A "safer" London? (This will turn your stomach)

Originally posted by Rubber Ducky
Check this out.

The US just always likes to do things on a grander scale :)

Pierre
Click to expand...

This so-called Information Awareness Office, would have fit in nicely with the old KGB and their "Snitch off your neighbor for brownie points" program. Here are a couple of quotes from my not nearly completed "Liberty Warrior" website, which many people in the good ol' US of A might consider:

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
-Hume

"Never could an increase of comfort or security be a sufficient good to be bought at the price of liberty." - Hillaire Belloc

Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined."
-Patrick Henry

The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money.
-Alexis de Tocqueville

AND FINALLY, again from my boy, Patrick Henry ( would that we had many such as he today, MY LIFETIME FAVORITE:

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
-Patrick Henry


John in Boise, Liberty or death
 
Yes forumite(s),Orwellian in EVERY sense of the word ; "Draconian" as applies to the concept of "law". A sad note on "their" society as opposed to what "ours" is becoming.
KBR make(s) a good point (pun intended;)) regarding the concept of
the "iconoclastic" lawbenders/public
at large. Reeks of the "ghost" of Sen. Mack ( of late ;)) of Ill. ( ironically for those "windy city"
forumite(s)) who(m) got the so-called "Federal Switchblade Act"
"Bill" passed into "Law" in I believe 1957(?).) It's ALL "IMAGES"
associated with crime & NOT criminal(s) that are the target of
these repressive, Draconian type "laws". The good news is We can ALWAYS "rise up" and "overthrow" the "offender"( says so in the 1st Amendment of the Constituition ). A sad state of affair(s), I say.
mnblade, don't take this "damn yankee's" opin of Florida that hard,
Florida has some of the most sensible laws "on the books" as compared to "communist" Connecticut
from which I sadly hail. Was just making punditry on the concept of
"service" in Our State. That's all.
Question is : When Our "time" come(s), what are We going to do about it? "Lawbenders": I don't see
as being of much "help" as are the
"lobby" or "special interest" group(s)( don't get me wrong, gang, the AKTI does "yeoman" work) in the "lobby" field, but sadly, there's only so much they're capable of doing.

"Que diserat paceum, se para bellum"

( if one desires peace, then one should prepare for war.)

A Roman General


AET ;)


Footnote : EXCELLENT Patrick Henry
quotation in the FULLEST regard, Ichor! DAMN STRAIGHT TOO!!! I'd die for Our priciple know as The Constituition.

AET
 
They are talking about "addressing the culture of knife possession amongst young people." Do they mean that only way to culturaly posess a knife is to have it hidden in a safe with keys thrown away? If so -- I'm disssapointed with UK. Always thought it's government to have some "common sense".
 
I think that's quite an old campaign, like over 6 monthas old. I've been looking for posters around town to take home for a while but haven't seen any. Haven't heard about any searching going on either. The Law tend to hatch ideas like this that they implement very partially. As far as I know the law hasn't changed, they just decided to do a press release and put a few posters up, but I could be wrong.

Kallisti
 
I wasn't going to bite on this one, and I fear I'll be setting myself up as a whipping boy but here goes.
That campaign ran for one month, August of 2001. It was part of the Met's "Safer Streets" campaign, a high profile and partly political appeasement to the public to show that the Police were making some effort to tackle street crime. In actual fact the idea came from the US "Zero Tolerance" policing methods demonstrated in New York following a highly publicised exchange program between the two cities. It was a poster campaign pure and simple, the poor old bobbies on the beat did not have time to target specific laws in their day to day policing.
The knife laws in the uk haven't changed, this campaign was targeted at the public carry of unlawful knives by particular groups. These laws aren't too different from many other countries and at least one state in the US. You may carry ANY article with a blade if you have good reason or lawful authority, and non-locking folders under 3" are totally exempt anyway. Good reason for having a knife is open to sensible interpretation by firstly the officer that stops you, and if he is not satisfied, then the Court. The only point I would secede to is that self defense IS NOT a lawful reason to carry, but IS a lawful reason to use, so have your reasons ready.
I'm going to regret this...
 
This is ridiculous. I have lived most of my life in Soviet Union and no one could even think of owning a firearm. The knife laws were pretty strict too. The crime rate however was very high. The favourite tools of murder were: long nails (sharpened),hammers, chisels, screwdrivers (a guy in my school was stabbed about 20 times, once by each attacker, who were his classmates by the way). If there is a will, there is a way. A 10 minutes trip to a local hardware store can arm one as well as a medieval warrior. Canada, for example,keeps getting a tougher gun laws, but almost legalized marijuana few days ago. I think this is a part of a plan by the government to disarm population and turn us into a mindless zombies. A disarmed citizen with brains fried by drugs is easier to control.
 
Kallisti, Zardoz, thanks for your informative replies.

I did some thinking and realized how I've seen similar press release campaigns in Hong Kong. Usually none of the laws actually change, but certain laws become the flavour of the month. So we've got all these posters and TV commercials, but it all dies down quickly. The main purpose really is to inform the public of the existence of such laws and to make it seem like the government is doing something to combat crime. Americans might not be used to the idea of the former, hence the many doomsaying responses. :)

I think that the world is going to hell, but just not as quickly as it may seem.
 
Originally posted by waelwulfas
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We can still carry folders under 3"
Sigh. I guess the keyword here s "still". How long will it take to remove that too?

The police also have to have grounds for suspecting you have an unlawful weapon before they can search you.
According to them - "including tactics such as focused stop and search" Which to me means stopping anyone in the street and searching him/her...

Back there in 1983-84 this is exactly what militia was doing in USSR. They(russian LEOs) never had problems stopping anyone, that always was (and is) a case, but in those years it was especially active. I was in the school at that time and remember well those searches. In the middle of te lesson few militias plus some school official would enter the class, search all the guys for knives and cigarette.

BTW next thing that followed was stopping people in the streets and investigating why they were not at work. I am not kidding. Being on the street "without a good cause" during work hours could've been a trouble for you.

As of the firearms the law was 5 years in jail minimum. And the court procedure was a lot simpler in USSR... Except all that never stopped criminals from obtaining and using guns for the crime.
 
As a person "in the know";) you're a
shining example for the rest of us complacent "whaddya gonna do?" type(s). You've : BEEN THERE,DONE THAT and henceforth stand little in the way of contradiction. In America
there's talk of "suspending" Our Constituition, such as Abe Lincoln
did during the "Civil" War. I myself had a "run-in" with former Federal Judge, Director of Our FBI/CIA of late on the Yale University campus at an "open" debate, titled " Resolved : Ordered Liberty is the Key to a dangerous future. I told this flaming hypocrite about the oath(s) he took as a Judge & FBI ( I
WILL NOT VENTURE CIA!;)) director(s) to "..protect & uphold the Constituition of these United States..." and was duly asked to "leave" by the Yale Gendarmes. It's a sad "state" of "affairs" of late,
as the "lawbenders" are using "9/11"
as "licence" to render null & void
the very Liberty's they swore to "uphold & protect". As I previously
stated, however, the 1st Amendment Our Constituition
allows & protects the right(s) of the citizenry to "rise up" & "overthrow" the "offender". But I'd
doubt this will EVER occur (sadly) as Our citizenry is as "alarmist" as Our "leaders" and as "complacent" to boot. To quote the famous revolutionry heroe Patrick Henry :
"...as for me, give me LIBERTY, or give me DEATH!" And I "stand" on this point.

AET ;)
 
Ok, the situaton in Russia is even merrier now.
You can buy now pretty dangerous folders, Like BM Stryker, Spyderco Military, and even MT UT 6. They can even be carried consealed! BUT. People still prefer killing each other with hammers, axes and prybars. And handgun ban -- no self-respecting gangster have never paied any attention to it.
So fandorin ( ÏÞÅÎØ ÐÒÉÑÔÎÏ ×ÓÔÒÅÔÉÔØ ÚÄÅÓØ ÈÏÔØ É ÂÙ×ÛÅÇÏ, ÎÏ ÓÏÏÔÅÞÅÓÔ×ÅÎÎÉËÁ. ëÁË ÔÁÍ × ëÁÎÁÄÅ?) is right. There is a will -- there is a way. And no ban can do anything to it
 
Hey zardoz- no whip scars as yet :rolleyes:

I also try to keep out of these discusions. afew weeks ago I entered into some over on the political forum - never again I think some minds are so narrow I am suprised they do not leak out of those funy shaped joints in the skull (sorry cant remember the biological name for them)
 
Originally posted by bagman
those funy shaped joints in the skull (sorry cant remember the biological name for them)
Click to expand...

Do you mean the synarthrotic non-axial fibrous joints known as sutures? ;)


Trouble with lawmakers and enforcers everywhere - like most beaurocrats and managers - is the tendancy to make ever more restrictive and convoluted, non-sensical laws to keep themselves feeling self-important and justify their continued employment. Less is more!

Kallisti.
 
Thanks Kallisti

I will pretend that I am not a biologist by profession (poly seems like so long ago - especially when I catch 2 minutes of Top of the Pops ( I was rewinding a video I hasten to add) I feel very old all the music I saw in the coutdown was absolute shi*te.
 
I was in Wales working at Newport Wafer Fab 5 or 6 years ago, when if I'm not mistaken, a lot of this started. A teacher was brutally murdered near London a school when he tried to intervene in a street fight, he was knifed to death.

That was the beginnining of the end, an emergency ban was put in place until a law was permanately enacted.

It literally happened over night. :( :grumpy: :mad:
 
This is it. I decided that this is going to be the last thread, like this, that I'm going to read without doing something about it.:mad:

I finally joined AKTI so that instead of just complaining, like I usually do, I could put my money where my mouth is.

--The Raptor--
 
I guess it falls as much on the shoulders of my generation as any. Personally I will never sit complacently and watch hard-fought freedoms fall victim to rampant paranoia and shortsightedness. It is a potentially grim state of affairs to be sure, but not one which cannot be fixed by our people. :cool:
 
This thread was just pointed out to me as I usually stick to another forum.
The posters of which other people have never seen, wel I haven't either.
And there are somthings here I will probably regret saying also, so why do I do it, because this is a place for which members opinions are to be discussed in a rational and logical way.
I am appalled by the knife laws in this country my self possibly more so than most as the knife of prefernece is a Balisong, sometimes called a butterfly knife, These cannot be owned legally unless they have been passed on freely and bought before the ban which was sometime in the 80s.
I have several because I love them, well actually I have 8 and only one of them is legal as I bought one at an antique fair and got another free.
I enjoy manipulating my balisong and have done for thousands of hours, I could not survive without flipping something, forks, pens you will always see me spinning something, I am currently engaged in a project concerning the balisong which should be released hopefully before this time next year.
As a tool I use my knife every day to cut leather, and other things in work, I find it to be more fun than a folder, Also I would not spend the same money on a folder as I would a good balisong, any way that is not my point here.
The government needs to realise that knives are tools, ya know I saw in a chemist the other day that scissors cannot be sold to any one under 18, I just thought what the f**k.
Soon enough your going to need a license to buy any knife for cooking, it is ridiculous and something needs to change, Knife users of all kinds should get together and form a british version of the american AKTI,
Start doing something about it before it is too late, we are very close to that time now, I am considering living else where simply because of the laws here.
If any body else thinks this is a good idea let me know at
8thsinner@tiscali.co.uk
 
Originally posted by 8thsinner

The government needs to realise that knives are tools, ya know I saw in a chemist the other day that scissors cannot be sold to any one under 18, I just thought what the f**k.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, next thing would be razor blades would be rationed and they'll never be enough, so people go to the proles to get razor blades...
This BS is Orwellian in every sense, I don't see how the cops have enough evidence to make a reasonable search. I don't know much about Britian's laws, but Constitutions here over the pond says no unreasonable searchs and seizures. That means this BS doesn't fly here, or at least not supposed to.
I'm fairly aware the idea of getting personal information through the Internet, and even worse, there are a couple of European nations that does not allow adequate encryption programs to be used. I think France was one. There was also pressure from the government (I think it's the US) to pressure the people who write these encryption program to write a backdoor so that the government agencies can crack them so much faster.
These ideas are disgusting, and it's even more disgusting to see ordinary people who don't know any better thinking this is a good thing to do.
 
I work for one of the federal agencies being folded into the new DHS. I think it is going to be a big waste of money. And you want to talk Orwelian, this is definitely Orwelian. We are becoming nothing less than a police state. And that new Patriot Act legislation is riddled with stuff that encroaches on our civil liberties.

In my job, I'm not required to carry a firearm. I never have been real interested in getting a concealed carry permit. But, as our reaction to 9/11 continues to unfold, I'm more and more interested in exercising what freedoms I have left.

Recently I started carrying a knife everyday. I hadn't done that for several years. And know, I'm going to get my concealed carry permit.

I'm not doing these things because I feel especially threatened in my everyday interactions. I'm 31 years old, and I've never found myself in a situation where I wish I had a piece with me. My main motivation is to exercise my rights because now I'm appreciating what rights we have, and I don't want to lose them.

I think the most difficult part of this whole situation is that civil libertarians and constitutionalists are getting caught in the crossfire. You've got the bleeding heart liberals and their powerful media who like to use fear mongering tactics teaming up with rightwing, police driven, enforcement types that are getting legislation that allows them to do "sneak and peaks" and other activities that have no regard for our constitution and our constitutional rights. I don't see any favorable light at the end of the proverbial tunnel.

I recently went to some government training regarding fighting terrorist financing, and I'm not kidding when I tell you that one of the instructors said that we are gradually moving more and more to a police and security style of government similar to Britain. So, put that in your pipe and smoke it!:confused:
 
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