A real Umnumzaan owners review!

I'm disappointed to hear that it does not have a pivot bushing. The bushing and tight tolerances of CRK are what drew me to them, and to see that they are downgrading how tight their tolerances are because they had a few problems is a disappointment.

Scott Dog said:
The new pivot system should more or less eliminate the need for breaking the knife down. And when reassembly is wanted or needed buy the owner, the likelyhood of it being reassembled properly is highly increased.

I highly disagree. How does the new pivot eliminate the need for taking the knife apart to clean it? It seems like this is a strict departure from the company's philosophy of easy dis/reassembly. CRK wanted us to take apart and clean our Sebenzas. Reassembly is much easier with a bushing, because you know just how tight to tighten the pivot, and you don't have to fiddle with the tightness or use loc-tite. Just because a few cases happened where the bushing or washers were slightly off (this happened to my Sebenza) does not mean CRK should change their whole philosophy which, in my case, is what made me want one.
 
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I'm going to join my voice to those questioning the elimination of the pivot bushing. Those tight tolerances, and the easy disassembly of the knives, are what lead me to become a CRK "true believer" in the first place. I can't see how abandoning those qualities is going to make the product any better.
 
I really doubt that CRK has eliminated any of their "tight" tolerances in this knife. What they have eliminated is several parts and manufacturing steps, reducing their cost and (I would imagine) improving their productivity.

I seems to me that Chris has put a lot of thought and effort into a new product that meets his standards yet is less complicated to manufacture.

Look, I really enjoy disassembling a Sebenza then having to deal with a bushing that is such a tight fit it is difficult to get back together without perfect alignment but many people just aren't tinkerers or that handy with their hands.

Personally, I don't need another large folder I will carry perhaps twice a year but I think Chris is trying to open up a new market for his admittedly expensive knives and has every right (perhaps even a duty to his employees and investors) to do so even if it seems to violate or ignore the please of his existing market.

Let's wait and see how successful the knife is in this new market. If it turns out to have flaws then it won't be successful but I hope it is even if I don't care for one. Hey, I don't buy his fixed blades either . . .
 
I was going to jump on here and say nice things about the new design all because I WANT it to be a great design. But as everyone knows negative comments and feelings have more passion then positive ones. So I'll voice mine.

No pivot bushing?! Please, this is one of the qualities that set CRK's folders above the rest. There maybe owners that can't put it back together, which I understand some people will not take the time or energy to do so. Or they some times will not focus and think about what they are doing. So they screw it up and send it to CRK. It COSTS time and manpower also known as money for CRK to fix the problem and send it back. Charging $11 or 13 or whatever it is for them to send it back does put a little cash in CRKs pocket but nothing in comparison to the manpower to takes to fix this "problem". SO they take out the pivot bushing on the new knife. Fine. Use the pivot screw most likely one will tighten it down to their liking, use the knife and the screw loosens up, tighten, loosen, tighten, etc. So one of two things are going to happen. 1) CRK makes a change in the design (I'll comment on this later) or 2) CRK or the owner puts blue Loctite on it. Great! just buy another brand if you want to use a half-ass fix like Loctite. "It wasn't made or designed in the first place so lets glue it". Enough of the pivot problem, you guys get the idea.

Glass breaker...gimmick. It doesn't belong on a $400+ knife. Buy a Spyderco or Benchmade for a rescue tool; professional or vehicle duty.

I'm with DaveH on the whole CRK doesn't communicate well (putting it nice). The GB test, yeah the test was a little extreme but please that knife shattered like a piece of glass. All you needs is the Umnumzaan's glass breaker and you're done. Something was wrong with that piece or maybe all of them, I don't know. Compare the Strider to the GB, the Strider did well. And this is coming from someone that doesn't like Strider, not the knives but the history. Need another example? Sure, what about the chipping in the Sebenzas? Answer; that is how S30V is. Pffff, please this is a high end production that was designed and built buy the man that helped create the S30V "cutlery" steel. Spyderco, Benchmade and others seem to have it down. How can they do better then one of the creators? Not possible......

...What answers do we get from CRK about this? Basically, we get blown off. There is nothing wrong with the designs or manufacturing. Maybe we are that stupid or I'm just that much of a jerk to believe this.

Oh and referring to the comment about CRK lowering their standard and it still being great. Well, this maybe be true but frankly if they lower it anymore they will not be CRK. The one area CRK shines is in the pivot. For example, good old Benchmade can crank out hundreds or maybe thousands of knives per day. Their blades and handles are perfect, cut on CNC machines. Everyone is the same. Tight fit and clean finish. But their pivot is not so tight, smooth yes but solid? No. Why? Because it takes manpower and time which equals a more expensive knife to equal the feel of a custom or high end production like CRK. We spend twice or three times the money to get the extra little fit and finish on the CRK product.

Okay, enough. On with the positive.

Can a pivot be tight and perfect such as the Sebenza with no bushing? Sure. But it will take some time to make sure it is right on each knife. Pivot screws female shaft that is left once it is placed through the hole of the handle will have to be just long enough for the thickness of the lube. Say .001" longer, for example...but tighter the better. What does that mean? Add the thicknesses of handle, blade, washers, lube and minus the handle recess will equal the length of the shaft from the mating surface of the screw head. In the end you should have a pivot screw that, when tightened completely, will not have any lateral movement. Of course I'm not a knife maker so this is just a guess from one with no hands on building experience.

Oh and I think that you have a better chance of messing up the reassembly with this design then the Sebenza. You could pinch the washer between the shaft end, blade and handle.

I'm I going to buy one? Sure. It maybe one of those knives that work better in the hand then in theory. Maybe they did do the pivot screw has I explained. Maybe they did listen to all the problem with the S30V and have looked into their HT. I don't know, I'll have to wait and see. If I don't like it, it doesn't work for me in use then it will move onto someone that does like it and will (or not) use it.

I'm sure I'm done complaining and I bet DaveH is too. Carry one with the happy-go-lucky discussion.:thumbup:
 
Dave my explaination was only my opinion and calling your comments chickenshit was probably was uncalled for on my part and I am sorry for that. I think we all need to calm down and see how things shake out. The new pivot doesn't eliminate the need to break it down, it just makes it necessary to do it less often and hopefully re-assembly won't be as difficult. It should also make for a smoother openning blade. And yes Dave we need people like you to point out problems. All of our opinions matter and I do feel that Chris listens to our input. I also believe that he wouldn't put his name on a product that doesn't meet his high standards.:thumbup::cool::p:D
 
Xcel,

I whole heartedly agree about the "glass breaker" on a $400 knife....either end of slabs of a regular Sebenza worked just fine. +1 to just about everything you said.
 
Xcel,

I whole heartedly agree about the "glass breaker" on a $400 knife....either end of slabs of a regular Sebenza worked just fine. +1 to just about everything you said.

I would use the glass breaker if someone's life was on the line assuming I couldn't find a rock or pipe or anything. The knife is cheap in comparison to someone's life.

On the other hand what are the chances of not having a tool on hand to break glass if you are in the business of saving life? Slim. Really slim.

Cutting to the chase....does the glass breaker even work? No really. I mean was there any testing behind it? If you are going to design a tool to save someone's life you need to test it to make sure it work. Plain and simple. Basically, if CRK didn't do any testing then someone needs to. I just don't mean, does the glass breaker work. How well? How does it compare to say a Spyderco Assist? Or maybe do some comparison to some knives with metal handles such as the Sebenza or BM520, just for example. Ohhhh, or those new "tactical" pens people are going nuts O' after. Those pens are hard and pointy.
 
agreed. The um num.....holds no interest for me. It's ugly, overly complicated and way too big. With the ever widening net of knife laws, it seems it would be more reasonable to make knives that folks could carry legally.

I'm sure it appeals to a lot of folks, but just because CRK makes it, doesn't mean it's the bees knees.

Brett
I would use the glass breaker if someone's life was on the line assuming I couldn't find a rock or pipe or anything. The knife is cheap in comparison to someone's life.

On the other hand what are the chances of not having a tool on hand to break glass if you are in the business of saving life? Slim. Really slim.

Cutting to the chase....does the glass breaker even work? No really. I mean was there any testing behind it? If you are going to design a tool to save someone's life you need to test it to make sure it work. Plain and simple. Basically, if CRK didn't do any testing then someone needs to. I just don't mean, does the glass breaker work. How well? How does it compare to say a Spyderco Assist? Or maybe do some comparison to some knives with metal handles such as the Sebenza or BM520, just for example. Ohhhh, or those new "tactical" pens people are going nuts O' after. Those pens are hard and pointy.
 
I really want to like the Um-num numm nummie numm :D but I just can't. No bushing! Really?

Really? They are joking right?

I like my sebbies so much because I can just take the pivot out, pull blade and clean without breaking the whole knife down. Its the pivot bushing that let's you and me do it. No washers move as you slide the blade in. This new um numm nummie numm na numm um um....:D is not better! IMHO

Glass breaker? Really?
Sharp swedge? Really? They are sooooo far off from what we have been asking for!

Its crazy, they have a forum here.......yet we NEVER hear a peep from a Mod?

Chris I LOVE your Sebenza, I just think "other" hungry production company's are blowing your doors off. (spyderco, kershaw) They hear us! Not sure how well this new umm numm nam nua nummie nuanum ma...:D will go over. Time will tell, sorry for the rant. I just think they missed the mark here, by a long shot.

Also no small ='s less knives sold, as most of us here buy more than one size.;)
 
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Its crazy, they have a forum here.......yet we NEVER hear a peep from a Mod?

perhaps hubris? I hope not. But I'm surprised by the lack of participation on some of the forums here. CRK is one prominent one. The hardcore knife folks are HERE! Everyday! You'd think it would be a great testing ground for new stuff.

Alas...:)

Brett
 
I'm not sure why there is such a big deal made about the glass breaker. Looking at the knife in person, I don't think I would have given it a second thought if lots of people here didn't make such a big deal about it. People in the business of saving lives may have a glass breaker available but by the time they get there (to the scene of an accident) those trapped inside would be toast. In an emergency, (like life or death) your mind goes blank, time in seconds seems like time in years and your fingers become big akward sausages. The tool needs to be available in a place where you can get to it without thinking (like my left front pocket;)) about it. I think the glass breaker would be nice to use as an impact weapon. I see it being able to make a nice neat little hole in a bad guys head with out the risk of openning the blade and the mess that goes with it. In a less lethal sense, a well placed blow between the ribs of Mr. Bad guy will cause the lung to quickly collapse and Mr or less likely Ms. BG will quickly lose their ability to breathe effectively and will more than likely not be able to continue to be aggressive. The glass breaker is very subtle. Does it work to break glass? Chris isn't stupid and wouldn't go to the time, expense and effort to include it if it didn't. But of course that's just my not so humble opinion. Only time will tell and my opinion is that this knife represents taking the Seb to a higher level but only time will tell. When I get mine I will give a good run for it's money and to tell you the truth, I've been taking the train lately to go work and that train runs through Compton and Willmington, both notorious crime and gang infested areas of L.A. There's no shortage of homeless and begger drug addicts that I mingle with in my quest to save money on gas and I tell you having the new foler will make me more confident on the train.:eek:
 
You found the Glass breaker subtle?.....It jumps out like a giant boil when closed. As far a weapon......not enough to collapse a lung and using a knife in any fashion is aggravated assault, best to keep a knife a tool less the Gov. try to take those away as well and just use a closed fist to strike someone rather than a closed knife. For me, after handling the huminahuminahawa at Blade.....I felt it was a slap in the face of the simple beauty that is Chris Reeve Knives and is bordering Dork Ops territory.

Again, I hate to rehash the whole glass breaker, but I HAVE used the "pointy" end of my large Sebenza just fine to break out the small rear passenger glass of my M-I-L's car when my 2 week old was locked inside.....worked beautifully....no need for that zit on the new knife nor the super grooved handle and the waved blade that could make a beach jealous.

I hate say negative things, but I love the Sebenza so much and hate to see this mockery of it....even the cheap "o" rings on the thumb studs?! What is that about.......sorry the all metal on was hard on some tender thumbs out there, but please....seems like something on a 20 dollar Walmart knife.

On a different note......why cancel the 9" blades....again...some of my favorite....perhaps I am just angry?!
 
The glass breaker is not deal breaker for me....... In fact none are, I will get one to try. As everyone who as seen it in person loves it. They can't all be crazy, and Chris does know how to make a folder!

We are all just butt hurt over it not being a warnie reg. Sebbie. :D
 
Not having a bushing is a negative IMO. The Sebenza is my favorite knife bar none. I like the fact that the blade has no play or wobble even if I try to make it move. When it locks up it is almost like a fixed blade. I had a Hinderer and as much as I liked the knife and it was in every way as much quality as a CR but, I never got over the fact that it didn't have a bushing so it saw less pocket time and no it didn't have any blade play. All of my other knives since I got my first Sebbie seem somewhat inferior to me. I am not saying that a knife needs a bushing to be a quality knife since their are so many quality knives that don't have one production or custom. I just like that feature and wish all knives had one.
 
I'm going to have to add my reinforcement to the anti lobby.

I simply cannot hardy believe that this knife doesn't have a bushing in the pivot.

I mean that feature on it's own is what makes a Sebenza what is is, one of the best folding knives available. You can strip and assemble it hundreds of times and simply by tightening the screws, that's the end of the assembly - no checking tension, swing, blade setting or anything else that comes with 99.9% of all other knives.

I am calling no deal to this one, immediately. Loctite! never in my bloody life will I need Loctite for a Chris Reeve folder - it's nearly embarrassing to water down your standards like that and expect folk to believe that it's as good.

By the love and grace of God, long may the Sebenza stay :)
 
I rank the pivot bushing as the most important thing about the sebenza. It's why I carry it over any other knife.

Without a pivot bushing, CRK should sell the umnumzaan for at least $100 less than the sebenza.
 
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