A plastic Spyder.....

Hi STR,
I agree with you,these knive's serve a purpose.It's hard to believe other knife collector's are bashing the plastic knive's.
Pete
 
Well

Yes these items can be used for evil purposes, but a knife is a tool until the user decides otherwise.

Btw, while the construction of these items makes them easier to past certain security measures, there are additional measures in place (as anyone that flys knows). Getting caught trying board a flight with such an implement would get you in a lot of trouble the least of which would be a visit to the bad man with the big hands (no not your doctor either).

And finally, personal attacks on designers and companies that produce these products is really uncalled for.
 
pageophile said:
And finally, personal attacks on designers and companies that produce these products is really uncalled for.
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Besides that, there are already enough reasons to gripe about Cold Steel. I am personally more insulted by their use of 420 for a knife than plastic. Neither of them cut very well, but at least the plastic isn't heavy.
 
Spyderco usually makes room for new products by discontinuing current ones. Personally, I'd hate to see a current Spyderco model discontinued to make room for a plastic/nylon/etc. model. There are too many steel bladed possibilities that could be explored first!

David
 
I find it all amusing actually. Anything can be used for an evil purpose. I think any given human could give new meaning to evil with a broom stick if he set his mind to it. Whats the point?

The fact is: if Spyderco did mess with something like this to make and market it, it would be useful and of high enough quality to give praise to and not condemn as a toy or some of the other names seen for these "PsOS" as they were called in this thread.

Shomer Tec and other Police and Military catalogs sell these 'stealth' items for police work and some of them buy them for various reasons. The so called "CIA letter opener" has been around since I was a child so these items are not new either.
 
Thanks for your inputs STR. I was beginning to think i made a big blunder by starting this thread.

In my collection I have a pair of Cold Steel's FGX Push daggers made of "Gryphon" (nylon), which resembles the Safekeeper III model. Now although these are not in the same class as the AUS-8 early model Safekeeper III that I have, I still find them interesting. Also, they were so cheap that I can leave them in the car and not worry about them being stolen.

It was more out of a "I find them interesting" point of view that I started this thread, plus the fact that imagine if you could get a LOW cost Spyderco version That you could buy and laugh about the price :)

I understand the "threat" potential, but I don't believe that a nylon or plastic knife will enable you to attack multiple persons effectively over an extended period. They just don't have the same sharpness and strength as steel. My 2c.
 
Andre said:
It was more out of a "I find them interesting" point of view that I started this thread, plus the fact that imagine if you could get a LOW cost Spyderco version That you could buy and laugh about the price :)
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It would be neat to have. A serrated plastic edge is actually plenty useful for opening envelopes and boxes, even if a steel blade would be 100 times better. I had one of those plastic dagger things Lansky made. I had to sharpen the edge a little, but at the time it was less feared than a real dagger.

They make lettuce knives out of cheap unknown plastic, so a knife made from zytel ought to be good for something, if only food. They could probably increase the glass percent to make a more knife-like material. How about other materials? You could probably make a pretty good one out of G10 or any of the other pressed fiber laminates.

Someone at a flea market had a bunch of slipjoints they made entirely out of wood, so I don't see why a plastic knife shouldn't make it into someone's collection. It's not like it would be the first knife one of us never actually used.
 
I'd like to see Spyderco make some plastic trainers actually. I think it would be a good thing for sparring. Yes the steel trainers are sweet to use for drills, but getting tagged on the wrist or a shinbone... That's one sensation I can live without. :eek: :mad: :(
 
The problem I see is that anyone who is bringing a knife (or in this case, a sharpened piece of industrial plastic) into an area where there are distinct deterrants (ie. metal detectors) has a motive beyond the desire to open some boxes or cut up an apple. I'm not saying that they are necessarily planning to carry out insurgent action, but they are not simply bringing a knife to work, or carrying a blade for multi-purpose use. It is this type of product that leads to overreactions if they cause problems, or even if there is a slow newsday. The first thing I thought when I looked at these items was, hey those things are like the sharpened toothbrushes that are so popular on that "Oz" show.
 
camblam said:
The problem I see is that anyone who is bringing a knife (or in this case, a sharpened piece of industrial plastic) into an area where there are distinct deterrants (ie. metal detectors) has a motive beyond the desire to open some boxes or cut up an apple.
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Two things:

1: I've heard of lots of people getting ceramic folders because they want _utility_ knives that'll pass metal detectors. The idea being that in some areas, _intrusive_ security checks (like at the doors to clubs, museums, concerts, and sometimes even convenience stores) are prevalent enough to prevent a person from carrying any knife ever. When you don't drive, if one tin-god along your route sets up a pointless metal detector, you have to go knifeless all day.

2: I can't _endorse_ that idea, 'cause it's illegal and violates another person's rights. If the storeowner wants to say "no small Swiss Army Knives allowed", that's his right. Hell, if he wants to say "no green t-shirts on my property", well, that's his right, too. I wouldn't mind seeing _some_ constraints placed on the right to restrict passive behavior on semi-public private property (in the same way that a privately-owned store has to have a wheelchair ramp, and can't exclude jews or black people), but that ain't the way it is.

Just wanted to point out that "beating security" and "out to hurt people" aren't always the same thing. :)
 
camblam said:
The problem I see is that anyone who is bringing a knife (or in this case, a sharpened piece of industrial plastic) into an area where there are distinct deterrants (ie. metal detectors) has a motive beyond the desire to open some boxes or cut up an apple. I'm not saying that they are necessarily planning to carry out insurgent action, but they are not simply bringing a knife to work, or carrying a blade for multi-purpose use.
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I disagree. I carry anywhere from two to three knives every day. Each one for a specific purpose. I try to carry them with me everywhere because doing so makes them "second nature" , less conspicuous, and therefore makes me less vulnerable to any predators natural to an urban environment. I find it offensive, to suggest that : just because I chose to carry a knife, I have alternative, or subversive motives. I try to avoid places like courthouses, and anywhere else that this practice takes place. The reason being that if I have to surrender my knives to the deputy, that makes me vulnerable. I’d just as soon people didn’t know that I carry anything that might be considered a weapon. But to suggest that my reason for carrying a knife or knives should be suspect, is just the sort of mindset that has Spyderco’s getting confiscated by Canadian border guards. It also enforces the spurious notion that : I am safer if my best means of self-defense is taken away form me by those who are sworn to protect me.
 
Point taken, there are many perfectly legitimate motives for carrying a knife. Yet surely you can see that as long as the use of metal detectors is not spurious these knives make it easier for someone to carry them places where they aren't appropriate, or is everywhere suitable? IMHO if you actively choose to contravene measures enacted to protect people in a particular space (ie. clubs, museums, concerts, and sometimes even convenience stores) then your motive is suspect. The idea of personal protection in secured spaces is a slippery slope because everyone who comes expects a level of protection as well, and aren't they entitled to it? I would certainly be pissed if someone brought one on my airplane.
 
The notion that we are safer if we turn over any and all “weapons” to the authorities has been debunked. In truth, it only makes you more vulnerable. Currently, states are recognizing that it is unnecessary to disarm people while entering “some” of these establishments. I don’t necessarily agree that the use of metal detectors is not spurious. Contrarily, these places seem to be a magnate for mayhem (especially lately). I understand that such devices will make it more difficult for the criminal/terrorist/general nogoodnik, but let’s face it, these individuals make a living getting around such measures. In the end, all they truly accomplish is giving the bad guys a target rich environment.
 
I guess I can chime in, i have been watching this for a while.
I can understand the need and/or want for a plastic knife. However, just like any tool, it can be abused. With that said, I understand why cheep and light are good things. Though I am not sure that spyderco is the right manufacturer for the job. It would take a lot of work to roll out a plastic spyder, and I dont want steel knives to be replaced.
 
Zerileous said:
I guess I can chime in, i have been watching this for a while.
I can understand the need and/or want for a plastic knife. However, just like any tool, it can be abused. With that said, I understand why cheep and light are good things. Though I am not sure that spyderco is the right manufacturer for the job. It would take a lot of work to roll out a plastic spyder, and I dont want steel knives to be replaced.
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I agree, and thanks for getting us back on track. There are plenty of "plastic" knives on the market. I would much rather Spyderco put out steel blades. :)
 
It seems that there are quite a few "plastic" knives on the market and I would hate for Spyderco to drop one of my favs for a less useful knive. However, the appeal is still there and it would probably be at a price that anyone could afford, with all the collectors and limited runs the "plastics" may never even hit the streets. I for one would buy one just for a conversation piece, and I am no terrorist.
It really upsets me though that so many poeple can say so many things about what these knives can potentially be used for. What I mean is, and it has been my experience, if the criminals mind wants to do something it will. All the gun laws in the world are not preventing people from getting illegal guns and using them for illegal purposes. The "terrorist" talk about these "covert" items just lends to the fact that we are afraid not of the items, but the people themselves. Besides, if the terrorists were really hard up, why would they go through the trouble of purchasing a "plastic" "covert" knife, when they can just sharpen their toothbrush?

-greg
 
One more time boys and girls:
If you can use a knife to take over on airplane... You don't need a knife!

And really folks if some nutcase pulled a plastic knife on a plane, would you let him crash the plane? Some crazy tried to use a shoe bomb and he was tackled like it was superbowl sunday.

It is the willingness not the opportunity.

Let us realize the core issues are what ever topic we speak of.

And as for the original topic... I think Spyderco should make plastic trainers as to make them affordable to everybody. I mean $50 for a knife is one thing but *another* $50 for the trainer?

As for covert knives, I don't see how Sal could me enough money to be worth it.
 
That is a good idea Clint Simpson, however, plastic trainers are supposed to be accurate weight and balance wise, and the trainer would not offer that, unless it was somehow weighted. I do agree that the trainer could be made of a cheeper steel like 420 or even 410 and be fine since it is not going to actually be used for an edge. Especially now the perforated blades are used instead of tipless versions of the regular knife without an edge.
 
A knife made of ANY polymer or composite will give inferior performance for what you would expect a knife to do (AFAIK), hence metal alloys are used.

The trainer is an intriguing idea though. I do not pretend to understand what makes a good trainer but the plastic could be used as a thick coating on the 'blade' so it is more slippery (PTFE?) and much more rounded for safety. Maybe some kind of reservoir or groove that could hold coloured chalk, lipstick or ink similar to the idea behind training with marker pens.

I would be very surprised if Spyderco came out with something like the Cold Steel Delta Dart (why bother?) but I could see it making sense somewhere in a trainer.
 
Clint Simpson said:
One more time boys and girls:
If you can use a knife to take over on airplane... You don't need a knife!
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Not real sure what you mean by this. Other formites tried to bring this back to topic but you seem to want to address the political aspects.

So, if a terrorist can use a knife to take over an airplane on which I am a passenger, then I don’t need a knife?

I agree that I would be better off with a gun with which I could stop the terrorist. That allows me to dispense of the threat with comparatively minimal danger to myself and others (except the bad guy, of course). However, in absence of a firearm, a knife would come in handy, especially since I would “hopefully” have the other passengers aiding me. Are we next going to remove any and all narcotics from airplanes? They also could be used to take over an airplane. Never mind that it was just this sort of thing that was used to subdue Richard Ried (sp?). Or would you just rather sit there and wait for the F-16 to shoot down you and everyone else on board?

To suggest that I shouldn’t have, or don’t need a certain weapon is the same, tired, old, argument that suggests I am safer if I give up my best means of self defense. Box cutters, knives, nail clippers, and knitting needles didn’t bring down any planes, nor are they likely to in the future.

When ten grown, healthy men stand by and watch as one man slit’s the throat of a flight attendant, they are more responsible for that flight attendant’s death than the knife the bad guy used for the deed. People like to throw off their own responsibility, and blame inanimate objects for evil deeds. They like to think that the terrorists were aided by “box cutters”. They do this because they don’t want to accept the culpability of their own inaction. For decades, the American people have been programmed to “give in to the bad guys”. We’ve been told to “give the hijacker/armed robber/rapist what the want”. When they shot one of our sailors, and threw him onto the tarmac, we just turned a blind eye. “After all, they killed him because he was an American serviceman, and they won’t go after civilians“. When the convenience store clerk is killed, we just say “it happened because the clerk did something to spook his killer.” Finally, when a little girl/boy is abducted, raped, and killed, we just say “it’s because the monster had a bad life, he couldn’t help himself, he doesn‘t need jail or a death sentence, he needs therapy”.

Sadly, 9/11 hasn’t taught us much. Unless “more cowering, and placing my safeyt in other's hands” is a lesson.
 
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