Abaniko’s by Bram Frank

[T-Kash]

A couple of months ago I had the chance to handle one and I still don't know what this ramp is supposed to be good for. Neither does the knife fighting instructor I talked to about it.

You're telling me that I "don't want to get it" - so far, no one has bothered to give me a good reason for it to be there.

It's an "integral" part? What does that mean?
What purpose does it serve?
Is it there because of the "kinetic opening" and "LTL" application as an impact device (never mind the fact that these two options don't make sense in a fixed blade...)?

I'm not saying that the ramp was designed that way for no reason, but unless someone explains it to me, I will continue to wonder about it.

What instructor is that? I would be curious to know if he's had one in his hand? If you were really curious about what the ramp was for you could ask the designer. I'm pretty sure that he would tell you all about it.

My comments on the ramp can be found here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366232&highlight=Abaniko

The Abaniko is a fixed blade, so obviously it has no kinetic opening application and IMO the LTL feature of the Gunting is not a feature of the Abaniko for the same reason: it's a fixed blade. The ramp is an "integral" feature (read as "built in") that facilitates blade orientation as does the ergonomic design (read, shape) of the grip.

 

[Quiet Storm]

What instructor is that?

I'm not gonna name him for obvious reasons.
Besides, does it matter? I just pointed it out that someone who knows more about knife fighting than I do can't figure out what the ramp is good for either.

I would be curious to know if he's had one in his hand?

Yes.

If you were really curious about what the ramp was for you could ask the designer. I'm pretty sure that he would tell you all about it.

Jeez...I asked here (and not only in this thread) because I thought that at least one of those who own that knife know what its most prominent feature was actually designed for...well, apparently nobody does...

Do I really need to ask the designer of a knife about that because no one else really knows why the hump is there? That's a first...

My comments on the ramp can be found here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366232&highlight=Abaniko

Regarding your last post in that thread (by the way, do you really need to drag every other thread on the Abaniko BTTT?):

The ramp also helps you maintain positive control of the knife when you choke-up on it for doing close cutting work like making stakes and other necessary tools that you might have to make out in the bush.

It's also steep enough to seriously maul your thumb if you stab something with it.
If it's supposed to act as a double guard, fine. But why make the secondary guard bigger than the primary?

Please note that I'm not bashing that knife, I'm genuinely curious because nobody seems to be able to answer the questions I have about it.

I know some deer hunters that love the positive control they get from the knife even while its bloody from dressing out a buck.

Well, I can't comment on its suitability for hunting applications...

Is it an outdoor/hunting knife or a fighter?

The Abaniko is a fixed blade, so obviously it has no kinetic opening application and IMO the LTL feature of the Gunting is not a feature of the Abaniko for the same reason: it's a fixed blade.

That's what I was trying to convey in my earlier post.

The ramp is an "integral" feature (read as "built in") that facilitates blade orientation as does the ergonomic design (read, shape) of the grip.

The handle ergonomics in general are pretty good, that's true.

 

[T-Kash]

The ramp is big, but if you hold the knife properly (i.e., like a weapon as opposed to a table knife) you won't hurt your thumb with a strong stab.

No worries about not posting the name of the instructor. I'm curious if he has considered asking the designer about the purpose of the ramp. Has he? I certainly don't have all the answers that you're looking for, but I hope that my input has helped you even in a small way. Maybe if you were more specific than "what's the ramp for?" somebody could answer the questions you have.

Are you military? What unit are you with in Heidelberg, BTW?

 

[T-Kash]

Well, I can't comment on its suitability for hunting applications...

Is it an outdoor/hunting knife or a fighter?

It's a fighter; a well thought out and designed fighter.

 

[Quiet Storm]

The ramp is big, but if you hold the knife properly (i.e., like a weapon as opposed to a table knife) you won't hurt your thumb with a strong stab.

So in your opinion Filipino grip is the "proper" way to hold a fighter? or are we talking about the dagger grip (that doesn't need thumb ramps at all)? Or something entirely different?

Well, if you ask me, the "proper" fighting grip for smaller knives is reverse grip pikal for short blades and saber grip for larger ones - but that's largely a matter of personal preference.

I certainly don't have all the answers that you're looking for, but I hope that my input has helped you even in a small way.

Your replies did show me that the hump has utilitarian advantages, but unfortunately that still doesn't answer my question. It's not your (or anyone else's, for that matter) responsibility to educate me about it anyway.

Maybe if you were more specific than "what's the ramp for?" somebody could answer the questions you have.

Does it get much more specific than asking about the idea behind a huge thumb ramp?

No worries about not posting the name of the instructor. I'm curious if he has considered asking the designer about the purpose of the ramp. Has he?

No. It was an informal chat. It's not like we spend hours trying to analyze the design or something.

Are you military? What unit are you with in Heidelberg, BTW?

I used to be in the military (and want to return in 2007) - German Bundeswehr though.

 

[Quiet Storm]

It's a fighter

Well, that's my point. That's why focusing on utility use aspects to explain the hump doesn't really make sense IMO.

a well thought out and designed fighter.

Apart from the hump, it is a good fighter design.

 

[T-Kash]

Wow, I actually thought might be American. You don't write like English is your second language.

What do you mean by a "Filipino grip" are you referring to the "cancer grip"? I'm not a fan of that. I was alluding to holding the knife by wrapping your hand entirely around the the handle without the thumb extending forward. I don't recall hearing the ramp referred to as a thumb ramp before, and I don't know of any other purposes for it than what you refer to as "utilitarian advantages".

I agree, pakal is good for shorter knives, but grip is subjective though. I don't believe in changing grips on the fly; drop your knife - lose your life. How you initially grab the knife is how it should stay until you put it away.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

I like it, too. This thread has an odd undertone of heat that isn't warranted. No disrespect intended, but like QS I still can't quite figure out the hump; beyond that, I really like the design. For me, for a longer blade, the only grip I use is hammer grip, so I don't have the issue QS does, where his choice of sabre grip looks like it would make the hump problematic. It's just a bit more in the way than I'd like.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to respond "The hump is there because that's Bram's signature design element, and has a side effect that it's got some advantages in certain utility uses", if that's what the answer is.

 

[T-Kash]

Well, that's my point. That's why focusing on utility use aspects to explain the hump doesn't really make sense IMO.



Apart from the hump, it is a good fighter design.

I think that there's a free DVD you can get that has Bram Frank explaining the features of the Abaniko. Well, almost free. I think you have to pay the postage.

 

[T-Kash]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to respond "The hump is there because that's Bram's signature design element, and has a side effect that it's got some advantages in certain utility uses", if that's what the answer is.

Right on, Joe. That probably is the answer. It's quite possible that we've made more out of it that what's really there.

 

[Quiet Storm]

Sure, the design works well in hammer grip - but what do you need the hump for, then?

If it's supposed to be a general purpose combat/utility knife instead of a "pure-bred" fighter, the hump does make sense.

Wow, I actually thought might be were American. You don't write like English is your second language.

Thanks! It's my job though, so it's not that impressive really.

What do you mean by a "Filipino grip" are you referring to the "cancer grip"?

Yep, that's the one.

I agree, pakal is good for shorter knives, but grip is subjective though. I don't believe in changing grips on the fly; drop your knife - lose your life.

I agree.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to respond "The hump is there because that's Bram's signature design element, and has a side effect that it's got some advantages in certain utility uses", if that's what the answer is.

Well, yes...that may well be the answer. I just don't know if I want to sacrifice carryability for the incorporation of a signature feature in a fighting knife.

 

[T-Kash]

Well, yes...that may well be the answer. I just don't know if I want to sacrifice carryability for the incorporation of a signature feature in a fighting knife.

I suppose it depends upon "how" you're going to carry it; open/tactical carry vs concealed. I would't bother trying to take a 5 or 7 inch knife for concealed carry. A knife that big would create a pretty big profile no matter where you tried to hide it. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Quiet Storm]

I quite often carry a knife with a 5 inch blade...

...and occasionally one with a 7 inch blade:

 

[T-Kash]

Concealed? What sort of rig do you use? I'm curious how you might explain tools like those to the Polizei if they found them on you.

 

[Quiet Storm]

Yep, concealed, under an untucked shirt. The first one (David Mosier handmade) is set up for IWB carry and due to the short yet secure handle comfortable to carry.
Carrying no. 2 (Jürgen Schanz custom made to my design) concealed is a bit more difficult, but it does work. Either regular belt carry with the Tek-Lok mounted for a high-riding position or SOB carry.

I'm a pretty big guy, so I guess it wouldn't work for everyone.

 

[T-Kash]

Cool. I like the first one.

The only gripe I have with the Abaniko is the crappy sheath that Ontraio paired it up with (it's a step up or two from keeping the knife in a pile of feces). There are some nice custom jobs out there though.

 

[Quiet Storm]

I'm curious how you might explain tools like those to the Polizei if they found them on you.

Nothing to explain there: they're perfectly legal to carry in Germany (as long as you're at least 18 years old and carry proper ID), except at public events like demonstrations, concerts etc - of course I do not carry a knife when I'm attending such an event.

 

[Quiet Storm]

The only gripe I have with the Abaniko is the crappy sheath that Ontraio paired it up with (it's a step up or two from keeping the knife in a pile of feces).

Oh yeah, but unfortunately that's a problem with a whole host of production fixed blades today. Yet another reason to go custom.

 

[ccoates]

I was just hunting through the threads and saw this old, almost flame war on the Abaniko ramp.

I have been training with Bram and his people for several years now. It is my experience (gained painfully, first hand) that one of the ramp's purposes is to allow in-close limb control, especially when someone grabs your knife hand wrist; a quick backwards hook, dab and pull is quite effective at trapping the opponent's hand. This will work to some extent with most double guarded knives, but it works really really well with the Abaniko.

Clinton

 

[BRAM]

I won't hang around long..not my place to be..
The Triangular hole in the ramp is my signature shape...a reflection of my Ramp design.
the ramp keeps your hand from sliding up onto the blade under duress and thrusts in forward or reverse grip
The ramp sets up your hand for a fencers grip or sabre grip
The ramp acts as a guard and redirects incoming objects and force
the ramp keeps the hand from sliding onto the blade in reverse grip and locks it into your hand
The same ramp allows for the blade not being forced onto your arm in reverse grip while allowing for trapping....
the ramp allows for delicate use of the tip, with finger control as in skinning or small scraping motions
the ramp allows for redirects or passing in FMA or similar arts
The ramp allows for joint manipulations..
the ramp and choil act together for re enforced grips for heavy work...

the ramp to butt is as said...my signature design and patented to that effect

the Abaniko has served many of our Security, Military and Ops guys over the pond where ever they've need it...@ work or very wet jobs

The Military version is double edge...the Civilian is false edged.

The Abaniko family of knives has many varieties:
an actual Abaniko, The Submarine, The Desplatasaurus Tactical, The Guro, The Eskrimador, The Lapu Lapu ...

No worries if you don't like my designs or they just don't do it for you.
There's enough other designs from other people to fill the gap.
Thank you all for even looking or talking of my designs.

My knife designs have only been out for just over 10 years.
That's a drop in the bucket..

be safe

Bram