do anything to them, and then wonder why they get their legs broken and go about crying how "violent" the homeless are, conveniently leaving out their endless provocation.

So, I went about living in the wilderness when I wasn't in town earning money at day labor or temp jobs. My Boy Scout days really helped, as I would have been screwed had I not had those basic skills. At first it is a frantic race to get yourself situated. Then it's BORING. Can't check your traps every hour, you'll scare away what you are trying to trap. Can do some fishing, but that's largely a waiting game. You can only stare at a map for so long plotting your route before you go all glassy-eyed. My best friends at the time were my notebooks and a bunch of pens, plus any book I could scrounge up.

Ever hear of hobos selling 'Zines? 'Zines are hand drawn, hand written pages of doodles, comic strips and stories that they write in their down time. They sell them for a little cash because there's no use in dragging a bunch of paper around with them. They draw them because it keeps them somewhat sane. How much of Survivorman was "Yep, I'm sitting here all day again. . .". . .cut to next scene. . .? Because survival is BORING.

I doubt anybody ever wants to be in a "true" survival situation since it would then mean that your ass is on the line and the steps you take could determine whether you live or die but the skills and knowledge shared on this forum could help prepare a person for such an event. Obviously these skills need to be practiced, sure you can read all the books and blogs that you want and know in your mind that rubbing two sticks together can create an ember and give you fire but if you've never attempted it before good luck with that.

I agree. Which is why I hope people will develop the skills and proper set of tools (sorry skills guru, you need SOME gear), to make what would have been a survival situation into an impromptu camping situation.
The best survival situations are the situations in which your survival is never really in question.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Yep that is pretty much the truth. I'm not really all that interested in pain and suffering and certainly don't take my off-time to engage in such. Its one of the reasons I sort of gravitate towards the bushcraft mentality. Practicing those old-timey skills is entertainment in itself and you don't have to buy a truck full of gadgets to do so. On the other hand, trying to prompt up bushcraft as 'the ultimate survival skill' is also rather silly and misses the point. I might know how to do bowdrill and can get that fire going pretty consistently when I'm in an area I'm familiar with, but when the chips are down I'd really rather have that firesteel with me. Knowing bowdrilll does help me increase my chances of getting fire with the firesteel but it doesn't superimpose the survival skill and intuition for need for fire.

Very true.
I like to balance skills and gear.
Bushcraft is fun, and great to practice.

If it's truly survival, I'd rather have gear.

Example: it's freezing. My car overturned into a river. I get out, but I need a fire right friggin now. I'm not using a bow and drill. I'm not even using a firesteel. I break out the lighter or stormproof matches and see if I can get to my gas can. Yep, napalm and a match for me, boys.

If I don't NEED a fire right now, then sure, I might practice my bow and drill or firesteel firemaking.

When my life is on the line? I'm cheating like hell.

IMO, even if you like old-timey gear like I do, it's a good idea to have a survival kit with some modern stuff that really increases your chances of living (AMK heat sheet or bivy, lighters, matches, flask of napalm, some chlorine dioxide tablets, etc.).

 

[kgd]

At first it is a frantic race to get yourself situated. Then it's BORING. Can't check your traps every hour, you'll scare away what you are trying to trap. Can do some fishing, but that's largely a waiting game. You can only stare at a map for so long plotting your route before you go all glassy-eyed. My best friends at the time were my notebooks and a bunch of pens, plus any book I could scrounge up.

Makes a lot of sense to me and I appreciate the example. It is funny in one context how we romanticize things like SHTF scenarios or running off to live in the wilderness. In the end though, few of us really want to give up many of the entertainments we do enjoy in society. It is truly great being able to take the best of all worlds, having access to modern day medicines/healthcare, internet, Hollywood movies and theatres while at the same time being able to take a week off to go camping, relax in nature as part of your downtime, go fishing/hunting or just enjoying the nature.

When we go out there its kind of like what you just described. Its all flurry of setting up camp, enjoying in the enthusiasm of doing things like fishing or hunting because you haven't been able to do that activity for a week or a month or 12 months. Go beyond two or three weeks in that environment and many of us would get restless. Les Stroud, who built his off-the-grid house, doesn't live there anymore. It got in the way of his career. Some people go further than that, but I suspect the majority of us posting in this place are actually pretty integrated in society at large and have a touch romanticized vision of what real wilderness living is like.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Yep, I still fantasize about having my log cabin on a mountain somewhere in Montans, near a cold lake -- with internet access! LOL.

 

[Doughnut]

Why don't we turn this thread into posting examples of what people do right in these shows?

 

[Cpl Punishment]

My original intent was a little broader: Why do they do what they do?

If someone's only response to that is some pithy quip about "They do it to run up ratings", don't post here.

 

[g123]

CPL Punishment,

Here is what I posted on another forum that is bashing Dave and Cody.

It seems we see things the same.

"Here is the deal,

I do not know either guy personally, but I do know that Dave has given more free survival information than any other survival instructor out there and that I am thankful for.

I said it earlier in this thread; survival is boring for someone watching. Most of the show would have been watching them do mundane tasks under real situations. That is why some of the show is staged. Without the audience there would be no show. Therefore the show is set up and sometimes staged the way it is, but the techniques are real and do work. Take it for what it is.

I would like to thank both of them for making this knowledge known to many people in this country that do not have a clue about the outdoors.

Also, these guys by bringing the outdoors main stream have helped a lot of people trying to make a living selling outdoor gear some extra income. This show has had to help with some outdoor gear sales and maybe have some Dad teach his kids how to camp."

Geoff

 

[MrPan]

Why don't we turn this thread into posting examples of what people do right in these shows?

You know, that's a good idea.



I said in another thread I believe that drinking from the antifreeze over flow tank was something I wouldn't do.

Well, I did write it down and then a few days later I did a little research on it. Turns out it take 2 ounces of antifreeze in an adult to be toxic. So, I guess in a survival situation rinsing out a tank and using it as a canteen would not be the worst thing you could do.

 

[JohnWayne360]

Consider Ray Mears, where everything goes perfectly all the time. He makes no attempt to demonstrate 'reality tv', yet his show works quite well as an educational piece and people don't seem to hate him or call him out all the time. I truly think it is the 'reality' style that gets the hackles up.

You said what I was just about to say.
Ray doesn't pretend, he demonstrates in an educational manner. I also like the real stories woven in the episodes that demonstrate how people survived using said skills, and the mistakes they made.
What I also like about Ray is his respect for nature. I dont think I've ever seen him kill an animal for the sake of demonstration and for our entertainment, save for a fish or crab, which is something these new shows seem to lack. I'm all for demosntarting how a trap or snare works, but to actually kill the animal because you are in a pretend survival situation? It could be avoided.
As you've said, its the reality portion of it that gets under people's skins. They seem to advocate unpreparedness in the bush, leading many to believe they can make it with a stick of gum and a paper clip.

I love these shows despite some very minor shortcommings, they inspired me to go out and explore, respect nature, and teach me how to keep my arse alive! Keep 'em coming I say.

 

[KuRUpTD]

What I also like about Ray is his respect for nature. I dont think I've ever seen him kill an animal for the sake of demonstration and for our entertainment, save for a fish or crab, which is something these new shows seem to lack. I'm all for demosntarting how a trap or snare works, but to actually kill the animal because you are in a pretend survival situation? It could be avoided.

I have no issue with them killing animals because whatever they do catch ends up being eaten. Although it's a "pretend" situation, with a film crew, they actually are out in the wilderness and need to sustain themselves. They also demonstrate how to skin and gut their kills which is a skill that one really needs to know about.

 

[jvb423]

xxxxx

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Well, because (this is my take, I may be wrong, it happens on rare occasions ):

Urine contains Uric acids, ammonia compounds and such, which are poisonous. Drinking urine can cause vomiting quickly, which leads to more immediate dehydration than maybe getting the trots a couple days later.

Also note that although the pools were stagnant in the desert, there didn't seem to be a lot of animal sign, so a lot of the bacteria that would cause problems that come from animal waste were less likely to be present than in the other episodes where Cody refused to drink untreated water.

 

[JohnWayne360]

Well, because (this is my take, I may be wrong, it happens on rare occasions ):

Urine contains Uric acids, ammonia compounds and such, which are poisonous. Drinking urine can cause vomiting quickly, which leads to more immediate dehydration than maybe getting the trots a couple days later.

Also note that although the pools were stagnant in the desert, there didn't seem to be a lot of animal sign, so a lot of the bacteria that would cause problems that come from animal waste were less likely to be present than in the other episodes where Cody refused to drink untreated water.

Good point CPL. As far as Bear drinking his own urine, I can't find a single survival book that advocates that (then again, I haven't read them all) and frankly, I'm surprised that being a former SAS soldier, he would still go ahead and do it. Lofty Wiseman strongly advices against it.