EyeDog
Semper Fi
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Loved both my knife and .45. Have authentic copies of both and an original 1911 from my grandfather.
Too many Crocodile Dundee impressions, "That's not a knife--this is a knife." [emoji56]
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A newbie with a few questions about knife combat use
- Thread starter 7thBlade
- Start date
Loved both my knife and .45. Have authentic copies of both and an original 1911 from my grandfather.
Too many Crocodile Dundee impressions, "That's not a knife--this is a knife." [emoji56]
Ankerson
Knife and Computer Geek
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2002
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- 21,094
I know what you mean. LOL
Personally I wouldn't want to get that close to someone that I would need a knife.
Other than maybe a bayonet.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2012
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- 1,238
Of the various fixed blade knives I've bought for the purpose of outdoor (survival?) use, self-defense never really factored into the decision. However, although I don't bring it along on camping and hiking excursions, I would be perfectly happy with my Cold Steel SRK to cover all the bases. For an even lighter and less expensive - but maybe better "chore" oriented - fixed blade, the Cold Steel Peace Maker II looks promising.
You might want to check out the Ontario Spec Plus series too.
You might want to check out the Ontario Spec Plus series too.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2015
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- 109
I'll be real with you, carrying a knife for self defense is a terrible idea, and downright stupid if you are untrained. A knife is not a deterrent, knives are terrible at subduing somebody (stopping the aggressor), require training, and have a very limited lethal range. You want an item for self defense? Carry pepper spray, 10x better than a knife and it is non-lethal. Lethal option? Get your CCW.
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- Jan 14, 2007
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+1 !!!
I understand all of this, but my concern are wild animals and not people. Last camping trip I slept in my tent along with my girlfriend, and there were some animals making a lot of noise outside. My girlfriend was freaking out, and I was too. I kept thinking what if something happened, and I couldn't protect myself or her from a wild animal? Suffice to say I didn't feel comfortable at all in that situation. Pepper spray won't do the job in the middle of the night against a wild animal, especially not when I have to target its eyes. A larger blade on the other hand, would be a better choice. Don't get me wrong, I don't NEED a knife to defend myself against people, I can do that with my bare hands. But I sure as hell don't plan on wrestling with wildlife in the middle of the night.
I am also new to camping by the way...so I don't know. Maybe this is a stupid concern and maybe I don't really need a knife like that, but I sure as hell know that I would feel a heck of a lot safer if I had one, and she would too. If you tell me I'm stupid, I'll accept the criticism, but last time camping was not pleasant at all. So basically, that's what I need the knife for. It's not to fight against people, but rather meant as a defensive means against an aggressive animal. And no, I don't want to hunt or kill wildlife, I'm not a hunter. The knife is basically meant for that + camp chores. I don't even plan on carrying it with me unless I go camping.
So yeah, maybe I'm just being stupid here, but pepper spray won't do, and a gun is not commonplace here. A baton is also not likely to stop a wild animal effectively.
I am also new to camping by the way...so I don't know. Maybe this is a stupid concern and maybe I don't really need a knife like that, but I sure as hell know that I would feel a heck of a lot safer if I had one, and she would too. If you tell me I'm stupid, I'll accept the criticism, but last time camping was not pleasant at all. So basically, that's what I need the knife for. It's not to fight against people, but rather meant as a defensive means against an aggressive animal. And no, I don't want to hunt or kill wildlife, I'm not a hunter. The knife is basically meant for that + camp chores. I don't even plan on carrying it with me unless I go camping.
So yeah, maybe I'm just being stupid here, but pepper spray won't do, and a gun is not commonplace here. A baton is also not likely to stop a wild animal effectively.
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- Aug 2, 2014
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- 369
If your concern is animals, then a bear bag would probably suffice.
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- Feb 2, 2011
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- 991
An effective CQ knife has a sharp edge and a point and a handle that is easy to grip, even when wet. Everything else is preference and/or marketing hype.
BK 7 would be a solid knife for camp use and would work for pretty much any sort of close quarter training. Kabar would as well. If you wanted something different, then Fallkniven makes some military survival knives that are nice, or you could get a Finnish Ranger Knife (Sissipuukko). Any of the medium ESEE knives will do you well for camping.
As far as animal defense goes, you will probably get more useful info out of hog hunters than you will out of any "tactical" discussion. Google some hog knives and you will quickly find pictures that show which knives work.
BK 7 would be a solid knife for camp use and would work for pretty much any sort of close quarter training. Kabar would as well. If you wanted something different, then Fallkniven makes some military survival knives that are nice, or you could get a Finnish Ranger Knife (Sissipuukko). Any of the medium ESEE knives will do you well for camping.
As far as animal defense goes, you will probably get more useful info out of hog hunters than you will out of any "tactical" discussion. Google some hog knives and you will quickly find pictures that show which knives work.
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- Aug 2, 2014
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- 369
Correct. Most animals want to stay the hell away from humans, so if they're in your campsite then something is usually wrong, unless you're in a jungle or something.
If that many animals are in your campsite, then you've either put your food somewhere they can smell/access it, or they're all rabid. Usually the former.
Go get a full-sized USMC Ka-Bar with a strait edge and buy a bear bag, see if conditions improve.
If a large animal were to get into your campsite at night, you wouldn't even need the knife. You'd just need two pots, which you would then slam together and the animal would go running.
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If you're worried about animals, get some bear spray. It's been proven to be very effective on creatures who may think of you as being lower on the food chain than they are. Taking on a bear or mountain lion with a knife instead of a canister of bear spray would be nuts.
Between drought, wildfires, and the ever decreasing wilderness resulting from the expansion of human habitation, predators such as mountain lions, bears, and coyote's are having a harder and harder time finding natural sources of food. This results in desperation on the part of such predators and an increase in both animal encounters with humans and animal attacks on humans.
If you are venturing into areas where such animals are present, I advise that you locate and seek advice from people who are truly knowledgeable about such matters, since your life, and the life of your girlfriend might very well depend on it.
Do not assume that the old saying "They're more afraid of you than you are of them" still applies. Because a starving mountain lion or bear is going to be motivated more by hunger than by fear. Ask Timothy Treadwell. Well, I guess you can't. Because Treadwell was eaten by a starving and desperate bear. And as the bear was eating Treadwell ALIVE, while he was screaming, his girlfriend was screaming and beating on the bear with a pot. And when the bear was done with Treadwell, it ate the girlfriend. So I wouldn't bet my life on banging a few pots together or just making noise to save you from a bear.
And while hanging your food up high in a tree is always a good idea, (as well as your garbage), don't assume that wild and hungry animals are only going to come around in the middle of the night while your food is hanging in a tree. Animals can visit at any time, day or night. And YOU might smell just as delicious to a hungry animal as any food you brought with you.
I've spent a fair amount of time in bear and mountain lion country. Again, I suggest that you get yourself some advice from people who are both highly experienced in the wild, and up to date on what is going on with the large predators (lack of food, desperation, lack of fear, etc).
A perfect example of how times have changed is- the national parks service no longer recommends "playing dead" when attacked by a bear. Because, contrary to the popular and outdated belief, time and tragedy have both proven that playing dead will very likely result in real death.
Find qualified people who can thoroughly educate you on matters of wilderness survival. Don't rely on an internet forum.
If you are venturing into areas where such animals are present, I advise that you locate and seek advice from people who are truly knowledgeable about such matters, since your life, and the life of your girlfriend might very well depend on it.
Do not assume that the old saying "They're more afraid of you than you are of them" still applies. Because a starving mountain lion or bear is going to be motivated more by hunger than by fear. Ask Timothy Treadwell. Well, I guess you can't. Because Treadwell was eaten by a starving and desperate bear. And as the bear was eating Treadwell ALIVE, while he was screaming, his girlfriend was screaming and beating on the bear with a pot. And when the bear was done with Treadwell, it ate the girlfriend. So I wouldn't bet my life on banging a few pots together or just making noise to save you from a bear.
And while hanging your food up high in a tree is always a good idea, (as well as your garbage), don't assume that wild and hungry animals are only going to come around in the middle of the night while your food is hanging in a tree. Animals can visit at any time, day or night. And YOU might smell just as delicious to a hungry animal as any food you brought with you.
I've spent a fair amount of time in bear and mountain lion country. Again, I suggest that you get yourself some advice from people who are both highly experienced in the wild, and up to date on what is going on with the large predators (lack of food, desperation, lack of fear, etc).
A perfect example of how times have changed is- the national parks service no longer recommends "playing dead" when attacked by a bear. Because, contrary to the popular and outdated belief, time and tragedy have both proven that playing dead will very likely result in real death.
Find qualified people who can thoroughly educate you on matters of wilderness survival. Don't rely on an internet forum.
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- Aug 27, 2012
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- 1,238
While there is such a thing as a false sense of security, it would be a shame if all that stood between you (and your girlfriend) and enjoying camping was the purchase price of a knife. If the realistic uses of a knife will be various campsite tasks, there are hundreds of options. However, finding one actually suited to defense against wild animals and camping chores will mean compromising on both counts. Honestly, I would suggest focusing on finding a camp knife priced appropriately for the amount of use you expect it to get, and then some sort of fixed blade "pig sticker" that is set aside strictly for defensive purposes. It need not be expensive, just be sharp and sturdy. Penetration is the name of the game if it comes to that, but don't overlook handle material either; blood will make a slick handle slicker. I've always been a bit of a fan of the CRKT Ultima myself, specifically the 7" version. Some of the Schrade fixed blades would be quite capable too, I'd think.
I tend to agree with you about any sort of spray, especially in a camping scenario. With the wind blowing the wrong way, or having to use it inside a tent, it's going to make a bad situation worse.
You could have saved everybody a lot of time by just saying that in the first place. Heck, because of you not getting to your question, I believe your thread had been moved to the wrong subforum.
Prac Trac is about SD against bad guys, not woodland creatures, it it not?
abbydaddy
Gold Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2014
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- 3,234
If you are in an area where there are dangerous animals (like bears), and a gun isn't an option, then pepper spray absolutely "will do" for most of your actual animal defense needs. It will do much better than a knife, especially against something like a bear. But it won't do inside a tent, and I think that is what you are really asking for.
So let me rephrase what I think the question is, and we'll see if I have it right: What is a good close quarters knife to have in the tent as a last-ditch/security-blanket defense option against animals?
Since the question is really more about creating a safe feeling, but also a knife that could be used to defend against a wild animal in an emergency, you are essentially asking for the best pig sticker. But it would also be probably a good idea to pick something that would be an all around useful camp knife. For myself, I've always taken my old K. Tragbar my grandpa gave me, it's a good hunting knife and it's long enough for me, and it has given me a sense of being prepared in my tent since I was 13.
The previously suggested BK7 is a good option. It is a solid all around kind of knife. For myself, if I were looking for a camp knife to double as tent protection, I might actually go with the BK5 (Becker Magnum). It's a solid camp knife. It would make a serviceable pig sticker. It has plenty of blade. But for me the biggest reason to choose the BK5 as opposed to other similar knives is that the blade shape and guard look like it would be easier to use for things like food prep in camp. It has been my experience that a big guard on a combat type knife is actually often kind of a pain on a camp knife. Since you aren't looking to go toe to toe with a professional knife fighter, I'd guess that the BK5 would handle your needs quite well for a reasonable price.
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- Oct 13, 2010
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- 640
This thread went from the incorrect belief that soldiers sometimes kill with knives, as if it were a simple, matter of fact, instead of a once in a generation aberration, to waxing poetic on human stop squirrel, hand to hand, mortal jungle combat.
Almost every animal would rather risk starvation when faced with the alternative of confronting a human. If an animal attacks you in the woods then either its children are nearby (bear, mountain lion) and you will definitely not survive this event without a powerful firearm, or the animal is literally crazed and already dying from the toxic rabies coursing through it's brain and nervous system, and will behave unpredictability to pain.
- Demon (perspective of a former Infantry squad leader and current LEO)
Almost every animal would rather risk starvation when faced with the alternative of confronting a human. If an animal attacks you in the woods then either its children are nearby (bear, mountain lion) and you will definitely not survive this event without a powerful firearm, or the animal is literally crazed and already dying from the toxic rabies coursing through it's brain and nervous system, and will behave unpredictability to pain.
- Demon (perspective of a former Infantry squad leader and current LEO)
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2014
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- 1,097
Holy shit, it was a perfectly legitimate question. In the wilderness, a fair distance from help, having a knife that you can rely on for simple tasks, as well as defending yourself from man or beast, is a fine idea. Pepper spray? Definitely. A gun? Sure, if you live in a gun-friendly nation or state. But a knife is also good to have as a last resort in a desperate situation.
People have been killing animals and killing each other with blades for tens of thousands of years, and it doesn't take a course in martial bladecraft to swing a BK9 or use the pointy end of a dagger. Prisoners have shown that a plastic shank and a sewing-machine style attack can be very deadly, and broken beer bottles have yielded many tragic results.
Knives will always be the most reliable last ditch, last resort option; when you're out of ammo, a blade might save your life. I find it surprising how many people on bladeforums seem to think knives are either completely useless as weapons, or only effective after intensive training. A knife won't save you from someone with a gun and bad intentions. A BK-7 probably won't be enough to stop a bear attack... but your chances are better with it than without.
A good knife is probably more valuable for providing a little peace of mind. As long as you're realistic about what a blade can and can't do, it's a great idea. I haven't owned a BK-7, but I can say that the BK-9 and BK-4 are excellent choices, and very reasonably priced -- both are about 14.5" long OAL, with 9-inch blades, but the latter is a modified Kukri-style design; they also come incredibly sharp out-of-the-box, which is always nice.
People have been killing animals and killing each other with blades for tens of thousands of years, and it doesn't take a course in martial bladecraft to swing a BK9 or use the pointy end of a dagger. Prisoners have shown that a plastic shank and a sewing-machine style attack can be very deadly, and broken beer bottles have yielded many tragic results.
Knives will always be the most reliable last ditch, last resort option; when you're out of ammo, a blade might save your life. I find it surprising how many people on bladeforums seem to think knives are either completely useless as weapons, or only effective after intensive training. A knife won't save you from someone with a gun and bad intentions. A BK-7 probably won't be enough to stop a bear attack... but your chances are better with it than without.
A good knife is probably more valuable for providing a little peace of mind. As long as you're realistic about what a blade can and can't do, it's a great idea. I haven't owned a BK-7, but I can say that the BK-9 and BK-4 are excellent choices, and very reasonably priced -- both are about 14.5" long OAL, with 9-inch blades, but the latter is a modified Kukri-style design; they also come incredibly sharp out-of-the-box, which is always nice.
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Agree with this^^^^^
If you don't live in a gun friendly place, or for some reason can't have a firearm, a nice pointy pig sticker can be a good thing. The top one here is an Ontario 12 inch machete re-ground into a southwestern bowie for a cross country motorcycle trip. I was going from the east coast to the west coast and back on a Harley sportster, and would be camping out in some empty places. No place on the bike to secure a firearm while in places like the John Browning museum, or the mountain man museum, or Bent's Old Fort. So I made this up for a cheap disposable no crying over tool for camping out west with no gun on hand. Just in case some mountain lion wanted to see if humans tasted like chicken. Didn't need it, but it was nice to have in the tent at night in some places. The real camp chore were done with the folder in my pocket.
