About to step into the world of knife making need some advice.

D

Dr Feelgood

Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
71
Hello everybody!
I have posted here once or twice, good crowd with good advice.
Since I was a kid I have wanted to make knives but have never been in the position to do so.
I have some equipment, belt grinder, wheel grinder, band saw, buffer, sharpener, drillpress and welding equipment.
The only training I have is high school metal shop and welding. I can make simple knives and such from scrap metal and have been doing so since I was a kid. ATM I have a large area to build a custom shop and the opportunity to buy all the basic equipment required. I work full time 7 days on 7 days off, my plan is to start this as a project for my off work days.

Im not really sure what to ask... im possibly on the edge of a life changing project and im a bit nervous but I can look at professional knives and say... jeez if I had the right equipment I know I could make a knife like that.

I would appreciate any words of wisdom or advice.

I have to put together a list of equipment that I will need.
It has to be a complete list but not to pricey.

Can you please help me with my list.
Ill write out what I think I need and if I miss anything could you please point it out too me.

-Heat treating furnace im thinking of a Paragon D-24 (is this good or is there another better option)
-I would like a good quality knife makers belt grinder but im not sure what to get (any suggestions)
-Protective clothes
-Quenching tub

Of course steel and other knife materials

Heres where im stuck.
What do I need for hand tools ??
Files, Hammers, sand paper and sanding block... not sure what else.

The advantage I have is I have time and room to make mistakes and teach myself and I dont have to rely on this as a source of income for now.

So please let me know what my list needs so I know what to stock a basic shop with.
Thank you for your time and advice !!
 
It all depends on what kind of knife you want to make, check around and see if any bladesmiths are in your area, call them and ask if you could visit. Look into schools that teach knife making and talk to them. These simple acts will save you a lot of wasted money and time.
 
Agree with what Mr. Fowler said, I also would suggest purchasing some books on knife making. I suspect that in the end the price of those books will save you many times their cost in wasted expenditures.
 
Sounds good. I have a number of books but plan to really get more books and dvds to build up the collection. I would like to do a little of everything as far as knives go, folders, fixed blade, hunting knives, survival knives, kitchen knives forged and stock removal. And possibly a few swords eventually.
 
I'm just starting out as well. I'm 45, so I don't have time to fool around chasing my tail.

It has taken me close to two years to get to the point I'm at. If you count a couple of real knife shows, where you work your ass off pulling in as much info as you can, (like Eugene and Atlanta) and top grade schooling (I'm actually going to visit Mr. Fowler, who would rather be called Ed, for a long week in about a month), setting up my shop with the best equipment I can find (again, I don't have time to fool with budget equipment), materials, and getting a shop in order, I've probably got about $50k invested if I'm working for minimum wage. I don't see that as a very large expenditure to be able to do something I love to do for the next 20 or 30 years.

I know you can start off in a bathroom for $50. Wayne Goddard will tell you how to do it.

I'm different. I want to start making money at this game right now. You can only ever get what you pay for. I have been building friends and associates for 2 years, so my knives will look good, cut well, and I'll be able to sell them immediately. Not just one or two here or there for a measly $100, but I have built connections that will help me make a decent living off of this right now. I did have to spend a lot to do that though, and I'm not done yet.

My way is only that. There are other ways, but I am going to start out at the highest level I can possibly attain. If Ed asked me "What kind of knives do you want to make?" I would look him straight in the eye and say, "Only the best will do, Sir."
 
grizzled gizzard said:
I'm just starting out as well. I'm 45, so I don't have time to fool around chasing my tail.

It has taken me close to two years to get to the point I'm at. If you count a couple of real knife shows, where you work your ass off pulling in as much info as you can, (like Eugene and Atlanta) and top grade schooling (I'm actually going to visit Mr. Fowler, who would rather be called Ed, for a long week in about a month), setting up my shop with the best equipment I can find (again, I don't have time to fool with budget equipment), materials, and getting a shop in order, I've probably got about $50k invested if I'm working for minimum wage. I don't see that as a very large expenditure to be able to do something I love to do for the next 20 or 30 years.

I know you can start off in a bathroom for $50. Wayne Goddard will tell you how to do it.

I'm different. I want to start making money at this game right now. You can only ever get what you pay for. I have been building friends and associates for 2 years, so my knives will look good, cut well, and I'll be able to sell them immediately. Not just one or two here or there for a measly $100, but I have built connections that will help me make a decent living off of this right now. I did have to spend a lot to do that though, and I'm not done yet.

My way is only that. There are other ways, but I am going to start out at the highest level I can possibly attain. If Ed asked me "What kind of knives do you want to make?" I would look him straight in the eye and say, "Only the best will do, Sir."
Click to expand...

Well said Sir.

Figure out what you want to do and where you want to go. That will tell you what you need to invest in. I am taking the plunge myself, with intent.
 
grizzled gizzard said:
I'm just starting out as well. I'm 45, so I don't have time to fool around chasing my tail.

It has taken me close to two years to get to the point I'm at. If you count a couple of real knife shows, where you work your ass off pulling in as much info as you can, (like Eugene and Atlanta) and top grade schooling (I'm actually going to visit Mr. Fowler, who would rather be called Ed, for a long week in about a month), setting up my shop with the best equipment I can find (again, I don't have time to fool with budget equipment), materials, and getting a shop in order, I've probably got about $50k invested if I'm working for minimum wage. I don't see that as a very large expenditure to be able to do something I love to do for the next 20 or 30 years.

I know you can start off in a bathroom for $50. Wayne Goddard will tell you how to do it.

I'm different. I want to start making money at this game right now. You can only ever get what you pay for. I have been building friends and associates for 2 years, so my knives will look good, cut well, and I'll be able to sell them immediately. Not just one or two here or there for a measly $100, but I have built connections that will help me make a decent living off of this right now. I did have to spend a lot to do that though, and I'm not done yet.

My way is only that. There are other ways, but I am going to start out at the highest level I can possibly attain. If Ed asked me "What kind of knives do you want to make?" I would look him straight in the eye and say, "Only the best will do, Sir."
Click to expand...

Wait... what ?? I have been thinking about what you said and I dont know what to make of it. It sounds to me like your trying to say my knives are going to be of poor quality because I am teaching myself and I am just using basic, simple tools (not poor quality) just no fancy gadgets.
forever mankind has been making incredible works of art and engineering with only the most modest of tools. For a knife to look good, cut well and sell is a matter of skill not the price of your equipment.
To earn your skills through hard work and practice and starting from the ground up is the soul of a metalsmith. Not buying your skills to sell to the highest bidder but you are right we each have our own ways.
I just want to make knives for the pleasure of making knives.
If I misunderstood you my apologies I hope your business turns out well and brings you enjoyment and prosperity.
 
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I started out wanting to get better at sharpening the knives I own. I've since moved on to a knife making hobbyist. I've bought about $300 in equipment (all Harbor Freight) and about the same for materials. Now I am practicing pinning and soldering bolsters on inexpensive Green River blades. Right now I am looking at a nice boning knife that I made last month and I just spent an hour or so working on my next one. I'd like to forge my own blades down the road but the skills I am developing now are all transferable. So you do not need to jump in with both feet you can take your time and refresh your skills.
As an aside, I put handles on a couple of knives about 20 years ago and finished them by hand using rasps, files and sandpaper. I did not gain much by doing so. I already knew how to use the tools. The ones that I have made recently using the power equipment all look nicer and were much more satisfying to build.
Good luck for your endeavor.
 
Well. I'm learning as well. A couple things. Fill out your profile. Where are you? There are knifemakers/bladesmiths in every state in the US, every Province in Canada and many more all around the world. The MOST IMPORTANT THING NEEDED TO MAKE KNIVES IS in my opinion.....friends who make knives. They can be here on BF, but best of all is the ones you meet face to face and share knowledge with.
After that...
Tools needed as I've decided from accumulating a bunch of tools....Also, what's your budget? Work with what you have and add on? Or, spend a couple grand to get basics? ? Need details for good advice. Experience, age etc....
Belt Grinder... 2"x72". If you have limited funds and time to spare. Build one. I recommend the GIB from Jamie at Polar Bear Forge. I have one and it's very nice. With a VFD.
If you have funds, but no time. A TW90 from Travis Wuertz is top of the line with the surface grinder attachment it'll run 4 grand....In between KMG grinders are nice. For not much money, but needs work to bring out potential is the Craftsman 2"x42"....
Drill press... Bench top, free sanding. I like my little benchtop, but, I upgraded today.....
Disc Grinder.... It get's stuff flat.... I'm picking mine up Friday!
Table vise... A couple different kinds...or, maybe one nice one with a swiveling base to start.
Bandsaw... You say you have one...metal or wood? Wood saws run too fast for cutting steel... Good for handle material....A Portaband, or other good metal bandsaw helps.
Here's a start for you to think on... other people can add their thoughts.
 
The count should post soon and I suggest you read and do everything he posts. My main suggestion is make your mistakes by hand before you make them by machine, it will cost less and hurt less. There are at least 2 makers on here that make fantastic knives by file and sandpaper and have only just started getting into machines. Having powered tools only lets you make mistakes bigger and faster, take your time and don't rush is the best thing you can do. When you think you can move on to the next step, stop and really look over what you just did and then decide if you can move on or not.
 
As predicted - here is my usual list


I've put this together to answer most of a new maker’s questions. I'm sure it will help you too.

The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V15

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos

BladeForums - E-books or Google books


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings & the Loveless book. Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.

Forget about Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.

Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

The best video on leather sheath making for beginners that I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with machine stitchers..)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info. Use the keywords “LurkerLurker torrent” “knifemakerC torrent” and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use O1, A2, D2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you want to heat treat yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel, 1070, 1080, 1084.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking and is well suited for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel


You can find a list of suppliers here

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Photo of a nice bevel filing jig

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and put on safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309



Searching
Search works for ALL users, even unpaid users.
Try it, I’ll bet you’re not the first to ask the question here


V15 Added Craftsman speed modification link
 
I would start with the basics and buy additional tools as you find a need for them. By then you will have a better idea of what your particular needs are, which helps in making tool choices that will serve in the long term. You don't have to start out with every possible tool, some guys have made (and still do) perfectly respectable knives with less equipment than you have already.
 
Dr Feelgood said:
Wait... what ?? I have been thinking about what you said and I dont know what to make of it. It sounds to me like your trying to say my knives are going to be of poor quality because I am teaching myself and I am just using basic, simple tools (not poor quality) just no fancy gadgets.
forever mankind has been making incredible works of art and engineering with only the most modest of tools. For a knife to look good, cut well and sell is a matter of skill not the price of your equipment.
To earn your skills through hard work and practice and starting from the ground up is the soul of a metalsmith. Not buying your skills to sell to the highest bidder but you are right we each have our own ways.
I just want to make knives for the pleasure of making knives.
If I misunderstood you my apologies I hope your business turns out well and brings you enjoyment and prosperity.
Click to expand...

Fluidsteel gets me. That is exactly what I did. I made friendships with people and makers in the knife world, but I know what I want, and I'm too old to make mistakes. I said this is my personal view. I'm sorry that I gave you non-applicable info. My bad. You would like to start as a hobbyist, and I'm opposite of that. I know you can make nice knives with files and sandpaper, and if that's what you have in mind, I say go for it. My first batch of knives, 6 blades of 5160 is ready for me to grind the bevels. I'm going slowly, learning all I can, but we just aren't in the same boat.

I'm sorry, I would never mean to offend you or anyone else. I should probably just shut up and listen.
 
grizzled gizzard said:
Fluidsteel gets me. That is exactly what I did. I made friendships with people and makers in the knife world, but I know what I want, and I'm too old to make mistakes. I said this is my personal view. I'm sorry that I gave you non-applicable info. My bad. You would like to start as a hobbyist, and I'm opposite of that. I know you can make nice knives with files and sandpaper, and if that's what you have in mind, I say go for it. My first batch of knives, 6 blades of 5160 is ready for me to grind the bevels. I'm going slowly, learning all I can, but we just aren't in the same boat.

I'm sorry, I would never mean to offend you or anyone else. I should probably just shut up and listen.
Click to expand...

Hey no worries :) I just wasnt quite sure what you were trying to say is all. The bads more on my part. Now I follow what you were getting at and completely agree!
I appreciate the reply.
Its all good.
 
I know well what it is to start from scratch, made my first steel knife over 60 years ago. Cold Chisel, kerosine blow torch, vice, hammer and anvil, files and sand paper were my tools. Worked on my own for 20 years, then spend a couple of weeks with Bill Moran and gained 100 years of knowledge, met another knife maker who shared in my quest for knowledge and working together we gained another 60 years experience, met a metallurgist who also wanted to seek knowledge and gained another 80 years. I still have many questions and more frontiers await. You are young enough that you could easily advance the science and art of knife making tremendously if you chose to peruse that quest intelligently.

I wish you luck and always remember the number one rule - enjoy your quest.
 
I think I like buying stuff to make knives almost as much as making them and it's less frustrating too.
 
Sounds like you will approach this with resources....that being said spend 3400 on the wuertz TW-90, you will not outgrow that machine! Then go find a maker in your area and watch, then go home and apply. Get about 20' of some 10 series high carbon, get a hidden tang pattern from ur new maker friend and start grinding....I prefer hollow grinding but im a newb just making 9" hunters. Either way have fun and welcome to the club....now get to the grindstone!
 
There are as many ways to dive into this obsession as there are people in it. I would suggest buying what you can afford in the way of tools now. (use the counts reply for lists). Make a knife or two then decide haw far you are wanting to go with it. Add tools as you need or want and continue until you can't fit any more into the shop. Then build a bigger shop.:D As was stated earlier, getting to know some makers is the best way to see what you are really wanting to do. PLEASE fill in your profile so we can see where you are. It might even result in an invite to a shop or two. Possibly even a hammer in..
 
Hehe yes I like to get new equipment for making knives as well. But im always worried about how much I spend so I try to make do with what I have, its a habit I inherited from my parents. Im going to start with stock removal hunting knives to begin with. I have lots of design ideas and many rough templates I have made, just no 'finished' knife yet.
I want to try hollow grind to start with myself but I find this concept rather perplexing...
I live out in the wilderness and everybody here hunts so thats why I figure start with hunting blades.
The steel I have chosen to start with is 1084 and 1095. 1084 im sure I can figure out but im a little nervous about 1095. Theres only one way to get a feel for it. I will try forging a bit later. I also did forging in highschool... not just my name on other peoples homework but also the metal kind. I think just for the practice I will build my own gas forge out of fire bricks and an old industrial propane cylinder.
 
grizzled gizzard said:
My first batch of knives, 6 blades of 5160 is ready for me to grind the bevels. I'm going slowly, learning all I can, but we just aren't in the same boat.
Click to expand...

I must be missing something here... You haven't finished a single knife yet but you're looking to "make a decent living off this right now"? You got a big brass pair, I'll give you that much.

Dr Feelgood said:
...The advantage I have is I have time and room to make mistakes and teach myself and I dont have to rely on this as a source of income for now.
Click to expand...

There ya go. Keep your designs simple and concentrate on symmetry, balance and a good cutting edge. Everything else will follow.

Tools don't make a knife. Skill does.
 
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