A Short Rant About Zero Tolerance

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Bugout Bill

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THIS IS NOT A ZT HATE THREAD!!!

I have nothing to gain by bashing ZT or Kai in general, nor is that my goal. I am not writing this as a means of gaining attention or infamy. Rather, this is simply my opinion about the direction the company seems to be taking and the direction that I wish they would take. I would be interested to hear if anyone else has similar feelings or differing opinions.

Compared to some other members of the forum, I am a relative newcomer to the world of knives. I have only been a knife enthusiast for about 3 years now, but in this time I have had the opportunity to try knives from a number of manufacturers, ranging from Spyderco to Benchmade. About a year ago, I noticed a used ZT200 for sale at a local military surplus store. It took me awhile, but I finally pulled the trigger on that wonderful grenade-like knife. I have put that knife through hell, but it has served me very well. That knife also gave me an appreciation for overbuilt tactical knives, and I soon began salivating over ZT’s line up. Unfortunately, other knives piqued my interest, and I never got around to acquiring another ZT. My fascination in their knives never wavered.
This year, however, I began to notice a trend in their products line up. They seemed that they were starting to focus more on very high end folders, rather than the tactical folders that I was used to. They began to eliminate some other products, like autos and fixed blades, as well. While I have no problem with high end folders, some of these knives seemed to be designed with the collector in mind, rather than the user. The ZT 888, 801, 777, and 454 are collector’s knives, not hard use knives. Yes, some people may use these knives (and kudos to them), but the majority will sit unused in display cases. They will hold some value, but they won’t be nearly as valuable as customs. They don’t have extreme cutting geometries like gentleman’s knives should, nor are they as suited for heavy work. These knives have their place, much like Benchmade’s Gold Class, but they shouldn’t displace other, more proven products.

I think I have complained enough, but this is an outline of what I wish ZT would do:
• Get rid of the art knives. Either create a Gold Class equivalent in ZT or sell them as Kershaws, but go back to producing tactical knives.
• Stop offering so many finishes for the same knife, stick to either stonewash or DLC.
• Don’t overcomplicate blade steel. Why the hell does KAI do composite blades? I’d rather pay a little extra for a full S110V or ZDP-189 blade that can be run to full hardness than for a composite.
• Bring back older offerings, like the MUDD or autos.
• Bring in new designers. As much as I like Rick Hinderer, RJ Martin, and Ken Onion’s work, I wouldn’t mind seeing some new designers. More Strider collaborations? Maybe bring in Ernest Emerson? Or Bob Terzuola? (a man can dream of mine)

Anyway, rant over. Thanks for letting me waste your time, input would be appreciated.
 
Before the Kershaw/ZT sub-forum was closed, it doesn't seem like you spent a whole lot of time there as many of your issues have been addressed in threads by mods.
 
Here is a revolutionary idea. If you're not a fan of their products, buy something else.
 
CJZ said:
Here is a revolutionary idea. If you're not a fan of their products, buy something else.
Click to expand...

I am a fan of most of their products. I can't really buy another Rick Hinderer designed ti-framelock from another company, other than his.
 
CJZ said:
Here is a revolutionary idea. If you're not a fan of their products, buy something else.
Click to expand...

I think its just the opposite of that, he is a ZT enthusiast who liked their original offerings, no nonsense knives with "any color you want as long as its black".

I kind of feel the same concerning the composite blades. Gimme a one piece blade. And the MUDD was a super cool knife. I also wish they would give us some Autos to compete with Microtech. But, I'm not in charge.
 
TriviaMonster said:
I think its just the opposite of that, he is a ZT enthusiast who liked their original offerings, no nonsense knives with "any color you want as long as its black".

I kind of feel the same concerning the composite blades. Gimme a one piece blade. And the MUDD was a super cool knife. I also wish they would give us some Autos to compete with Microtech. But, I'm not in charge.
Click to expand...

I almost feel that it was unfair to pick on them regarding autos. I believe that they quite offering them due to the legal hassle of producing them. It would be nice to see them come back though.
 
That's why I'm sticking with my ZT200 and my ZT301. None of their newer offerings interest me. Well, maybe the ZT750.
 
Their newer knives are suited for heavy work just fine, have you held any of these "collector" models? The ones released are just as rock solid as earlier models and built like tanks. The new 777 m390 is less expensive than many mid techs meant for use. Look at hinderer knives, people buy and use the heck out of them at double what the m390 is selling for. Plenty of these collector knives will be used. First thing I did when my 0560 cbcf came was reprofile the edge, that really hurts collector value but to me it's a user. I'm not even going to address your bullet points because as pointed out earlier they have all been beat to death with valid explanations. They still make those early models if that is what you like.
 
Most of the "art" knives are LE. So once they're produced, they're done. So you might be seeing new hard use ZT's in the future.

And let me assure you, once I get my DLC M390, I'm going to use the hell out of it.
 
I stopped buying ZTs when I got the black 550. So far, what's left in my ZT lineup are the 0400, 0200, 550, and 560. I have zero interest in any of the new stuff.
 
I actually love the variety of the new additions to the lineup. Though I also would love to see some old models come back (would love to have a new MUDD to go with the user that I have), I understand that models come and go because of demand, manufacturing difficulties, etc. It happens with all of the big knife companies (and smaller ones too). If I could afford it, I would have way more ZT's than I already do (13 so far)...
 
Bugout Bill said:
THIS IS NOT A ZT HATE THREAD!!!

I have nothing to gain by bashing ZT or Kai in general, nor is that my goal. I am not writing this as a means of gaining attention or infamy. Rather, this is simply my opinion about the direction the company seems to be taking and the direction that I wish they would take. I would be interested to hear if anyone else has similar feelings or differing opinions.

Compared to some other members of the forum, I am a relative newcomer to the world of knives. I have only been a knife enthusiast for about 3 years now, but in this time I have had the opportunity to try knives from a number of manufacturers, ranging from Spyderco to Benchmade. About a year ago, I noticed a used ZT200 for sale at a local military surplus store. It took me awhile, but I finally pulled the trigger on that wonderful grenade-like knife. I have put that knife through hell, but it has served me very well. That knife also gave me an appreciation for overbuilt tactical knives, and I soon began salivating over ZT’s line up. Unfortunately, other knives piqued my interest, and I never got around to acquiring another ZT. My fascination in their knives never wavered.
This year, however, I began to notice a trend in their products line up. They seemed that they were starting to focus more on very high end folders, rather than the tactical folders that I was used to. They began to eliminate some other products, like autos and fixed blades, as well. While I have no problem with high end folders, some of these knives seemed to be designed with the collector in mind, rather than the user. The ZT 888, 801, 777, and 454 are collector’s knives, not hard use knives. Yes, some people may use these knives (and kudos to them), but the majority will sit unused in display cases. They will hold some value, but they won’t be nearly as valuable as customs. They don’t have extreme cutting geometries like gentleman’s knives should, nor are they as suited for heavy work. These knives have their place, much like Benchmade’s Gold Class, but they shouldn’t displace other, more proven products.

I think I have complained enough, but this is an outline of what I wish ZT would do:
• Get rid of the art knives. Either create a Gold Class equivalent in ZT or sell them as Kershaws, but go back to producing tactical knives.
• Stop offering so many finishes for the same knife, stick to either stonewash or DLC.
• Don’t overcomplicate blade steel. Why the hell does KAI do composite blades? I’d rather pay a little extra for a full S110V or ZDP-189 blade that can be run to full hardness than for a composite.
• Bring back older offerings, like the MUDD or autos.
• Bring in new designers. As much as I like Rick Hinderer, RJ Martin, and Ken Onion’s work, I wouldn’t mind seeing some new designers. More Strider collaborations? Maybe bring in Ernest Emerson? Or Bob Terzuola? (a man can dream of mine)

Anyway, rant over. Thanks for letting me waste your time, input would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input.
 
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Like DBag posted. The fancy ones you dislike are all Limited Editions. LE's are suppose to be fancy.

The 0200 is still here...so is the 0550, 0560 and the 0566 is on its way. If you want a no nonsense tank, a blade made with a solid hunk of M390 in an 0350 will be available in the very near future at KW. The new 0770 doesn't look to be a slouch in the tough department either AND you can have it in carbon fiber if you want.

I do agree more collaborations would be cool. I don't think KAI has let us down in that department so far. I'm sure more of them are coming. Not sure who they will be but I'm sure we will be happy with them.
*cough* Jakub Wieczorkiewicz please *cough*
 
I would love a 777 to beat the shit oout of......... Id say all of their knives are usable. I use the hell out of a Sebenza and SnG and have beaten on the 0560
 
OP I kinda get what you're saying. Sig Sauer kinda did the same thing, tons of new variations, models and colors etc. it was dizzying. The big difference is that where Sig let quality slip and cheapen the brand I haven't found that with ZT. Sure they have a lot of new offerings, companies have to grow and expand to new markets but they are still putting out outstanding robust, hard working knives. Give one a try, you don't have to give up your 0300, I know I didn't, you might just be pleasantly surprised.
 
Different strokes, they're doing a good job of expanding their brand.

Really, only their LEs interest me now.
 
I recently acquired an 801! I use the shit out of it at work, & when I go camping, in the garden ect. I would consider this to be a good example of a hard use folder. purely in design & materials used, you cant beat it! (yes you can!)
@ KAI; Dont change anything!

Regards Graeme
 
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