A "safer" London? (This will turn your stomach)

I'm glad I live In South Dakota :)

The crap some of you guys put up with were you live is unreal.
 
Originally posted by komondor
They're so clueless it is absurd. God, how I would hate to live in that festering crap hole of oppression.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your helpful and insightful addition to the discussion.

Roger Gregory
 
OK, here goes.

I'm a Brit, living in Britain, an ex soldier, married to a police officer & a knifemaker.

& I carry a 2 1/2" LOCKING knife, as a computer reseller, I open between 20 & 200 boxes a day & always need to know where my knife is! Consequentially, I have my knife in my back pocket at all times. If I change trousers (pants to you) I swap my lighter (front left) & my knife (back right) automatically.

I don't "whip it out" in pubs (bars to you)

I haven't been in trouble with the police (cops to you) for a looooong time, & consider myself an upstanding citizen.

BUT I'LL BE DAMNED if I'll risk ten valuable minutes a day wondering where my knife is before I can configure a server, or add memory to fifty desktops because some dimwit of a bunch of polititions can't see that, in spite of banning handguns over the calibre .22, most criminals can "get their hands on" a handgun of any calibre. & banning knives over 3", just means that a woman walking alone at night knows that the guy waving a 7" dagger in her face is a criminal. Well DUH!


BTW pepper spray, & "mace" is also illegal (even a pepper cellar in a womans handbag "for defence" is considered against the law:eek: )


Well, what price freedom?
 
In a home a knife can be considered a tool, mainly because it is one. Once on the street (in the UK), it becomes a potential weapon in the eyes of the law. But so does a screwdriver or yes even a pair of scissors.

Any hard or sharp object with no other use in it's then current surroundings, can it seems, be considered a weapon. So yeah you can carry a 4" long fixed blade but only if you're out hunting or doing some wilderness survival exercise or something. A cue ball isn't something you really want to get caught with either unless there's a pool talbe nearby.

I've never had any problems with the police regarding knives but I do carry a locking blade at all times (two of them actually as I've got a leatherman wave that I never leave the house without except to go running). I use my knife or knives (depending on what I've got with me) a number of times during the day and I would no more like to be without a knife than without my shoes.

I could be in a crowded shopping centre where the "law" would say I have no genuine reason to carry a knife. However, I do as I'm sure do we all ocassionally, find myself in such a place and needing a knife. Infact a number of times I have been with people I know (at work or elsewhere) and they have needed a knife, so I have brought mine out to let them use it only to see the shocked look on their face, as if to say "you carry that around with you?!!!". I could understand if it were a big Rambo-sized knife or something that would scare the shite out of Crocodile Dundee, but it never is. Still they're concerned and I can't understand why, or why *they* don't carry one themselves.

Half of the worry people have about knives is that they don't seem to understand that some of us who are practical people, find them useful. Instead they use their teeth to take a tag off a new purchase or go into a nearby shop to borrow a pair of scissors to open a package.

The other part of the problem is that with the increase in violent crimes (I would guess there's an increase, otherwise it's just being reported more than it used to be) the younger generation are scared, though most won't admit it (cos they're all so hard. Yeah right!). In the UK young males between I think 14 and 22 or something like that are the group most likely to be mugged etc... I'm in that group and I'm a bit concerned, I don't go out late particularly and I don't go to areas that are known to be dangerous (these are the reason why that group is in most danger, they go where sensible people wouldn't because they think they *should* be able to handle it) but I know the dangers are out there. Because others in this age group do go to these places and take these chances, some feel they should carry protection. I once knew a guy at college that came in one day with a hammer in his bag claiming that some bad sh*t was going to go down. Some carry these potentially "offensive weapons" to hurt or threaten others, but most carry them because they are scared of the first type of people.

The UK is suffering from an increase in the number of firearms, mainly handguns, and mainly in the hands of people with bad intentions. Obviously due to this combined ith the above, the government are rather concerned, as am I and many others no doubt. Having said this though to target people for simply carrying a knife, and putting then in prison for 2 years is rediculous. There has to be some way to differentiate between those who are likely to be carrying knives as weapons, and those who use them as tools.

I rarely carry a knife with the thought of SD in mind because if the guy is quick enough I won't have time to get to it and if he's not quick enough then I could more than likely put him on his arse without needing a weapon. And more to the point I would much rather run away or throw a brick because it means I'm less likely to get hurt myself. However I do worry about being searched (for whatever reason) and found with a knife to which my only explanation for carrying it would be, "well I never know when I'm gonna need it", but I never do know.
 
I think it was mentioned above somewhere, that they cannot actually search you without good reason to believe you are carrying a weapon or illegal substance, if they search you anyway any thing happening as a result of that can be reversed due to a technical error on there part, At least thats is what I understand of the law.
 
8thsinner,

no doubt what you said about searching is true, but what you consider reasonable grounds and what the police consider reasonable grounds for a search may be two very different things. Although it's most likely that anyone who had no bad intentions with a knife is unlikely to be doing the kind of thing that could get them searched I've got a story for you that nearly got some guy into deep doo doo.

My father is a majestrate and whilst on the bench one day a case involving a knife came before him. A man had been stopped for a dodgy tail light or something and the police obviously didn't like the look of him so they searched his car. In the glovebox they found a 3" fix blade. The other two guys on the bench with my dad wanted to throw the book at this man, apparently because of his race. My dad sorted it out, he carries something similar in his car incase of emergencies etc.. and basically told these other majestrates not to be racist or he would report them. The guy got let off, but if it's even possible to be sentenced for carry a knife in the glovebox of your car, well it makes you wonder doesn't it.

I'd like to point out that I am applying for my local police force and whilst I don't agree with all the laws of the country I am willing to uphold and enforce them. However, should I be appointed, where the posession of knives is concerned I may take a slightly different view than other officers in cases where my own judgment may be used.
 
Yeah, I am not sure if it is the same here or not but somewhere you can carry a blade of that size in the boot of your car for such emergencies, This and hold virtually any knife within the boundary of your own home without breaking the law, Not too sure if it applies in this country or not, I have no doubt that if you where sitting sharpening an 18" bowie in your front garden and a cop drives past he is going to stop and do something about it,Wether he has the right to or not I do not know,
And yes you are right about the reasonable cause, things like this are always left unspecified so that the law can work to there advantage if they forgot about a certain part of it at the time.
I am not a criminal and I respect the law in every other way but there rules on knives are a joke,
There should be something written into the law that concerns the law abiding citizen, or a reasonable age limit or something, Regarding the owner ship of knives as tools.
Personally in my job if I did not have a knife so quick to hand I would spend possibly an extra hour or two a day just catching up with the time lost.
I would never use my knife in a self defence way cause I would probably do more harm to myself, I would run,
I do not know which country this applies to but it is possible to find the information of blade forums somewhere.
Since the introduction of a new law regarding carryign weapons (these included hand guns, and knives of a certain size) street muggings and rape levels fell, Partly because the criminal could never be too sure if the other person would have a gun or not, if so they would risk there own life.
Before this law they where a lot more likely to come across a weaker person, or someone unable to defend themselves.

I doubt that introducing this law in this country would have any positive effect but something clearly needs to be done to bring crime levels down and as far as I am aware they are only getting worse.And that In my opinion is not because of people like me carrying a knife to work every day.


PLease do not take this as somesort of personal insult, I know you do not make the law, but I think people like you should try and work with people higher up and say that if something works to cut crime do it, don't pick on the innocent law abiding people just to make it look like there doing something.

I am sorry if this post offends any one but it annoys me to see things like this happen.
 
What sickens me most is that self defence is not considered a reasonable excuse! In order to survive we must eat, breath and protect ourselves from predators. Every life form has those rights apart from humans in this little repressed kingdom et al.

:mad: x 1,000,000!
 
Matt: I personally think that violent crimes are reported more than anything else because that gets sales for the media.
Before the recent rash of violent crime, people think that the country is getting worse and worse, but when the statistics is compared, violent crime have been dropping steadily in Canada. But frankly, because of the recent well publicized reports of murders, all of this doesn't quite matter now, even for myself.
Wouldn't you consider it strange that the more and more Britains laws try to remove guns and knives from their citizens, their criminals can seem to get their hands on these illegal items easier and easier? They don't fear the police, because most of the time the police don't get their in time; even they double their proactive duty (I've seen this in Criminology class). However, I think any criminal would have some fear when they're staring down a shotgun barrel when a homeowner is protecting himself and his property from criminals.
 
What I find so stupid is that you can go into gadget shops and army shops near to where I live and walk out with 8-10" survival knives, katanas, and extendable batons etc... Not good quality stuff but it's enough to hurt someone really badly.

In one way I say if people want to collect and own big knives and swords then let them. On the other hand ofcourse you have a problem is that along as good honest people can collect basically any type of blades they want, there will always be a criminal element willing to abuse this privilege. By the way, we are allowed to own balisongs and switchblades etc..(you can't buy, sell or import them though), we just can't take them off our own property.

I think that what calyth said is entirely correct, the stricter the laws become, the greater the criminal's desire to get such "offensive weapons" and they always find a way. Heroin is illegal and that's here so what makes the government think banning knives is really going to accomplish anything?

By making it illegal to carry a knife that could be used for SD you only promote the advantage for a mugger to carry one themself. They seek the upper hand and to have an advantage, so okay why not give them one. It'd be interesting to see what effect giving the population weapons would actually have on the rate of violent crime. I mean getting into a scrap at a nightclub is something alot of guys are willing to do, some even seek it, but if they new the other guy was armed I wonder if they would still be tempted, given the chance of injury or death, and dealing with the police afterwards with the possiblity of a life sentence.

Oh, and did you guys over the pond hear about the knife amnesty we had over here a few years back? Basically, every police station had a bin of some sort which people could use to dispose of their knives. It was stated that no-one would be charged with any crime of posession upon arriving at a station to dispose of a knife. Thousands of blades were turned in however I suspect most of these belonged to 20-something year old men who had these knives as teenagers for protection, didn't need them anymore and didn't want anyone bad to get their hands on them. It's unlikely that any criminals came to hand in their knives. Still it got them off the streets (most were quite large fixed blades from what I saw on the news).
 
Yeah we had another amnesity thing a few months ago lasted for a month I think not one blade in the UK was dispossed of,
The thing is if they saw you carrying a big blade and stopped you and asked why,
You could probably say you where going to hand it in, They may or may not believe you, who is to know, The problem is a criminla could say that and they could believe him and he could walk away scot free.
 
Well if it were me who had stopped them I would say, "ah well if you're handing it in anyway I might aswell take it for you and save you the trip, if not I'll accompany you to the station." I'm sure this is the response most would get, but it's very unlikely a criminal or deviant with a knife would let the police come that close to them to ask quesions.

I'm not sure how they disposed of all those knives that were handed in anyway, different steels and all that, how would they get rid of them? I think they probably either melted them into a lump and buried them or sold them to, or in, another country.
 
Originally posted by Matt Langley


I'm not sure how they disposed of all those knives that were handed in anyway, different steels and all that, how would they get rid of them? I think they probably either melted them into a lump and buried them or sold them to, or in, another country.
Click to expand...

They should have put them on eBay :D
 
Originally posted by Matt Langley
What I find so stupid is that you can go into gadget shops and army shops near to where I live and walk out with 8-10" survival knives, katanas, and extendable batons etc...
Click to expand...

You can also go into the supermarket and walk out with several 12" kitchen knives, or a screwdriver set. Just because criminals can buy things easily doesn't mean they should be banned.

Oh, and did you guys over the pond hear about the knife amnesty we had over here a few years back? Basically, every police station had a bin of some sort which people could use to dispose of their knives. It was stated that no-one would be charged with any crime of posession upon arriving at a station to dispose of a knife...
Click to expand...

When the amnesty of 1996 went on they fingerprinted the knives. Not exactly an incentive for people to hand in cutlery. They even stated that it was anonymous.
 
I think there is an enormous point that has not been discussed, and the reasoning behind all of the evils described here. The economy. money=human comfort. or so YOU think! The idea of money is actually a good thing. I do my work and recieve "credits." The harder/level of work, the more credit I recieve. THOSE credits can be used to "trade" for the outcome of anothers work (like knives or human telephone assiscance), who recieve "Credits" from you as a trade for their service. They then take these "credits" and trade them to the guy who's service is food. and on and on and on... THIS is a good system.

THE PROBLEM is that the GOVERNMENT is in control of this system.

money=human comfort

If you don't play by the bull$hit rules you don't get comfort. Well... comfort ALLOWED in the lines OF the rules, that is.

Joe's Cola company can pay Bob's Grocery NOT to carry Depsi Cola, he can also pay Mr. Bush to make Depsi Cola illegal. Sound absurd? Well... Depsi Cola IS bad for you... and IT IS a drug! Look how many idiots have fallen for the reasoning of current marijuana laws.

What I'm saying is that as long as there are people with $$$ who can benefit from laws, there will be MUCH oppression.
 
Mr. Bombastic,

What I meant by my statement with regard to what can be bought in gadget shops etc.. was that obviously the quality of these items is quite poor, no collector would want a cheap Katana and no knife user would want a cheap knife because cheap in this case translates to poorly made and of poor quality. The only reason these items sell enough to be worth the shops stocking them must be that people view them as weapons and purchase them with this in mind, which is why I mentioned extendable batons along with the rest.

Maybe what should be required is a license to sell knives over a certain size and type, and that other "offensive weapons" such as the extendable batons which I'm pretty sure aren't legal to carry anyway, are not allowed to be sold at all. This way if someone such as you or me wants a knife of a certain type for legitimate reasons, we may go to a licensed dealer of such items who are less likely to sell the cheap rubbish that only someone wishing to purchase a "weapon" would buy.

The result would be fewer cheap (affordable in a mugger's mind) and inappropriately sized knives on sale, and the point of sale would hopefully be from someone who has a healthy respect for these tools and knows what is appropriate use of them. I myself like to buy from BKCG.co.uk who don't, for example sell to those under 18. This can be ensured by the use of credit and debit cards.

Bottom line, if someone wants to get a potential "offensive weapon" you can get them anywhere, but what that should not have an effect on is the law abiding citizens who have good reason to carry knives.

There are no easy solutions to the problems of the world, but often I find that atleast in theory there are better options out there than the ones the politicians choose to employ.


archieblue, in general I can see that what you are saying is correct, but could you explain how this relates to our knife laws? It's not that I don't believe you're right, I'm just not sure I understand who would use money to prevent the public carry knives.
 
well... money is what most of us idiots see as comfort. I was just displaying the connection between the two and most laws pertaining to "non-violent" "crimes." Money and the economy as under Govt. control are a charade. SO... does MONEY control law, or does COMFORT control law? AND are you willing to give up some of that comfort to go out of your way to display your views? Are you willing to risk status of a calm person with no problems to get upset about this opression. Are you willing to argue with your Boss' views and so on and so on...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top