A2 Steel Update

There's a lot of complex reasons for picking certain blade steels, you can't just pick something out of a hat and use it. 52100 is mentioned a lot in this thread but remember its not a steel that is made in the thin stock required for the trailmaster, not in asia anyway. The drop forged series made use of the thick stock, but its not economical to surface grind most of the steel away to make the trailmaster compared to the thin stock alternatives. The truth is most steels that would be suitable for knives aren't produced in suitable thicknesses.
 
See post #129 below. Quote taken from the Cold Steel Mod in another thread that may apply here! I wasn't sure how to transfer the quote from one thread to another at the time I posted. It was my attempt to introduce some levity and possible answers as to why Cold Steel has decided to go with a different steel.
 
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I have the drop forged survivalist the stock on that knife is pretty thick, and the trailmaster and recon scout had 5/16" thick blades. I cannot see that being an issue.Reminds me of Seinfelds father,with a twist; cheap steel and dim lighting; thats how you move merchandise..
 
I was hoping to add a Recon Scout to the line up this year. I passed on an O 1 model in order to snag an A2 version of this year.

It's disappointing that I won't be able to get the A2...things happen. It seems that it would be better just not to release the flagship knives this year rather than make them with sub-par steel.

How are they going to handle the Proof videos with 4034? Are they just going to leave the Proof videos up showcasing previous models with better steel? Or will they try to pass off 4034 as a respectable steel in the videos? Either would seem to hurt Cold Steel's credibility.

I certainly understand needing to balance the needs of the business against the desires of your core fan base. I just don't see how 4034 has any upside in any way... unless the goal is to make extremely cheap knives that you sell at a mid-range price. A price that you expect to be able to command due to the reputation of the (up till now) quality of Cold Steel knives.

I hope that this isn't the case. I hope that there is more clarification coming that will make more sense.

Heck, even if they make this out of 4034 and list them as 'Lite' knives without releasing regular versions this year would be understandable.
 
Nsled said:
There's a lot of complex reasons for picking certain blade steels, you can't just pick something out of a hat and use it. 52100 is mentioned a lot in this thread but remember its not a steel that is made in the thin stock required for the trailmaster, not in asia anyway. The drop forged series made use of the thick stock, but its not economical to surface grind most of the steel away to make the trailmaster compared to the thin stock alternatives. The truth is most steels that would be suitable for knives aren't produced in suitable thicknesses.
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Nope , I have a Drop Forged Bowie . If anything , it's thinner than the Trail Master . I don't buy this rationale , at all .

Maybe I'm just not understanding ?

Also , I don't think drop forging is primarily about material removal . But this stuff is not my forte .

And ,by the way , a Drop Forged Trail Master from 52100 would be much preferable , IMO to a low ball stainless version .
 
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DocJD said:
Nope , I have a Drop Forged Bowie . If anything , it's thinner than the Trail Master . I don't buy this rationale , at all .
Maybe I'm just not understanding ?
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I'm only looking at pictures, but if you are only referring to blade thickness that doesn't matter its the max thickness of the handle that does. I'd be extremely surprised if they were drop forging a knife out of thinner stock then the finished product. 52100 is generally available in rod form and I would assume that's where they are starting from with the drop forged series, I don't know how they achieve it at that price though. Anyway my point is, just because they've used 52100 it doesn't mean that it can be readily used in other designs.
 
Nsled said:
I'm only looking at pictures, but if you are only referring to blade thickness that doesn't matter its the max thickness of the handle that does. I'd be extremely surprised if they were drop forging a knife out of thinner stock then the finished product. 52100 is generally available in rod form and I would assume that's where they are starting from with the drop forged series, I don't know how they achieve it at that price though. Anyway my point is, just because they've used 52100 it doesn't mean that it can be readily used in other designs.
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Baloney. Plenty of mills produce 52100 bar stock. A chunk big enough to make a trailmaster wouldn’t cost all that much more than the equivalent chunk of liner material they’re proposing, and it would actually make a good knife.
 
Nsled said:
I'm only looking at pictures, but if you are only referring to blade thickness that doesn't matter its the max thickness of the handle that does. I'd be extremely surprised if they were drop forging a knife out of thinner stock then the finished product. 52100 is generally available in rod form and I would assume that's where they are starting from with the drop forged series, I don't know how they achieve it at that price though. Anyway my point is, just because they've used 52100 it doesn't mean that it can be readily used in other designs.
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Drop Forged Series - Which One is Your Favorite?? - YouTube
Regarding drop forging a Trail Master from 52100, I think that it could be done. Stamp the blade and tang, sharpen and finish, then apply the kraton rubber handle. The Survivalist is a step or two away from being a Recon Scout. They've already changed the handle from the original design with plastic scale inserts. Just go a step further and slim the handle to a tang shape then add the brass guard (or not) and kraton handle. Imagine a Natchez and Laredo with no cable tang and G10 or micarta scales for handles like the Warcraft Tanto!!!
 
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Contact us | Cold Steel Knives
Lynn Thompson started Cold Steel, Inc. 40 years ago with one goal in mind, to build a better knife. I think that for the most part he has succeeded and I hope that he continues to do so. We all benefit as a result. Him with increased sales and us with great knives. There's a solution out there somewhere. Maybe somebody reading this very forum has an idea. If so pass it on!
 
Nsled said:
The drop forged series made use of the thick stock, but its not economical to surface grind most of the steel away to make the trailmaster compared to the thin stock alternatives. The truth is most steels that would be suitable for knives aren't produced in suitable thicknesses.
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Every knife they are looking at using it in is 1/4" to 5/16" thick.
 
This very poor decision will stop me from buying any cold steel knives period. You have lost a customer for life. The A2 line was the only thing in the line up I was looking forward too. Now it's basically BUD-K garbage.
 
Man with no name said:
like the Warcraft Tanto!!!
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Warcraft Tanto is ahead everything else except AK47 fixed blade IMO. Those 2 are just something else.
With how things are going they'll downgrade them first to SK5, then AUS8 or 4116 and eventually 4034.
Fletcher.357 said:
This very poor decision will stop me from buying any cold steel knives period. You have lost a customer for life. The A2 line was the only thing in the line up I was looking forward too. Now it's basically BUD-K garbage.
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Mall ninjas will be happy tho.
Another brand to follow Gerber it seems...
 
DocJD said:
o_O I can only conjecture that CS tried the higher quality road with their 3V DLC coated models ( just for example) and were apparently not rewarded by the market .

Same for many of CS higher end products .

The market is not always smart about favoring the products that perform the best or are the best value /quality . :(

Maybe CS decided to just give in and make junk if that's what sells at a decent profit ? :confused:

After all , lots of people still buy Al Mar , SOG , Gerber etc . :rolleyes:
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It's hard to convince people to pay high end money for products from a company that also (or even largely) makes low end stuff. There is a reason Rolex doesn't also make digital watches-- they would devalue their name. In the same way it is tough to get people to spent a couple hundred bucks on a knife company that they see prominently featured in Walmart blister packs. You can't really show off that product to your friends..

You can chase the bottom dollar into the sewer, but you are gonna end up covered in feces.
 
It's too bad that Cold Steel decided to go this route, I feel like in the past few years they have been putting out good knives that finally elevated their name above their mall ninja marketing and gained some respectability. They upgraded the steels on most of their models and got some great designs. now it seems they are throwing that all away.
 
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