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I think I remember those knives. Did you post them in the survival forum? I use to hang there a lot back then.
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A Note On Prices
- Thread starter Fiddleback
- Start date
Gossman Knives
Edged Toolmaker
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2004
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- 9,402
What you have been doing seems to working Andy so I wouldn't sweat it. You need to charge according to the current market and what you need to run your business. I've watched you grow into a well respected knifemaker.
Scott
Scott
Andy,
Please know that you are an inspiration for many of us, not only in the knife trade. You turned a tough labor situation into a success story, and you have shown that it is possible to work hard and accomplish something in life that you really believe in. You are also incredibly generous with your time, care about your products and customers, you even take time to train the next generation, and have always made sure that some of your knives remain affordable. We need more of you as examples to follow, not less! Keep doing your trade, make sure you remain viable, and know that your support network will only grow with time.
Please know that you are an inspiration for many of us, not only in the knife trade. You turned a tough labor situation into a success story, and you have shown that it is possible to work hard and accomplish something in life that you really believe in. You are also incredibly generous with your time, care about your products and customers, you even take time to train the next generation, and have always made sure that some of your knives remain affordable. We need more of you as examples to follow, not less! Keep doing your trade, make sure you remain viable, and know that your support network will only grow with time.
I guess there is something I just dont get....It seems to me the free market would take care of these underpriced 60 buck quality knives.... If they were worth 100, they would rise to that level.
And if they sell for 100, then the guy is ok???? But at 60 hes a "I dont give a shit" hobbyist who is the downfall of a Hobbydriven market?
I dont agree with anyone expecting a maker to lower prices....if you dont want to pay, look elsewhere. I just think the retired guy who has put his 40 years of work in...makes a few good knives, sells to buy some more belts,steel and wood is getting a bad rap here. He is good or even essential for the custom knife market (and knife supply houses) to thrive.
But hey, what do I know....I still put in my 40 a week and stay out of trouble.
James
And if they sell for 100, then the guy is ok???? But at 60 hes a "I dont give a shit" hobbyist who is the downfall of a Hobbydriven market?
I dont agree with anyone expecting a maker to lower prices....if you dont want to pay, look elsewhere. I just think the retired guy who has put his 40 years of work in...makes a few good knives, sells to buy some more belts,steel and wood is getting a bad rap here. He is good or even essential for the custom knife market (and knife supply houses) to thrive.
But hey, what do I know....I still put in my 40 a week and stay out of trouble.
James
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I'm actually new to this debate, however
since my every day carry is a ZT 0300 and I paid full book for it, I fail to see
why anybody would bitch over a custom knife for less than a catalog knife like the zero tolerance knives.
I have spent upwards of 300 for catalog knives and have folks who think I am crazy, they swear by their
10 dollar flea market pakistani steel blades. I watch them break them daily at my job. I work outdoors
and my blade makes a difference daily in my life. So, I carry a decent knife I know I can trust.
I checked your web site and I see lots of examples, but only machetes for sell currently and at $100 bucks,
you are giving them away as I pay 50 for one at ace hardware and its shit steel that may last a summer, maybe.
I have a local guy here that is pushing "custom" knives and his cheapest is 225 with a leather sheath, and they are fixed blade nothing fancy.
Nice blades but I don't care for the polished chrome look of them, to each their own I suppose.
If you happen to get some blades for sale in the next 30 days, drop me an email I'm always looking for a good blade now an then.
since my every day carry is a ZT 0300 and I paid full book for it, I fail to see
why anybody would bitch over a custom knife for less than a catalog knife like the zero tolerance knives.
I have spent upwards of 300 for catalog knives and have folks who think I am crazy, they swear by their
10 dollar flea market pakistani steel blades. I watch them break them daily at my job. I work outdoors
and my blade makes a difference daily in my life. So, I carry a decent knife I know I can trust.
I checked your web site and I see lots of examples, but only machetes for sell currently and at $100 bucks,
you are giving them away as I pay 50 for one at ace hardware and its shit steel that may last a summer, maybe.
I have a local guy here that is pushing "custom" knives and his cheapest is 225 with a leather sheath, and they are fixed blade nothing fancy.
Nice blades but I don't care for the polished chrome look of them, to each their own I suppose.
If you happen to get some blades for sale in the next 30 days, drop me an email I'm always looking for a good blade now an then.
Check out Fiddleback Friday, :thumbup:
:thumbup: ...here every Friday. 
Big Mike
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2012
- Messages
- 1,949
I would truly love to own one of your Hunter models but it just isn't in my price range for a knife at this point in my life. However I would never ask a maker to reduce there cost simply because what a maker charges is more than I can afford.
I really don't think people understand the amount of work that goes into making a custom knife, I am lucky enough to live in Ohio which there must be something in the water up here tons of great knife makers, but I have seen a custom forged knife made from start to finish at a knife show and it was a very labor intensive task. That doesn't include the cost of handle materials which some of the woods you use are 50 bucks or so just for the material and that doesn't include g10 for liners and such.
Just keep doing what your doing Andy because your damn good at it.
I really don't think people understand the amount of work that goes into making a custom knife, I am lucky enough to live in Ohio which there must be something in the water up here tons of great knife makers, but I have seen a custom forged knife made from start to finish at a knife show and it was a very labor intensive task. That doesn't include the cost of handle materials which some of the woods you use are 50 bucks or so just for the material and that doesn't include g10 for liners and such.
Just keep doing what your doing Andy because your damn good at it.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2010
- Messages
- 1,165
Andy, may I first say that I love your work.
But as a hobby knifemaker myself (even if UK based), I don't see that I'm somehow undercutting what you do, anymore than big production factories undercut what you do.
You have a handmade/custom knife range. Of course that is worth a premium compared to something that comes off a production line. Except it's the production line knives that give "customers" the expectation of something for very little. It's the Mora's and the Bokers and the Enlans that set the benchmark in "bang for your bucks". Those customers who compare production prices with handmade prices aren't actually particularly in the market for a handmade knife. True I don't have the overheads you do, nor am I looking to feed my family off what I make on knives (otherwise I'd be charging a similar price to you). On the other hand, I don't have a "name", there's no real guarantee (apart from my "word") on the quality of what I do and people who'd be buying my product are taking a gamble that eventually my "name " willl be worth enough to command similar prices to a professional custom /handmade knife maker. Your knives aren't just custom/handmade knives, they are Fiddleback Forge Handmade/custom knives and that is worth a premium. There's a TV ad over here that refers to people selling "other" brands of car and saying such and such a feature is "just like a VW Golf", whether it's BHP, Road holding, Build quality or even the sound of the dooor shutting. The punchline is "Why drive something like a Golf, when you can drive a Golf?". You have a brand, readily identifiable and a reputation for quality. Don't cut your prices or think you're losing customers because you're too expensive. You're not. If anything you're too cheap! You've already got your "best price", you already sell at that. people are "funny" about stuff. One of the guys on another forum was trying to get rid of a fridge. Less than a year old, the only reason to get rid was because they'd refitted the kitchen with new decor based on silver colours for the appliances rather than white. The fridge was too good to just dump, so he left it outside with a sign "Perfect working order, free to a good home help yourself". 3 weeks later it's still outside on the lawn. He changed the sign to "For sale £25" and it was stolen within half an hour. Many of the "professional" knifemakers in the UK have found that when they put their prices up, demand increases. Look at the Alan Wood Woodlore Knife (OK, the Ray Mears Branding has had a lot to do with it as well) but when he found himself with 2 year back orders, he put his prices up to discourage buyers. It did nothing of the sort, in fact he jumped to a 5 year waiting list because of the increased custom.
Sell your knives and feed your family and don't be afraid to put your prices up to retain your (paltry) profit margins, you already know yourself, the customers are getting the best deal they possibly can, don't be stealing the food from your kids to maintain an impossible price. No one will thank you for it. Particularly not customers with no idea of what goes into the knife in the first place.
PS: Don't take my advice until I've managed to buy something from you
But as a hobby knifemaker myself (even if UK based), I don't see that I'm somehow undercutting what you do, anymore than big production factories undercut what you do.
You have a handmade/custom knife range. Of course that is worth a premium compared to something that comes off a production line. Except it's the production line knives that give "customers" the expectation of something for very little. It's the Mora's and the Bokers and the Enlans that set the benchmark in "bang for your bucks". Those customers who compare production prices with handmade prices aren't actually particularly in the market for a handmade knife. True I don't have the overheads you do, nor am I looking to feed my family off what I make on knives (otherwise I'd be charging a similar price to you). On the other hand, I don't have a "name", there's no real guarantee (apart from my "word") on the quality of what I do and people who'd be buying my product are taking a gamble that eventually my "name " willl be worth enough to command similar prices to a professional custom /handmade knife maker. Your knives aren't just custom/handmade knives, they are Fiddleback Forge Handmade/custom knives and that is worth a premium. There's a TV ad over here that refers to people selling "other" brands of car and saying such and such a feature is "just like a VW Golf", whether it's BHP, Road holding, Build quality or even the sound of the dooor shutting. The punchline is "Why drive something like a Golf, when you can drive a Golf?". You have a brand, readily identifiable and a reputation for quality. Don't cut your prices or think you're losing customers because you're too expensive. You're not. If anything you're too cheap! You've already got your "best price", you already sell at that. people are "funny" about stuff. One of the guys on another forum was trying to get rid of a fridge. Less than a year old, the only reason to get rid was because they'd refitted the kitchen with new decor based on silver colours for the appliances rather than white. The fridge was too good to just dump, so he left it outside with a sign "Perfect working order, free to a good home help yourself". 3 weeks later it's still outside on the lawn. He changed the sign to "For sale £25" and it was stolen within half an hour. Many of the "professional" knifemakers in the UK have found that when they put their prices up, demand increases. Look at the Alan Wood Woodlore Knife (OK, the Ray Mears Branding has had a lot to do with it as well) but when he found himself with 2 year back orders, he put his prices up to discourage buyers. It did nothing of the sort, in fact he jumped to a 5 year waiting list because of the increased custom.
Sell your knives and feed your family and don't be afraid to put your prices up to retain your (paltry) profit margins, you already know yourself, the customers are getting the best deal they possibly can, don't be stealing the food from your kids to maintain an impossible price. No one will thank you for it. Particularly not customers with no idea of what goes into the knife in the first place.
PS: Don't take my advice until I've managed to buy something from you
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- Joined
- Dec 1, 2007
- Messages
- 3,798
I had a very long conversation with Bob Terzuola last year at his house/shop about knifemaking as a profession, including his general pricing strategy. How he positions himself is very interesting and his perception is that no one really NEEDS custom knives, the stuff at the store works fine for a huge percentage of the population. Knowing this, he put an emphasis on people who love high-end cutting tools and are willing to pay for it without dickering with him over the price.
Refusing to cut prices, having a pricing strategy that is predictable and anchored on value (his time and reputation) plus materials, and learning efficiencies that accelerate production time without compromising quality are all key tenets he was very emphatic about. I felt that his model pretty much has to work, since he's done no other type of professional work for decades, has put his kids through school, and has a nice car and house.
My point is I think knifemakers' prices are what they are. I have to assume that every knifemaker I buy from knows his or her situation and what he or she is trying to achieve. If I buy a knife for $100 and it's not total crap, I can pretty much assume that the return on investment is experience and reputation-building and not the money itself. And while I may dearly love to pay $100 for a Roy or a Terzuola I know I'm in no position to tell either of them what I think of the price. Maybe, just maybe, if I feel like a knife costs too much, I need to admit that I'm probably not the guy they are marketing to and I need to sit that one out.
Refusing to cut prices, having a pricing strategy that is predictable and anchored on value (his time and reputation) plus materials, and learning efficiencies that accelerate production time without compromising quality are all key tenets he was very emphatic about. I felt that his model pretty much has to work, since he's done no other type of professional work for decades, has put his kids through school, and has a nice car and house.
My point is I think knifemakers' prices are what they are. I have to assume that every knifemaker I buy from knows his or her situation and what he or she is trying to achieve. If I buy a knife for $100 and it's not total crap, I can pretty much assume that the return on investment is experience and reputation-building and not the money itself. And while I may dearly love to pay $100 for a Roy or a Terzuola I know I'm in no position to tell either of them what I think of the price. Maybe, just maybe, if I feel like a knife costs too much, I need to admit that I'm probably not the guy they are marketing to and I need to sit that one out.
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Man I love those old Fiddlebacks. Impatient grind or not, would love to see a throwback osage Kephart like that one! That is a really great piece of osage on that one. Don't get me wrong, no flies on the current knives but there is something a little rustic and great about some of those early metal pin/wood scale ones.....
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- 19,797
That Osage was from an old fence post. It was gorgeous. I still have one piece.
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- 1,783
Hi Andy
Your prices are at the high end of user knives.. That is a fact. You should be proud to be where you are at. People are willing to pay for you blades. You always will have the people who lick to bicker on price. It's in there make up. Bottom line in the end the ones who bicker will pay the price. I say this as a small business owner . I see it over and over.
I have one of your bushcrafters from when you just opened up your books a few years ago. Fit and finish is excellent. Now I am also a knife maker. I will call myself a part time one because I have sold almost every knife I have made. I have sold knives in $40 dollar range to the $150 dollar range. The knives I sold at first were just to cover costs but as my work improved I was slowly able to move up from there. It is very expensive to make knives. Even crappy ones. My work is changing by the batch and I am finally able to turn a small buck. Like a real good part time job. The $40 dollar knife buyer and even the $100 dollar knife buyer does not affect your market. These people will never buy a knife in the upper tier . They really are not the ones making it hard on you.
AG was right. Keep your prices the way they are. You will spoil your brand that you have devoted a lot of time making. For the lower tiered crowd you may consider offering a blade with just a basic knife . Micarta slabs and basic pin set up. That might be a blessing for them and increase their desire for your higher end line. I not trying to tell you how to do it because you already know. I have watched you improve. You should be proud your work has inspired me along with a lot of other fine makers on this forum and others.
Take care and God Bless
Your prices are at the high end of user knives.. That is a fact. You should be proud to be where you are at. People are willing to pay for you blades. You always will have the people who lick to bicker on price. It's in there make up. Bottom line in the end the ones who bicker will pay the price. I say this as a small business owner . I see it over and over.
I have one of your bushcrafters from when you just opened up your books a few years ago. Fit and finish is excellent. Now I am also a knife maker. I will call myself a part time one because I have sold almost every knife I have made. I have sold knives in $40 dollar range to the $150 dollar range. The knives I sold at first were just to cover costs but as my work improved I was slowly able to move up from there. It is very expensive to make knives. Even crappy ones. My work is changing by the batch and I am finally able to turn a small buck. Like a real good part time job. The $40 dollar knife buyer and even the $100 dollar knife buyer does not affect your market. These people will never buy a knife in the upper tier . They really are not the ones making it hard on you.
AG was right. Keep your prices the way they are. You will spoil your brand that you have devoted a lot of time making. For the lower tiered crowd you may consider offering a blade with just a basic knife . Micarta slabs and basic pin set up. That might be a blessing for them and increase their desire for your higher end line. I not trying to tell you how to do it because you already know. I have watched you improve. You should be proud your work has inspired me along with a lot of other fine makers on this forum and others.
Take care and God Bless
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- Oct 19, 2005
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I am very proud of this. I love teaching it in person, but I have also helped a lot of guys along through the net and I'm proud of that too. Dan Koster and Scott Gossman and Tom Krein and some others helped me along too, and I hope they are proud to have influenced me. Matt Bailey had a huge influence on my handles. Feel free to contact me anytime with questions.
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Sure did. I posted all of them there till they ran me off. LOL. I miss hanging out there, I just don't have time for much but this place anymore.
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- Feb 18, 2013
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- 1
Andy,
I have purchased a half dozen of your knives and have no problem with the cost. In fact, the cost
is a real deal because of the design,workmanship and materials. You are making knives that the next
generation will collect. Only one request, could you start a series of knives called "The over the hill
gang"......thanks for making knives...gary
I have purchased a half dozen of your knives and have no problem with the cost. In fact, the cost
is a real deal because of the design,workmanship and materials. You are making knives that the next
generation will collect. Only one request, could you start a series of knives called "The over the hill
gang"......thanks for making knives...gary
Your prices are very good,specially for a handcrafted knife.I understand that you dont like having people asking you to lower you prices after all the hard work you put.Some of the replies here are messed up though.We have a capitalist economy,a free market.We have the right to ask for a better price,or ask for better pay if the company we work for is having their best profits ever.A free market works both ways,it's not that the people are feeling entitled.
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- Mar 1, 2013
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- 676
Andy,
Thanks for championing this cause. I have bought from you in the past and i fully agree that your prices are justified. Your quality is top notch and from what I see on the board you take customer satisfaction very serious. I also make knives and refuse to lowball my prices. I find it hard to sell knives on this forum when i post knives at what I feel is reasonable for my skillset only to find a similar knife for sale at half my price. I have more success selling knives from my facebook page. This is a tough business to break in to especially when some of the makers are practically giving their stuff away. I lost my paying job last year due to a merger and thought that I would give this a shot. Bad decision! Don't get me wrong, I love to make knives and didnt enter into this full time thinking that I would get rich. I just didnt fully appreciate the dynamics at play. I guess I'll keep on keepin on and who knows maybe things will improve. Keep up the excellent work!
Thanks for championing this cause. I have bought from you in the past and i fully agree that your prices are justified. Your quality is top notch and from what I see on the board you take customer satisfaction very serious. I also make knives and refuse to lowball my prices. I find it hard to sell knives on this forum when i post knives at what I feel is reasonable for my skillset only to find a similar knife for sale at half my price. I have more success selling knives from my facebook page. This is a tough business to break in to especially when some of the makers are practically giving their stuff away. I lost my paying job last year due to a merger and thought that I would give this a shot. Bad decision! Don't get me wrong, I love to make knives and didnt enter into this full time thinking that I would get rich. I just didnt fully appreciate the dynamics at play. I guess I'll keep on keepin on and who knows maybe things will improve. Keep up the excellent work!