A really unusual 24 blade folder - has anybody ever seen one of these?

[Will Power]

Yes, and was this an expensive purchase? If not, a bargain from all aspects- unique, odd and thought-provoking

 

[ed_is_dead]

Yes, and was this an expensive purchase? If not, a bargain from all aspects- unique, odd and thought-provoking

Can only imagine the thrill of seeing such a time travelling gem finding it's way to cross my path like that. Objects like that radiate the history of the men who made them and the time that has passed.

 

[mrknife]

Dear god man i suppose this is one way knife makers flex

 

[Suffolkuk]

Further to what I've already said, would it be possible for you to photograph them all, and list all the stamps, noting the blades which aren't stamped?

Not for the past few years. I assume the archive is still there, just taken offline, but it has been like that for a couple of years at least. Most of the photos were taken by Sheffield Museums, but the archive included a number taken by Geoff Tweedale, of knives in his personal collection. I have no idea why the number of knives, on public display, has declined to such a low level. A number of members of this forum have visited Sheffield, to view the knives in the museums, and their absence is an embarrassment, frankly, and inexplicable in a city built on cutlery. Stan Shaw was very upset when they stuck a number of his knives back in the storage

Thanks

In the next day or two I will try to photograph all markings and all blades. I seem To have a difficulty posting pictures on this site but if you can give me an email I will send them directly to you and you could possibly put up anything you think people would find of interest. I think your knowledge of these things is far superior to mine in this area and I suspect that there are a good few other people on this forum I can learn from as well.

regarding the museum I suspect it’s like most things, it’s dependent on finance, resources, space and people. I haven’t been up to Sheffield since the death of my father years ago. My wife says it’s too cold, I cannot find my way around the place anymore and most of it has changed beyond recognition. Also everybody I knew up their is now dead.

it’s like Birmingham which has now archived vast amounts of its Elkington material since it closed down it’s Elkington museum. That’s why a digital archive is so important, at least you and everybody else then knows what they have got. If you show them you have a genuine interest and give them a month or so notice the V&A seem happy to give you access to everything they have in storage and I have had the same response from Ipswich Museum in the past.

I will contact Sheffield and try to find out what the situation is. It usually takes a bit of time for people to come back on things but it usually happens.

again many thanks for your and others continuing help. I have a little bit Of knowledge about knife related things but not that much, but I do have a great interest in learning more.

I also have a couple more unusual things - not I suspect as unusual as this one but again they are in areas that I don’t really know much about. I am thinking of what I suspect is a first campaign crested cutlery set which people might be interested in and have ideas on. I must hunt it out try to find a way of getting pictures up. Doe sent seem to work from an iPad. I always use one because they are handy, portable and take good pictures.

 

[Suffolkuk]

Yes, and was this an expensive purchase? If not, a bargain from all aspects- unique, odd and thought-provoking

Actualy it was Not that expensive. i have bought from the dealer before who specialises in Pens and writing materials. He also collects so he is not just doing it for the money.
he knows what I make and my history and that I would not be buying to resell. His parting words were “your going to really enjoy reasurching that one, it’s going to a good home. Rather a nice thing to say.

 

[Jack Black]

In the next day or two I will try to photograph all markings and all blades. I seem To have a difficulty posting pictures on this site but if you can give me an email I will send them directly to you and you could possibly put up anything you think people would find of interest. I think your knowledge of these things is far superior to mine in this area and I suspect that there are a good few other people on this forum I can learn from as well.

regarding the museum I suspect it’s like most things, it’s dependent on finance, resources, space and people. I haven’t been up to Sheffield since the death of my father years ago. My wife says it’s too cold, I cannot find my way around the place anymore and most of it has changed beyond recognition. Also everybody I knew up their is now dead.

it’s like Birmingham which has now archived vast amounts of its Elkington material since it closed down it’s Elkington museum. That’s why a digital archive is so important, at least you and everybody else then knows what they have got. If you show them you have a genuine interest and give them a month or so notice the V&A seem happy to give you access to everything they have in storage and I have had the same response from Ipswich Museum in the past.

I will contact Sheffield and try to find out what the situation is. It usually takes a bit of time for people to come back on things but it usually happens.

again many thanks for your and others continuing help. I have a little bit Of knowledge about knife related things but not that much, but I do have a great interest in learning more.

I also have a couple more unusual things - not I suspect as unusual as this one but again they are in areas that I don’t really know much about. I am thinking of what I suspect is a first campaign crested cutlery set which people might be interested in and have ideas on. I must hunt it out try to find a way of getting pictures up. Doe sent seem to work from an iPad. I always use one because they are handy, portable and take good pictures.

Sorry Dave, I'd thought you were still in Sheffield. It's certainly changed a lot, and I have less reason to visit, from Leeds, myself. I used to visit a couple of times a month, but I haven't been over since Stan Shaw died a couple of years ago. If they're still here, I'll post a few links to some photo threads below, which you might like to see (sadly, many of the old threads here are a mess).

The museums are still there in Sheffield, but for some reason, they have marginalised cutlery. Even the industrial museum has a lot less on display than I have in my bedroom. They do have the Year Knife though!

I'm afraid there's not much point providing links to some of my old threads, which I put hours of work into, because, thanks to the last forum software changes here, ALL the photos are now missing

 

[Suffolkuk]

Dave, if it's not too much much trouble, would you mind going through the blades of the knife, and list them numerically, from 1 to 24, listing what you can read on the tang stamp, or if you can't read anything? Even better if you can post a photo of each

I can think of several reasons why the blades contain different stamps:

1) The blades were made by another cutler or cutlers, and either 'inherited' (with a workshop for example), or bought in, either specifically for this knife, or as a 'job lot'.
2) The knife was made by another cutler.
3) The knife was made for a factor, and the other stamps relate to his business.
4) The marks were used by John Taylor prior to him acquiring his Eye Witness stamp.
5) Cutlers very often registered 'secondary' marks, in addition to their name/name of their business, 'Depend', 'IXL', etc. Edit - in this case, they included '1000', 'ONWARD', and 'LIBERTY'.
6) The knife was repaired.
7) It was made up by a Little Mester using parts he already had.

You are thinking on exactly the same lines as I am. In Sheffield especially early on pree 1830 there was a lot of cottage industry., well mostly actually. People were specialists, they made one thing, scooped the mornings work into their apron at lunch time and took it down to the guy in the next shop for him to do his thing.
st the age of 11 in 1961 I remember that one of my “jobs” was to do just that. I was Mr Simernights lad, his runner I took the mornings work to the people who needed it. ‘Toms got 20, Collins got 30 Dave. Write it down and don’t get it bloody wrong or he will have a go at me.” And I got the bits he needed/

some chaps worked for themselves but were “contracted in “ by others for specific jobs because of their specific expertise at certain things.

I will do it in the next couple of days - but I still haven’t managed to work out how to post pictures of my eye pad on the site. So if you have an email I can send direct.

 

[Jack Black]

You are thinking on exactly the same lines as I am. In Sheffield especially early on pree 1830 there was a lot of cottage industry., well mostly actually. People were specialists, they made one thing, scooped the mornings work into their apron at lunch time and took it down to the guy in the next shop for him to do his thing.
st the age of 11 in 1961 I remember that one of my “jobs” was to do just that. I was Mr Simernights lad, his runner I took the mornings work to the people who needed it. ‘Toms got 20, Collins got 30 Dave. Write it down and don’t get it bloody wrong or he will have a go at me.” And I got the bits he needed/

some chaps worked for themselves but were “contracted in “ by others for specific jobs because of their specific expertise at certain things.

I will do it in the next couple of days - but I still haven’t managed to work out how to post pictures of my eye pad on the site. So if you have an email I can send direct.

I doubt anyone who hasn't experienced it, can really appreciate the working system in Sheffield Dave, (it comes up time and time again here), or understand why dating early Sheffield knives can be so difficult. Even though there are only a few cutlers left in Sheffield now, there is still an element of the old 'system', with work being contracted out to Little Mesters, firms doing work for each other, different tang stamps being used, etc. The last time I was at a Sheffield cutlers, they were making up knives for two other Sheffield firms, and for numerous dealers, some of whom had their own stamps, as well as selling parts to cutlers unskilled in making blades themselves

 

[Suffolkuk]

I doubt anyone who hasn't experienced it, can really appreciate the working system in Sheffield Dave, (it comes up time and time again here), or understand why dating early Sheffield knives can be so difficult. Even though there are only a few cutlers left in Sheffield now, there is still an element of the old 'system', with work being contracted out to Little Mesters, firms doing work for each other, different tang stamps being used, etc. The last time I was at a Sheffield cutlers, they were making up knives for two other Sheffield firms, and for numerous dealers, some of whom had their own stamps, as well as selling parts to cutlers unskilled in making blades themselves

I guessed that. It worked though. You knew everybody and they knew you. Have you run into Grace? Hope she is still going. I take it she would still be working out of the gents urinal she got from the council.

some of the best work I have ever seen.

 

[Jack Black]

I guessed that. It worked though. You knew everybody and they knew you. Have you run into Grace? Hope she is still going. I take it she would still be working out of the gents urinal she got from the council.

some of the best work I have ever seen.

It did work, and for hundreds of years. We've never met. She still has the place, but I don't think she's there much. You have my email mate, if you could copy it, I'll edit it out

 

[Suffolkuk]

It did work, and for hundreds of years. We've never met. She still has the place, but I don't think she's there much. You have my email mate, if you could copy it, I'll edit it out

Thanks, I suspect it’s me and how the machine is set up but I am finding it really difficult to track things on this site. Can you send me your email again please as I cannot find it.

 

[Jack Black]

Thanks, I suspect it’s me and how the machine is set up but I am finding it really difficult to track things on this site. Can you send me your email again please as I cannot find it.

I've emailed you Dave, you might want to edit your post now

 

[Suffolkuk]

In the next day or two I will try to photograph all markings and all blades. I seem To have a difficulty posting pictures on this site but if you can give me an email I will send them directly to you and you could possibly put up anything you think people would find of interest. I think your knowledge of these things is far superior to mine in this area and I suspect that there are a good few other people on this forum I can learn from as well.

regarding the museum I suspect it’s like most things, it’s dependent on finance, resources, space and people. I haven’t been up to Sheffield since the death of my father years ago. My wife says it’s too cold, I cannot find my way around the place anymore and most of it has changed beyond recognition. Also everybody I knew up their is now dead.

it’s like Birmingham which has now archived vast amounts of its Elkington material since it closed down it’s Elkington museum. That’s why a digital archive is so important, at least you and everybody else then knows what they have got. If you show them you have a genuine interest and give them a month or so notice the V&A seem happy to give you access to everything they have in storage and I have had the same response from Ipswich Museum in the past.

I will contact Sheffield and try to find out what the situation is. It usually takes a bit of time for people to come back on things but it usually happens.

again many thanks for your and others continuing help. I have a little bit Of knowledge about knife related things but not that much, but I do have a great interest in learning more.

I also have a couple more unusual things - not I suspect as unusual as this one but again they are in areas that I don’t really know much about. I am thinking of what I suspect is a first campaign crested cutlery set which people might be interested in and have ideas on. I must hunt it out try to find a way of getting pictures up. Doe sent seem to work from an iPad. I always use one because they are handy, portable and take good pictures.

I have now sent pictures to your email as requested. Feel free to put them up or youse them as you may. If you want anything else let me know - and thanks for the help.

 

[Jack Black]

I have now sent pictures to your email as requested. Feel free to put them up or youse them as you may. If you want anything else let me know - and thanks for the help.

Thanks Dave, will do I've only just got in I'm afraid, but will get back to you later

 

[Jack Black]

Here are the images I received from Dave by email:

 

[Suffolkuk]

Here are the images I received from Dave by email:

Many thanks for putting these up Jack. If anybody has any thoughts or ideas I would really like to know about them. I am going to clean it up a bit because it’s filthy and full of muck but I am going to be very, very careful.

 

[Suffolkuk]

It did work, and for hundreds of years. We've never met. She still has the place, but I don't think she's there much. You have my email mate, if you could copy it, I'll edit it out

I suspect she is making as much if not more from the corsets she makes - aparently they are very popular, collected and sell for a hell of a lot of money.

 

[Jack Black]

I suspect she is making as much if not more from the corsets she makes - aparently they are very popular, collected and sell for a hell of a lot of money.

Yes indeed, pretty weird when she combines the two!

 

[Jack Black]

Many thanks for putting these up Jack. If anybody has any thoughts or ideas I would really like to know about them. I am going to clean it up a bit because it’s filthy and full of muck but I am going to be very, very careful.

You're welcome Dave When you'd said some of the blades were Brocken, I thought you were talking about the tang-stamp, rather than that you still had a Sheffield accent!

 

[Suffolkuk]

Yes indeed, pretty weird when she combines the two!

have you seen them? Just like the rest of her work they are actually amazing. She gas been making for the burlesque industry and I think for a couple of films. I think she actually did something with knives or scissors for Lady GaGa. That’s what a degree in fine art will do for yo- coupled of course with a PHD on Damascus steel.

an amazing lady