A newbie with a few questions about knife combat use

[GermanyChris]

I myself am pretty sure that soldiers use knives in combat every now and then, but I think what most people are saying is that such situations don't arise often enough to consider a knife a primary fighting tool but rather a multitool, i.e. you're going to use it more for other tasks than you would for fighting. As for whether knives have been used in combat situations or not, yes, of course they have. As a bloody beginner though, I won't argue with someone who has experience.

If you were to ask me for my opinion on the subject, I think knives are perfectly viable fighting tools in some situations (I was never a soldier, but I'm thinking if I had to make a silent kill in the middle of the night, a good knife would be a perfect tool, but I don't want to sound like I play too many video games here - I actually never played shooter games and the like). But again, I'm a beginner, what do I know? xD

Eyedog, you sound like you've been there and you've had formal training with a blade, so I'll take your word for it man. Thanks for the input.

Sikael: Thanks for the input

Yup I used them to; dig some holes, pry stuff, cut open sand bags, open MRE's and on and on.

 

[Noswad0208]

I believe the Ka-Bar USMC is the classic WWII combat knife that has been a favorite for many, and the BK-7 is a more recent design by Ethan Becker, released under the Becker/Ka-Bar joint-label...

This is correct.

This thread went from the incorrect belief that soldiers sometimes kill with knives,

Erm, no one mentioned in this thread counts?

 

[7thBlade]

Yup I used them to; dig some holes, pry stuff, cut open sand bags, open MRE's and on and on.

Lol xD To be fair though, if there's soldiers on this forums who HAVE used blades for self defense or even killing, it's not like they're gonna be talking about it openly. Made me lagh though

You could have saved everybody a lot of time by just saying that in the first place. Heck, because of you not getting to your question, I believe your thread had been moved to the wrong subforum.

Prac Trac is about SD against bad guys, not woodland creatures, it it not?

Yeah, I agree. The reason I didn't say right away what I needed the knife for was because I thought I'd sound like I want to wrestle with wild beats. I know this is a serious forum so I didn't want people to laugh and think I saw too many tarzan movies or whatnot. I find the idea of fighting wild animals with a knife ridiculous quite frankly, but last time, while camping, it dawned on me that I could use one in an emergency.


Inazone: Thanks a lot for the advice. I googled the CRKT Ultima, looks like a great knife if I ever needed a "pig sticker", as some here called it. Also, pepper spray is quite fine for an option, but if an animal were to rampage through my tent, then the tent fabric could easily protect its eyes, making the spray useless, especially in the middle of the night where targeting its eyes would be a pain. I'd feel safer with a knife, quite frankly. Not the option I'm married to, but sprays don't sound very promising to be honest, and I want something bigger and pointy to put between me and whatever I have to defend myself against. I've never killed anyone or anything, and I don't want to start, but I'm not up for being killed myself either A bear bag + a good knife sounds like a good combo. Hopefully I won't need the knife for anything but camp chores.

Sikael: Thanks for the advice I also agree it might be a good idea to have 2 knives, one for camp chores, the other for defense purposes, like some have stated. And pray I won't need it. I guess it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Killgar: That's very good advice, thanks. I'll be doing that, good point

Thanks for the discussion so far guys, it's good to hear so many opinions on the subject, it's opening my eyes bit by bit to be honest. Good stuff.

 

[marcinek]

The reason I didn't say right away what I needed the knife for was because I thought I'd sound like I want to wrestle with wild beats. I know this is a serious forum so I didn't want people to laugh and think I saw too many tarzan movies or whatnot. I find the idea of fighting wild animals with a knife ridiculous quite frankly, but last time, while camping, it dawned on me that I could use one in an emergency.

Actually, I believe your question is right in the Wilderness & Survival Skills wheelhouse! You could report yourself to the mods (using the triangle with the ! on the lower left of any of your posts) and ask to be moved there.

Prac Tac is more "Would krav maga or eskrima be a better method for fighting off a bear in the woods?" kinda theme.

 

[SeaxyBeast]

Does the bear have a knife?

 

[7thBlade]

Actually, I believe your question is right in the Wilderness & Survival Skills wheelhouse! You could report yourself to the mods (using the triangle with the ! on the lower left of any of your posts) and ask to be moved there.

Prac Tac is more "Would krav maga or eskrima be a better method for fighting off a bear in the woods?" kinda theme.

I'll do that thanks xD LOL

Does the bear have a knife?

He's got 10

 

[Angus McGunnigle]

Buy a cold steel bushman, and larger SAK with a saw blade. Buy a 12 dollar mora also.

Go out and use them. Wipe down and sharpen them. Use them more.

 

[sideways]

Timothy Treadwell LIVED in the heart of grizzly country for 13 summers flaunting all the basic safety rules. He left food around the camp, didn't carry bear spray, refused to electrify his camp perimeter or move his campsite to avoid smell build up. He even went so far as to interact with wild bear cubs while he "studied" them. On that last fateful summer he stayed longer than usual (or safe) and set up camp next to a salmon fishing spot frequented by the bears. Hardly what you would call low risk behavior... I'd call it suicidal. In his madness he wanted to be one with the bears and he succeeded.

His death was the first bear fatality in the 85 years Katmai national park existed. If anything I'm surprised he lasted that long and in my view it shows just how tolerant the bears were. I would not recommend anyone emulate his behavior or draw conclusions from it.

In a close quarters fight with a bear slashing would be mostly useless. Bears have thick hides and are used to getting cuts during their mating and territorial scuffles. Stabbing is the only thing with any kind of chance of incapacitating a bear. A spear would be the minimum edged weapon I'd bring to a bear fight. A bunch of spears, with a prepared field of traps / spiked pits is probably how bears were hunted in ancient times.

The question is silly though. You do not fight a bear with a knife. A few people have survived a bear attack by stabbing one in the neck. Survival meant getting in a lucky shot while being eaten and sustaining life altering injuries in the process. Avoidance is the way to go. Do not go near a wild bear and do not give them any reason to come near your camp. If confronted then BEAR SPRAY is the way to go. Back it up with shotgun slugs or a magnum rifle suitable for dangerous game. If these items are totally off the table, perhaps you would do better to camp elsewhere.

 

[EyeDog]

sideways NAILED it.

 

[raistlin65]

You do not fight a bear with a knife.

+1

One would think this would be self evident without all the other explanation you had to provide

 

[Shotgun]

If somehow I'm the unlucky bastard who, against all odds, actually did get attacked by a bear...I'm good with dying that way. Much better dying in a few minutes hopped up on adrenaline than dying over several months/years from prostate cancer. IMO, practice avoidance techniques, be aware of your surroundings, and don't worry about it. If you're the type that just HAS to worry about something, worry about ticks and mosquitoes. Seriously.

 

[killgar]

Timothy Treadwell LIVED in the heart of grizzly country for 13 summers flaunting all the basic safety rules. He left food around the camp, didn't carry bear spray, refused to electrify his camp perimeter or move his campsite to avoid smell build up. He even went so far as to interact with wild bear cubs while he "studied" them. On that last fateful summer he stayed longer than usual (or safe) and set up camp next to a salmon fishing spot frequented by the bears. Hardly what you would call low risk behavior... I'd call it suicidal. In his madness he wanted to be one with the bears and he succeeded.

His death was the first bear fatality in the 85 years Katmai national park existed. If anything I'm surprised he lasted that long and in my view it shows just how tolerant the bears were. I would not recommend anyone emulate his behavior or draw conclusions from it.

While I certainly agree that no one should emulate Treadwell's behavior, I think there are some very important lessons to be learned from his fate.

Like for example, the bear didn't kill Treadwell and his girlfriend because they suddenly surprised the bear, or because he ventured too close to the bear, or because the bear saw them as a threat to it's cubs. The bear attacked them because it was starving and desperate and chose to attack two human beings and EAT them. I doubt that the bear mistook them for giant salmon. People should not assume that bears have no interest in them, and that bears would always prefer to avoid people. People should know that even if they take every precaution with their food, and make every effort to avoid an encounter, that a bear might see THEM as a source of food. Underestimating how far a hungry/starving apex predator will go for a meal is a very dangerous mistake to make.

Another lesson is, don't assume that it will be easy to scare off or drive away a bear. If people enter bear country with the belief that all they have to do when they see a bear is make a lot of noise and the bear will run away, they could be in for a nasty surprise when it doesn't.

The death of Treadwell and his girlfriend demonstrate many mistakes that people can make in bear country that can get them killed. Their deaths also demonstrate that bear behavior is not always as predictable as some people might think.

I believe that there are valuable lessons to be learned from every violent encounter between animals and humans. I believe that studying past animal attacks is essential for preventing future tragedy, and that the details of such encounters should never be dismissed.

 

[abbydaddy]

The bear's whole goal in life is to get fat enough to go back to bed. That is why they like salmon, and berries, and grubs, they don't have to run after those things and those things won't injure the bear. If the bear gets hurt, it's hard to get fat, ditto with tons of running. Humans are big animals, so most of the time bears just steer clear.

But sometimes the bear is hungry. And the bear needs a big calorie package. And when they get hungry enough, people look pretty tasty.

Sometimes it's just a misunderstanding, like when my friend's dad got his face taken off recently. Sometimes the bear is just attracted by camp smells, like the last time my dad had to kill a bear that decided to open up his cabin during the night (we've had cabins opened up by grizzlies in the past, but that was the only time a person was inside). And sometimes the bear is hungry, which was the case the first time my dad had to kill a bear (it was actually going after his coworker, not my dad).

For my part, I've had no trouble with bears, but I don't have any bear whisperer magic to keep them away. The close encounters I've had have either involved the bear running away or me being in a house/car.

I mostly just want to stress that there are a lot of reasons that a bear encounter can get violent, and by no means do all of them involve the bear being in a killing mood. My friend's dad survived, albeit without a jaw, because the bear was just spooked.

 

[B34NS]

Welcome!!! You headed off to combat soon? [emoji10] Look up James Williams on the web for his CRKT knives and videos.

IMO a knife is a poor and last ditch defense for civilians. Collect them, cut veggies and wood, but don't use them in a fight.

Mike

Single best advice I've seen on here yet. I trained with some of them and can't say enough about James.

In terms of animals, use your head. That's why we evolved it, your brain potential is greater than that of any animals. Use it or lose it.

If bears are your issue, then it's because your impromperly storing your food. There is the off chance of wrong time wrong place. That's why I carry a road flare. Worked every time, with black bears. In brown bear country, same goes for food storage, and a shotgun or side arm is about it. There are excpetions to this rule, but I'd hesitate to to say that because a few people killed a bear with a knife that it is by any means "viable" for general wilderness travel knowledge.

 

[rwc53]

"In a knife fight, everyone gets cut...the one who gets cut the least, wins!": sage advice from a military instructor "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away." Getting into a knife fight with an opponent who outweighs you by several hundred pounds, and has more "knives" (claws) than you is not advisable. Go with a good slug gun or some bear spray. As for CQB with a human opponent, the quote I wrote at the beginning applies. Only you can determine if you are willing/able to engage/prevail in a knife encounter. It's not fun, and it's not like it is in the movies. I am not meaning to be facetious here, just want to give some good advice.

Just my $0.02 worth...for whatever that's worth!

Regards,
Ron (22 years in the military...18 years as a "contractor" in various and sundry parts of the globe)

 

[DarkPatriot]

I like my esee cm6 as my large camp knife and this would probably be my choice of knife if I found myself needing to defend myself from a wild animal with a knife. Would it do any good? I have no clue and hope I never find out...

 

[Sikael]

Just to go back to 'Grizzly Man' a second, and the interesting points brought up in previous posts -- Treadwell returned year after year, and was incredibly naïve about the nature of the animals he loved. He made the mistake of looking into the eyes of a wild animal and seeing his own reflection, thinking of them as friends, when all they felt for him was a mild curiosity and a slight wariness. Every year, his visits coincided with the return of the Salmon, a time when food is plentiful. He was killed the first time he decided to stay later, skipping his scheduled return flight and dooming himself and his girlfriend in the process. When the food ran out, an older bear who had apparently not fared well started following them, and eventually attacked and killed them both in their camp. What I found sickening was how long the attack went on, as Treadwell was slowly eaten alive. The audio recording of the attack revealed that Treadwell's girlfriend spent a few minutes desperately trying to drive the bear off, instead of trying to save herself. In the Herzog documentary they decline to play the audio, due to its obviously disturbing nature. If I could choose or refuse the way I die, being eaten alive by a bear would be one of those horrifying options I'd like to avoid. Also, if things did get dire, I'd say swinging a razor-sharp BK-9, Junglas, or Bark River Bravo 3 -- directly onto the snout or eyes -- could cause enough damage to drive it off... or send it into a more frenzied attack. If it's the latter, dying quick isn't the worst of all possible fates. (Obviously, this isn't a recommended tactic, it's a last chance scenario. I'd choose attacking the face or neck with a large knife over running; turning your back often triggers predatory instincts, and bears are far faster than humans.)

 

[EChoil]

OP, just get the BK-7. It will do what you want.

If you're that anxious about animals and don't want to carry a gun into the wild, just get a small pack of firecrackers in July and take a few with you on camping trips. Set off one or two on those scary nights and you'll be safe from the boogie bears.

You're taking something into your tent in bear country you shouldn't be if they are that close all night. Toothpaste? Chewing gum or tic tacs? The girlfriend's grape Chapstick? Certain things should be stored overnight with the food.

 

[neeman]

Hey everyone! I'm new here, and want to inform myself a bit about knives and the like. I've never owned a knife aside from the ones in my kitchen, so I got a few questions related to combat and self defense with knives. I've informed myself a bit about knives, seen and read some reviews, and I guess I got the gist of some things, but I still need opinions on some things from people with experience.

My first question would be, which characteristics must a knife possess to be effective at close combat and for self defense purposes?

Second question relates to military use of knives in regards to the weight of the knife. I know soldiers carry a lot of gear with them and thus want lighter blades because they are more practical. My question here is, is the light weight the only reason soldiers carry lighter knives, or does the lighter weight and shorter blade of a knife give an advantage in close quarters fighting due to speed and practicality?

My third question is, is there a knife that can be used well in close quarters combat and also do survival tasks well, such as batoning, carving up wood and other camp tasks?

Also to add, I stumbled on many reviews that reviewed the Becker BK7 very favorably in terms of price, and its ability to do survival/camp tasks effectively, and apparently can be used for combat as well, self defense, CQC, whatever you call it. Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions here, but I'm just curios. I've seen other knives as well, but the BK 7 barely has a bad review and gets a lot of attention, can last a lifetime apparently, resistant to harsh weather conditions etc. I know it's not he only knife out there, but these knives seem to get a lot of attention, so I'm curious. I also have no idea how many other good knives are out there at all since I've never been involved in these things up until now. I'd like to hear what people with experience have to say to the above.

Thanks in advance for any help you might offer to a newbie!

Dear Mr newbie,
"I've never owned a knife aside from the ones in my kitchen"
Get a 4' bladed knife that is small enough for you to handle like a Becker BK16, a 7" blade is too long for a newbie
And a Jacknife said get a Victorinex SAK Farmer penknife and learn how to use it, so it foes not fold on your fingers

Knife fighting
Do you have a death wish?
Forget about it
or
Go practice a recognized martial art for a couple of years at four times a week then understand your death wish

 

[AmosPaul]

Do grizzly bears frequent your camping area? If not then ticks (Lyme disease) may be the most dangerous animal you will face. You need a good tick knife. I use a permethrin knife.