A swedish perspective on scandi grind

[J. Doyle]

They excell at wood processing beacause you can smash a Mora knife with a hammer with full power, without feeling bad. You use it and abuse it untill it breaks. Then you buy a new one. Its their purpose. If people would use their EDC lika i use a Mora they will have nightmares. Its a grind that is very easy to produce, gives great sharpness and stand alot of abuse without breaking. You use them for tasks that damage knifes, then you buy a new one.

I think that is why most people like myself in Sweden are having trouble motivate a EDC. We are raised with cheap Moras that we use for everything. If it breaks you just by a new one. A EDC for 60$, i just dont know what i should use that knife for when i can break 6 Moras for the same cost. ( I have EDC, but thats because im a idiot, like all knife entusiasts).

Best, most honest and most believable explanation I've ever read.

 

[Gotish]

I really appreciate the cultural perspective here. I’d long suspected the scandi grind wasn’t preferred for its performance, even in Scandinavian countries.

Well you have to remember that knives made in US is more expansive here. So Buck 110 is not consider as good knife because it is more expensive then in US. Performance is always measured against cost.

 

[Gotish]

Best, most honest and most believable explanation I've ever read.

It is a working knife. Every profesional plumber, carpenter, electricians, has one. You smack it with a hammer, you scrape paint from metal, you open metal cans with it, you use it as a drill to make holes, you use it for bending things och just scraping. We even use them for mixing paint. All knifes cut better if you apply force to it. I use moras to open metal food cans in the wild. I put the point at the top of the can and smack the hammer on it, then i bend the can open. I would never do that with a EDC. Comparing a Mora to a EDC for me, is like comparing a screwdriver with a hammer. It is just two different tools.

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

I still can't figure out why scandi grinds 'excel at wood processing' or what exactly 'wood processing' even means.

I think people just parrot things they've heard repeatedly without thinking about it.

If a scandi blade 'flies through wood' then the exact same blade with a full flat grind would fly through even better.

They make for excellent batoning due to wedge shape with the full thickness flats. In this way they are also hold up well to lateral forces.

I'm not sure what mechanism is at play for feathersticking, but my scandivexes do a much better job of it then full flat grinds. The only competing grind in this area are the Fallknivens OP mentioned.

They also take off large chunks of wood when carving or removing stock.

 

[EngrSorenson]

I still can't figure out why scandi grinds 'excel at wood processing' or what exactly 'wood processing' even means.

I think people just parrot things they've heard repeatedly without thinking about it.

If a scandi blade 'flies through wood' then the exact same blade with a full flat grind would fly through even better.

My experience… and I carve a lot of wood… but my experience has been scandies are easier for making feather sticks and wood carving, due to the bevels preventing accidentally deep cuts. Like a hand plane, almost. Higher performance grinds tend to sink deeper if you’re not careful,

 

[EngrSorenson]

Well you have to remember that knives made in US is more expansive here. So Buck 110 is not consider as good knife because it is more expensive then in US. Performance is always measured against cost.

I have several Moras and I love them because I use them without concern for their well being. I also happen to like the designs and feel of the blades, so much like the opinions there, an inexpensive knives can balance out a lot for me.

And honestly, they’re not bad knives. Sure, a more desirable knife could be found, but I could make due with a mora for the rest of my days and be happy.

What I liked about your perspective was that it’s correcting the myth most of us have of nations of Scandinavians glowing about that particular grind.

 

[J. Doyle]

Thanks for the reply. I'll try addressing this in parts.

They make for excellent batoning due to wedge shape with the full thickness flats. In this way they are also hold up well to lateral forces.

In theory though, then a thicker spine, full flat is even better then. So it's still not as good as full flat. But we're well off into the (weeds) splitting maul territory now.

I'm not sure what mechanism is at play for feathersticking, but my scandivexes do a much better job of it then full flat grinds. The only competing grind in this area are the Fallknivens OP mentioned.

I'm not sure why that would be either. The same blade in full flat would be a thinner overall grind.

They also take off large chunks of wood when carving or removing stock.

Any other blade could do the same with better efficiency.

But I think EngrSorenson touches on this above:

 

[J. Doyle]

My experience… and I carve a lot of wood… but my experience has been scandies are easier for making feather sticks and wood carving, due to the bevels preventing accidentally deep cuts. Like a hand plane, almost. Higher performance grinds tend to sink deeper if you’re not careful,

Thanks for the response. I think you're touching on a point here. We tend to think of "better" as less drag, more efficiency.......usually.

In essence, it isn't that the scandi is better, in the above sense, but actually worse, but the result is more desirable in that instance.

 

[MolokaiRider]

I have many scadi-ground knives, and enjoy them all.

However, those with thick stock and shallow grinds don't seem to cut very well on anything unless you want to hog off large amounts of deep cuts or baton.

I use them the least, and get more use from thinner blades with taller grinds.

It's nice to have options though.

 

[lambertiana]

One of my pet peeves is watching youtubers "review" their brand new scandi knife and comment on it not being a true scandi because it has a microbevel. It's a weird and incorrect factoid that everyone just loves to repeat. Outside of dedicated wood carving knives meant for soft woods, I've never had a "true" scandi grind not roll.

Someone needs to tell Mora that their knives aren’t Scandi. Every Mora that I have came from the factory with a microbevel. Likewise the Wood Jewel and Erapuu knives that I have, both of which have Lauri blades.

 

[EngrSorenson]

Someone needs to tell Mora that their knives aren’t Scandi. Every Mora that I have came from the factory with a microbevel. Likewise the Wood Jewel and Erapuu knives that I have, both of which have Lauri blades.

Ah, but the Finnish knives don’t claim to sport a Scandi grind. It’s much more akin to a saber grind, and as such it can’t support a true “zero grind”.

I have found that sharpening moras and resetting the bevel to be slightly steeper on the carbon models really knocks out the edge stability issues, but I’m not sure I’m sold that scandi grinds were intended to be truly zero ground”, or if that’s an idea some bustcrafter had.

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

Ah, but the Finnish knives don’t claim to sport a Scandi grind. It’s much more akin to a saber grind, and as such it can’t support a true “zero grind”.

I have found that sharpening moras and resetting the bevel to be slightly steeper on the carbon models really knocks out the edge stability issues, but I’m not sure I’m sold that scandi grinds were intended to be truly zero ground”, or if that’s an idea some bustcrafter had.

I think he was joking because they all come with micro bevels (outside of moras carving knives which are indeed zeroed) and "true" scandis come microbeveled even from scandinavian countries.

You thicken your moras? Greta is Scandinavian too ya know...

 

[ferider]

I prefer Danish knives anyways.

:
:

Just kidding. Carry on.

 

[A.L.]

From Finnish perspective - when I was younger puukko knives where kind of "gold standard" by old beards because whittling (such as making feather sticks) was religious sacrament for woodsmen.
When people discussed American knives they often wondered things like "I wonder how that makes feathers" or "I wonder how that handle feels". Less of that today perhaps due the uprising of booshcraft and survival things.
Much of he puukko, scandi knives and grinds are heritage and the way things always have been. It goes deep to our culture and habits that would be hard to explain.

 

[Mikel_24]

Im a native suede. I have over 100 days/year in the wilderness using knifes for hunting, fishing, bushcraft and general use.

Great! Lovely to see your perspective on the different brands, grinds and pricing! I am from Spain and I own two moras and three Falknivents (F1, S1 and U2).

I always assumed that a scandi grind would be hard to sharpen because of the micro-bevel. Am i wrong?

My feeling is that they are hard to sharpen because you need to remove material from the whole ground area to achieve the perfect appex without creating a micro bevel. If neglected for a long time, this could be a tedious and time consuming process. My experience with MORA is that the steel is soft enough that a coarse or Xcoarse DMT stone helps a lot.

Mikel

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

From Finnish perspective - when I was younger puukko knives where kind of "gold standard" by old beards because whittling (such as making feather sticks) was religious sacrament for woodsmen.
When people discussed American knives they often wondered things like "I wonder how that makes feathers" or "I wonder how that handle feels". Less of that today perhaps due the uprising of booshcraft and survival things.
Much of he puukko, scandi knives and grinds are heritage and the way things always have been. It goes deep to our culture and habits that would be hard to explain.

They just cut really well, and they do it out of the box. A lot of factory knives don't. A new mora/ahti/etc will outcut so many other brands (tops, cold steel, condor, you name it).

J. Doyle knows his stuff, but I think he's mentally comparing custom grinds to factory scandis.

My ahti's have cut wood better than any flat grind I've ever owned including customs. Mediums outside of wood probably not.

 

[Alberta Ed]

My one true Scandi knife, a 1070 blade by Ivan Campos, is the sharpest knife I own. It's a high saber grind with no secondary bevel at all. Traditional puukkos are the same, no secondary bevel, from my understanding. Mora knives and similar Hultafors are made in Sweden but they do not have Scandi grinds. Roselli's Carpenter Knife with a convex edge comes pretty close to traditional puukkos.

 

[oldmanwilly]

My experience… and I carve a lot of wood… but my experience has been scandies are easier for making feather sticks and wood carving, due to the bevels preventing accidentally deep cuts. Like a hand plane, almost. Higher performance grinds tend to sink deeper if you’re not careful,

Thanks for the response. I think you're touching on a point here. We tend to think of "better" as less drag, more efficiency.......usually.

In essence, it isn't that the scandi is better, in the above sense, but actually worse, but the result is more desirable in that instance.

Heh, task failed successfully?

EngrSorenson hit on the only point I can think of why a "scandi" grind has an advantage for carving and whittling. I would wager that it has something to do with the sharp bevel where the flat portion of the blade transitions into the final bevel, leading to the edge. I suspect that, when whittling, having that hard corner on the bevel acts like a fulcrum, giving the user some leverage to help keep the edge from digging too deeply into the wood while carving. Whereas, in my experience, a flat ground blade that does not have that sharp bevel transition will tend to continue to bite more deeply into the wood, thereby making it more difficult to consistently shave off slivers. Of course, I could be completely wrong

I too enjoy using my scandi ground knives (Mora, Kellam, Cold Steel) to whittle and carve and some occasional rough work, but I otherwise avoid anything scandi-like for slicing tasks.

Edit to add: my Mora Kansbol is an excellent slicer, but I have positively no clue how sacrilegious the high-sabre/scandi compound grind is in the scheme of things.

 

[Gotish]

About the micro bevel it is such a common discussed subject that mora has a written response on their webpage: https://morakniv.se/en/morakniv-stories-en/edge-angles/

Following text is a copy paste from the link above. I dont have the knife skill to tell if their opinion is correct but it is from their company web page. The last part is pretty important if you are discussing micre bevels with someone who have never looked on a Mora.

I get many questions regarding edge angles in various forums and therefore thought I could tell you why we have the edge angles that we have. A guideline for our Craft and Outdoor knives are that most knives up to 2.5 mm blade thickness usually have a total edge angle of 23 degrees, about 11.5 degrees per side.

Blades thicker than 2.5 mm usually have a total edge angle of 27 degrees, about 13.5 degrees per side. Most of our knives have the True Scandi Grind that includes the typical micro bevel of a total edge angle of about 35-45° which is about 0.05 – 0.5 mm high to make the edge less fragile and with better edge retention.

Looking at knives such as a Companion or Mora 2000 with the bare eye, we cannot see the micro bevel line as the polishing rounded off all the lines. If you look at our knives with a 90-degree sharp angle for fire starters, the micro bevel line appears all the more clearly.

We also have a knife edge called Scandi Grind Zero that has no micro bevel and therefore has a slightly more aggressive and friendly edge to woodcarving, but in need of more maintenance. Scandi Grind Zero can be found on our woodcarving knives 106, 120 and 122 as well as the stainless steel knives Pro Precision and Carving Basic.

If we look at the food industry knives, the total edge angles are everything from about 25 degrees all the way up to 45 degrees, depending what the knife is intended to be used for.

I would also like to take the opportunity to mention that I believe that everyone is free to choose how they best adapt the edge of their knives to what best suits the intended tasks. The edge our knives have from the factory in Mora is what it is meant to suit most areas of use, but we fully understand that there are other times when other edge angles will suit better. For those of you who sharpen your knives yourself, I would like to remind you of the need to strop the edges after sharpening so that all remaining burrs are removed. Compare the leather belt-stropping process to what barbers used to do before shaving. If you do not have a belt strop, you can use the back of your leather belt, preferably in combination with a little polishing paste such as Autosol chrom gloss, that often can be found in well-stocked stores. Finally, I ask you not to confuse the typical American 1-3 mm high secondary bevel with the Morakniv micro bevel that has widely differing areas of use and characteristics.

 

[Gotish]

I have several Moras and I love them because I use them without concern for their well being. I also happen to like the designs and feel of the blades, so much like the opinions there, an inexpensive knives can balance out a lot for me.

And honestly, they’re not bad knives. Sure, a more desirable knife could be found, but I could make due with a mora for the rest of my days and be happy.

What I liked about your perspective was that it’s correcting the myth most of us have of nations of Scandinavians glowing about that particular grind.

They are very good knifes. They have completly dominated the market of building industry in skandinavia for 100 years and everyone that owns a toolbox has a mora in it. The problem is that knife lovers have another perspective on what a good knife is compared to lets say a plumber or carpenter. .

That perspective gets lost in a lot of reviews from writers/youtubers in the US. Its made to be abused.