A Topic for Actual Discussion

[The Amazing Virginian]

Yes, a topic for Actual Discussion. Please do not post on this thread that you think my knife is super cool and neato burrito. Please post only if you want to discuss the topic and have an actual thought or comment on it.

And here is the topic.

What types of posts should be considered proper and appropriate on threads in ths forum when someone posts a picture of some knife they made or acquired?

1) Is it Kosher to say you don't like the knife? Or is this place supposed to be like your momma told you: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. I mean, I would like to think we all agree that tone is important, and that it is not cool to be nasty, condescending, mean, personal, etc. and that there is some value in being polite and respectful. And I suppose that most of us anyway would agree that it can be a good thing if you post a negative or critical remark, that you temper it to the extent that you honestly can with any positives that you see. But separating the message from the way that the message is delivered, are any form of negative or critical responses on "look-at-my-knife" threads here going to be considered OK? Or is it OK for the OP to shut down the thread if critical or negative remarks start showing up?

2) If negative or critical comments are going to be welcomed on such threads, is it then OK to respond to such comments and/or to request elaboration? You know . . . engage in an Actual Discussion? Again, I am not talking how such Actual Discussions are conducted. I would like to think we could agree that such Actual Discussions should be conducted politely and respectfully. I would like to think that we can separate our opinions on a knife, and even a critique of a knive, from the person who posted the knife or the critique. But my question for Actual Discussion is whether you think that when folks post a picture here of a knife they made or acquired, that they should reasonably expect that such Actual Discussions take place on that thread? Or, again, is it OK for the OP to shut down the thread if an Actual Discussion occurs?


Obviously, other than the owner of this forum, none of us get to make the rules here. And I want to be clear that I totally respect that and that I am in no way trying to undermine that. But I would hope that the owner would not mind if we respectfully discussed what we would like to see happen in this forum.

And FYI I'm not a naive rube. I've been posting at "Interwebs" forums since 1996 and I am fully aware that plenty of pissing contests have happened here in the past - as in just about any Internet forum. My topic for Actual Discussion is in a sense a probe to determine whether the folks here are just so battlescarred from past pissing contests that they are now happy and content with the sanitized and anesthetized content that is just about all that this forum seems to have these days.


I'll start.

1) I think politely delivered opinions - positive and negative - should be welcomed and expected any time anyone posts a picture of a knife in this forum.

2) I think that it is beneficial to the overall knowledge and appreciation of custom knives - and especially beneficial to new custom knife makers, collectors, and enthusiasts - if folks here regularly engaged in an Actual Discussion of their opinions on knives posted here, including the assumptions, bases, and reasons for their opinions.

 

[JMJones]

In my opinion, if a maker or collector comes here asking for input, feedback, opinions ect., everything is fair game as long as the response is genuine and not mean spirited.

However, if a collector or maker is posting pics of a knife that they purchased or made and just want to show off something they are happy about, I dont see any point in negative feedback or criticism.

I dont think this should be a rule for the forum, just my personal view on how I conduct myself.

 

[The Amazing Virginian]

In my opinion, if a maker or collector comes here asking for input, feedback, opinions ect., everything is fair game as long as the response is genuine and not mean spirited.

However, if a collector or maker is posting pics of a knife that they purchased or made and just want to show off something they are happy about, I dont see any point in negative feedback or criticism.

I dont think this should be a rule for the forum, just my personal view on how I conduct myself.

Thanks for your comments on this.

I think that what you describe is pretty much what happens here now.

The problem with that IMO is that no one (or hardly anyone) will ever ask for any feedback because they can get all the positive feedback anyway by just posting picture without asking for comments - and without any risk of any negative or countervailing opinions. All the benefits with none of the other side of it. And that creates a false impression to new makers or collectors that all of these knives posted here are just terrific, because that is all they ever read here.

It distorts reality.

It turns this forum into nothing but a "show-off" place to brag on your new stuff. Maybe everyone else here thinks that is great. It tends to bore me. I think it you want to show off here, then the "price" for that ought to be to accept a discussion of the knive. Otherwise, if negative or critical discussion is not allowed, then I think positive comments should ALSO not be allowed. Just post the picture and lock the thread for all comments. Seems more balanced and fair. But maybe no one else here would agree with that.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

I guess we should be able to expect about anything.
By that I mean, the title of this forum is "Custom and Handmade Knives".
It's not "Critiques for..........."
"Discussions about.........."
"Opinions of..........", etc.
It's just "Custom and Handmade Knives".
And that leaves a zillion doors open in regards to countless enthusiasts, young or old, new or long-term, collectors, makers of all types, every knife imaginable, etc.
How could we even possibly try to determine, "What types of posts should be considered proper and appropriate on threads in this forum when someone posts a picture of some knife they made or acquired?"
"Custom and Handmade Knives" is simply too big of an arena to try to delineate rules or guidelines.
I think what we have is what we're going to have. It is what it is.
No sense in trying to regulate it.
"Critiques and Opinions" could be a sub-forum all it's own.

 

[peterinct]

In my opinion, if a maker or collector comes here asking for input, feedback, opinions ect., everything is fair game as long as the response is genuine and not mean spirited.

However, if a collector or maker is posting pics of a knife that they purchased or made and just want to show off something they are happy about, I dont see any point in negative feedback or criticism.

I dont think this should be a rule for the forum, just my personal view on how I conduct myself.

+1 :thumbup: I agree.

Peter

 

[bdmicarta]

Unless someone asks for comments I will usually look at their work and keep quiet. If I spot something unique then I might comment on it. There are too many people already commenting on how good it looks.

I've also discovered that there are aspects of knife design that I don't like, but other people do like, so I'm not going to say I don't like some aspect of it simply because of my individual taste.

 

[Jon Brand]

I like positive AND negative comments. That said, I still am very careful due to politics. But I think we should be able to make critiques both ways and wish it could go more smoothly.. Maybe I am dreaming. I post knives that I love, but I would not do so if I couldn't take negative criticism on them.

 

[betzner]

IMHO, those who start threads to allow others to see posted knives should have no issue whatsoever in whether posters like or dislike the knife or knives posted. The knives are fair game. And what people say about the knives should not be censored. HOWEVER, the people who do the postings, at least in threads I start about individual knives, are NOT fair game. I'll repeat it here - I don't like bitchy personalities changing the life of a thread of mine from fun to personality clashes. When that happens, I have a forum right to close the thread down. Anyone who has a problem with me exercising that right must think his or her right precedes my "dues paying" right.

Best,

Bob

After some time, I came to a decision to start posting some of my acquisitions recently. In light of this "interesting" thread, I've decided to again make the entire collection private.

 

[Lorien]

+2:thumbup:

In my opinion, if a maker or collector comes here asking for input, feedback, opinions ect., everything is fair game as long as the response is genuine and not mean spirited.

However, if a collector or maker is posting pics of a knife that they purchased or made and just want to show off something they are happy about, I dont see any point in negative feedback or criticism.

I dont think this should be a rule for the forum, just my personal view on how I conduct myself.

I tend to appreciate threads which are started that ask for honest feedback, and I'll happily share my opinion and try to be helpful in those threads. It would be great if collectors posted their knives and asked for opinions, but that rarely happens, so I can only assume they're posting these knives with the intent to share only. Makers tend to be the ones who ask for feedback in here, and it's good to be honest with them.

I find it interesting that many of the people who bemoan the lack of discussion, often tend not contribute their opinion to threads where the OP actually asks for feedback. If the OP opens that door to all, he or she ought to expect everyone to feel welcome to walk through it, regardless of opinion.

All feedback is positive, if feedback is sought after. If feedback isn't sought, and sharing is the goal, then negative comments might not be appreciated and could lead to a discontinuation of sharing for sharing's sake. Sometimes there just isn't an agenda- there is just a simple and honest desire to share.

 

[braillediver]

In light of this "interesting" thread, I've decided to again make the entire collection private.

A great loss for all of us.

We need balance and tact in our postings.

I've pretty much given up on the "discussions" due to recent history and lack of any real discussion. But the pictures- I can't go on without the pictures and new owner pride.


Mitch

 

[Wulf]

This may seem quaint, but I tend to view this discussion forum as a discussion forum.

There are times when I enjoy simply looking at photos of knives... Coop's website is a great place to do that. So is Blade magazine, and the Knives Annual books, and even the Gallery subforum. But this is the place I come to discuss knives. Not just look at pictures and ooh and aah but actually discuss them. I consider the forum participants here my friends and comrades on a common journey. I respect them. I want to talk to them, understand their perspectives, read their opinions, hear their stories and learn from them. Opinions will always vary but ultimately it is our opinions that ignite our passion for this craft. So let's share that passion! Let's engage eachother, not shut eachother out! Believe me it's much more fun and interesting and fulfilling this way.

 

[JMJones]

I agree that some people post here and just want the "atta boys" and dont want feedback. Others dont realize that this is, in my opinion, the "Big Leagues" of custom knife forums and show up with pics of a very early attempt at knife making. In my opinion providing negative feedback or criticism to either poster will probably will fall on deaf ears, that why I dont do it.

That being said, I am not in favor of creating extra rules and trying to steer the forum in certain directions, it will be what it will be.

And finally, locking threads for all comments on a knife discussion board kind of seems counter productive.

Thanks for your comments on this.

I think that what you describe is pretty much what happens here now.

The problem with that IMO is that no one (or hardly anyone) will ever ask for any feedback because they can get all the positive feedback anyway by just posting picture without asking for comments - and without any risk of any negative or countervailing opinions. All the benefits with none of the other side of it. And that creates a false impression to new makers or collectors that all of these knives posted here are just terrific, because that is all they ever read here.

It distorts reality.

It turns this forum into nothing but a "show-off" place to brag on your new stuff. Maybe everyone else here thinks that is great. It tends to bore me. I think it you want to show off here, then the "price" for that ought to be to accept a discussion of the knive. Otherwise, if negative or critical discussion is not allowed, then I think positive comments should ALSO not be allowed. Just post the picture and lock the thread for all comments. Seems more balanced and fair. But maybe no one else here would agree with that.

 

[Bastid]

The best education I have absorbed was from watching and listening to makers who were starting out getting advice from highly experienced makers.

There is an art to guiding a person to higher levels of workmanship when it comes to something they made. How the critique is worded is key. Otherwise many times no good comes about from the critique. When someone wants an honest opinion from me, I have learned how to handle and get whatever I find negative across, but I prefer face to face.

 

[Kevin Jones]

1) I think politely delivered opinions - positive and negative - should be welcomed and expected any time anyone posts a picture of a knife in this forum.

2) I think that it is beneficial to the overall knowledge and appreciation of custom knives - and especially beneficial to new custom knife makers, collectors, and enthusiasts - if folks here regularly engaged in an Actual Discussion of their opinions on knives posted here, including the assumptions, bases, and reasons for their opinions.

I fully agree Kenneth.
And I have always thought it pretty good advice "that if one is not willing to accept any and all opinions/comments etc, then they probably shouldn't post on the internet regardless of whether it's knives or whatever."

 

[The Amazing Virginian]

After some time, I came to a decision to start posting some of my acquisitions recently. In light of this "interesting" thread, I've decided to again make the entire collection private.

Gee, not sure what to make of that. Often when someone puts a word within quotes - like "interesting" - there is a level of sarcasm implied.

I guess I am surprised and disapppointed that simply on the basis of one thread by little old me just trying to open up for discussion the kind of place folks would like this place to be, you would make a decision not to post any more pictures of your knives anymore. Not clear if that applies only to BladeFiorums, or whether you are extending that embargo to CKCA, too, where you have posted pictures also. That would really be something sad if because of my thread here, you decided not to post any pictures at CKCA.

But they are your knives, your pictures, and of course your decision.

Take care and all the best!

 

[Storm Crow]

I know that what I make is in a different genre than what gets discussed the most 'round these parts, but by all means feel free to give positive and negative feedback on anything I post here. I will heed or ignore it at my discretion, though.

In general, I don't comment on anything unless it is something that really stands out to me. I look at so many pictures of knives every day that I quickly skim over most pictures and only stop to really look at those that grab me. I will occasionally comment in the negative on one, but usually it is a single aspect that jars with the whole, or is a comment that I typically don't like a given style but I do like that particular example.

Keep discussion civil and remember that one person's vision of what a knife should be is no reflection on anyone else's.

 

[Storm Crow]

Oh, and Betzner, I'd prefer to see more custom knife pictures, not less. Hope you decide to share some more in spite of folks getting persnickety.

 

[Kevin Jones]

IMHO, those who start threads to allow others to see posted knives should have no issue whatsoever in whether posters like or dislike the knife or knives posted. The knives are fair game. And what people say about the knives should not be censored. HOWEVER, the people who do the postings, at least in threads I start about individual knives, are NOT fair game. I'll repeat it here - I don't like bitchy personalities changing the life of a thread of mine from fun to personality clashes. When that happens, I have a forum right to close the thread down. Anyone who has a problem with me exercising that right must think his or her right precedes my "dues paying" right.
Best,

Bob

Bob, where in your Newton NYS thread do you see examples of "bitchy personalities changing the life of a thread of mine from fun to personality clashes"?
All I see after going through it again is a beautiful knife and good points being made, comments and discussion.

 

[betzner]

There has already been way too much written here about comments that many have now apparently read and re-read, in order to write even more about it.

In the Newton thread, I saw what appeared to me to be the beginnings of an argument. So I chose to let participants know what would happen if someone tried to hijack the thread - and apparently Lorien, at least, understood what I was doing and my intent - that I would close the thread. Simple as that. Had nothing to do with anyone's opinion of the knife.

That's about as clear as I can make it and as clear as I intend to. Frankly, this particular thread is a perfect example of why it's often more fun to be elsewhere on the internet.

 

[The Amazing Virginian]

Frankly, this particular thread is a perfect example of why it's often more fun to be elsewhere on the internet.

I take exception to that. This is my thread. I have been polite on every post here. I am just as entitled to post threads here as you are.

I see no rational explanation for your reaction to this thread and you have indicated that you do not intend to provide one. Fair enough. But no one is forcing you to open every thread here, particularly my threads, and more particularly this thread.

I do find it somewhat incongruous that you seem to feel unencumbered in criticizing my thread, but you do not apparently share the same enthusiasm for anyone being critical on threads you start.

Best regards.