Action

[Slice O Life]

When it comes to selecting a knife, the importance of action cannot be overlooked. Action refers to how a knife feels and functions when opening and closing. It encompasses various aspects, such as the smoothness, speed, and overall quality of the mechanism. Let's explore the significance of action and personal preferences in more detail.

The concept of action is diverse and can be experienced differently depending on the knife. For instance, a hydraulic action, like that of a Chris Reeve, is characterized by a slow and exceptionally smooth movement. On the other hand, some knives, like those from Holt, exhibit a drop-shutty action, which means they effortlessly fall closed when released. Conversely, certain knives, such as those from MTech, may have a cheaper feeling action that lacks refinement and precision.

Action is not limited to specific types of knives; it is a factor present in most pocket knives and folding knives. However, fixed blades focus more on sheath retention rather than action. Regardless of the knife type, good action is crucial. A well-executed action should be smooth, devoid of any grittiness, and facilitate easy deployment and retraction. It should also position the knife securely and conveniently for use.

Let's consider an example of a knife with subpar action, such as the Leatherman Crater. While not terrible, the action of the Crater falls short. The thumbstud is uncomfortable, and the knife's construction features sharp edges on the plastic coverings and metal liners. Opening the knife with a thumb flick or flipping it requires excessive wrist effort. On the positive side, the Crater locks up securely, but overall, it cannot be considered to have good action.

Now, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on action. How would you define action, and what qualities constitute good action for you? Additionally, what aspects do you believe can ruin the action of a knife? I'd love to hear your insights on this topic.

 

[BD_01]

Action is the quality and quantity of force required to open and close the knife, including overcoming the detent/spring/locking mechanism.

I like a crisp detent, that’s strong enough without being too strong.
Past the detent, the less friction felt, the better, IMO.
I prefer a little resistance when closing, so the blade doesn’t come crashing home (or on my finger).

Of course there can be no perceptible side-to-side blade play while all of this is happening.

 

[whereismyknife]

The action is actually the most important factor that makes a knife usable. I believe that a good action should not tire the user but at the same time not compromise safety and be free of any unnecessary movement. Sometimes manufacturers cheat to get a good action. When the detent is too stiff, the force needed to open the blade increases and this makes the swing too fluid. I don't think that makes for a good action. Also, sometimes I don't think it's appropriate to compromise on robustness to achieve action. Ball bearing is one of the best action mechanisms but I'm an old school guy who thinks it's not for heavy duty. Washer should be developed where friction is minimum and durability is maximized. I also don't like the action of button lock locks. It's a lot of wrist swinging to open a knife and there may be times when I can't do it.

 

[Slice O Life]

The action is actually the most important factor that makes a knife usable. I believe that a good action should not tire the user but at the same time not compromise safety and be free of any unnecessary movement. Sometimes manufacturers cheat to get a good action. When the detent is too stiff, the force needed to open the blade increases and this makes the swing too fluid. I don't think that makes for a good action. Also, sometimes I don't think it's appropriate to compromise on robustness to achieve action. Ball bearing is one of the best action mechanisms but I'm an old school guy who thinks it's not for heavy duty. Washer should be developed where friction is minimum and durability is maximized. I also don't like the action of button lock locks. It's a lot of wrist swinging to open a knife and there may be times when I can't do it.

Interesting, on the Protech Malibu and the Civivi, Spyderco Smock, and the Smooth Criminal I’ve had the blade deploys with no wrist and the button lock drops the blade shut with no effort. The only button lock that needs wrist that Ive had is those miluwakee utility knives.

I agree on the washer thing to a degree. I think bearings are just as good if done right but the action can become less smooth. I think in terms of actual utility and usage of the knife, bearings will rarely fail. Although, drop a bearing knife into some sand and Im sure it will be fairly close to feeling like it is failing.

With bearings, Ive come to realize that if my skateboards with bearings on the wheels can go through mud, sand, grime, corrosion etc, my knife that I treat well will probably preform just fine as well.

 

[Tsujigiri]

I think two things that people don't consider that contribute to the feel of a knife's action are the dimensions of the blade and the locking mechanism. Some locks feel "stickier" when they lock up than others, while other locks supply the detent that you need to push the blade open. And a blade with a higher moment of inertia will feel slower opening, particularly the case when you have a longer blade and a blade with a more reinforced tip. For something like a flipper, this means that you need a heavier detent for the opening to still feel snappy. Also, heavier blades can easily make a knife "drop-shut" without improving the action at all.

I agree that bearings probably won't catastrophically fail under normal use, but I think they can lose their glassy feel pretty easily. Skateboard bearings have the advantage of having that seal on the outside to prevent particles from getting in, and even if they do get a little gritty the forces on the board are enough that it will still roll.

 

[tony281sc2]

Good action is common nowadays even on budget knives, it’s crazy….
Buy Really good action, like on my 0462, my Hinderers w/skiffs, and especially my Shiro Quantum, is still somewhat rare. I know all of those knives have heavy blades, but they are more than just “drop shut”..
There’s something else going on, a hydraulic feeling. I put Skiffs in all of my Hinderers, and some ZTs. IMO they are well worth the $10, not just for the better action, but the fact that they won’t rust. I haven’t tried a MRBS Shiro yet, but I’d like to someday. Never had any durability problems with bearings in the ~7 years I’ve been carrying knives with them

 

[K.O.D.]

For the average person, or even a good amount of knife enthusiasts, action is not that important. It is to me, mainly because I'm a psycho who flips/flicks knives for stress relief. I've owned all sorts of knives, but I must admit, bearings are nice. My Alan Davis custom flipper on bearings is the bees knees.

However, bearings do not necessarily make a great flipper. Even with upgraded taco bearings, my Spyderco Domino and Southard are just "average."

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I love good action on a folder, but I file it pretty purely under an aesthetic preference rather than anything that contributes materially to how effective the knife is. I have lots of back locks and others that have dreadful action by the standards of many, but they still open, close and cut wonderfully, so there's no issue with them.

 

[JohnnyGalt]

I think the term many use on this forum of “drop shut” or ”drop shutty” is a misnomer. I see many knife brands such as Holt (in the first post), Shirogorov, & Koenig (among many others) claimed as having this “action”. However, I own multiple examples from each of these brands and none of them simply “drop shut” without resistance. What they really do is more of a “glide close” with the force of gravity oftentimes needing to be turned, tilted, or occasionally shaken slightly to achieve this gliding effect (this somewhat varies by brand).

Those custom and regular production knives that achieve this action are a real testament (in my option) to the design, craftsmanship, tolerances, and assembly that go into these folding knives. Some may (incorrectly in my opinion) attribute this difference to simply a knife running on bearings vs washers, but I think it’s a deeper difference than just that. I’ve owned and seen plenty of knives running on bearings that just don’t achieve a very good action. Additionally, I have handled and seen knives running on washers that achieve a similar effect.

 

[whereismyknife]

Interesting, on the Protech Malibu and the Civivi, Spyderco Smock, and the Smooth Criminal I’ve had the blade deploys with no wrist and the button lock drops the blade shut with no effort. The only button lock that needs wrist that Ive had is those miluwakee utility knives.

I agree on the washer thing to a degree. I think bearings are just as good if done right but the action can become less smooth. I think in terms of actual utility and usage of the knife, bearings will rarely fail. Although, drop a bearing knife into some sand and Im sure it will be fairly close to feeling like it is failing.

With bearings, Ive come to realize that if my skateboards with bearings on the wheels can go through mud, sand, grime, corrosion etc, my knife that I treat well will probably preform just fine as well.

I guess I was misunderstood. It's unlikely to open a button-lock knife without a flick of the wrist. This wrist action may be different with a free swing blade, but it's still there.It opens with a minimum of movement, with different ways of using gravity.I am aware of all this. It just seems like this action doesn't apply to every position. In other words, it is not possible to open it in every position with just a finger movement, like a flipper. I hope I was able to explain myself. I'm definitely not trying to say that button locks are bad. On the contrary, perhaps the most practical legal knives. I wanted to give an unlikely example of extreme situations. My aim is to make a different comment for the post and to chat with each other.

I think the most difficult conditions should be the criterion for carrying a knife in daily life. Even once in a lifetime, the knife should not let you down. For this reason, my vote is for washers. (Features such as lock mechanism are of course important.)

I don't know the specs, but at least visually, the bearings of a skateboard and the bearings used in a blade don't sound like the same thing. Maybe someone who is an expert on this can enlighten me. Like I said, I'm ignorant about it. Common sense tells me it's normal to have a durability difference between these two things. Imo, the fact that the balls are in steel slots where it is not possible to come out and they are protected with a steel cover may be the reason for the difference, but as I said, I am talking about something I do not know.

 

[K.O.D.]

I remember when I got my first "modern" folder. I was 17, a sporting good store at the mall was closing, moving to a location about 15 miles away as the mall didn't want a store that sold "weapons" etc. This was 1996. I purchased a Sog Pentagon Elite for $35, which was normally I wanna say $65. Liner lock model, and I'd never had a knife that was so fun and fast to open and close. About 5 years later someone told me about the CRKT M16 having a "flipper" for quick deployment. I ordered one from I believe the Cabela's catalog, and was so underwhelmed when I received it. What a POS. That flipper tab was a good idea, but the execution ( I knew nothing of CRKT in those days) was horrible. The lock eventually failed on me, even with the "lawks" system because the lock actually went past 100% lol. I junked it.

Since then I've bought/sold/traded/given away so many knives my tastes are quite refined.

I found that I have my dedicated "users" that I will have no problem tackling anything with, and "action" isn't necessary, but is good to great with (GB1, Manix 2, Demko AD20.5) the rest are light users with high fidget factor. So, for daily carry light use stuff action is important, but for the brutes it is not required but it is always appreciated.

 

[Slice O Life]

I guess I was misunderstood. It's unlikely to open a button-lock knife without a flick of the wrist. This wrist action may be different with a free swing blade, but it's still there.It opens with a minimum of movement, with different ways of using gravity.I am aware of all this. It just seems like this action doesn't apply to every position. In other words, it is not possible to open it in every position with just a finger movement, like a flipper. I hope I was able to explain myself. I'm definitely not trying to say that button locks are bad. On the contrary, perhaps the most practical legal knives. I wanted to give an unlikely example of extreme situations. My aim is to make a different comment for the post and to chat with each other.

I think the most difficult conditions should be the criterion for carrying a knife in daily life. Even once in a lifetime, the knife should not let you down. For this reason, my vote is for washers. (Features such as lock mechanism are of course important.)

I don't know the specs, but at least visually, the bearings of a skateboard and the bearings used in a blade don't sound like the same thing. Maybe someone who is an expert on this can enlighten me. Like I said, I'm ignorant about it. Common sense tells me it's normal to have a durability difference between these two things. Imo, the fact that the balls are in steel slots where it is not possible to come out and they are protected with a steel cover may be the reason for the difference, but as I said, I am talking about something I do not know.

While skateboard bearings are different, the function is relatively the same. I think my argument for bearings could be made, even subtracting anything I said about skateboards at all. Over time, debris may get caught in any type of bearings. For the most part though, unless it is a mineral or hard material like sand, the bearings will be very smooth. I used skateboards as an example because they encounter a lot of debris, and even though you see some have coverings, debris does in fact get inside the bearings. Even rusted bearings on a skateboard will still ride, but not as smooth.

I'm not sure what you mean by the wrist action still. Here is an example of my Smooth Criminal.

https://imgur.com/a/U0NcLLA

 

[Slice O Life]

I remember when I got my first "modern" folder. I was 17, a sporting good store at the mall was closing, moving to a location about 15 miles away as the mall didn't want a store that sold "weapons" etc. This was 1996. I purchased a Sog Pentagon Elite for $35, which was normally I wanna say $65. Liner lock model, and I'd never had a knife that was so fun and fast to open and close. About 5 years later someone told me about the CRKT M16 having a "flipper" for quick deployment. I ordered one from I believe the Cabela's catalog, and was so underwhelmed when I received it. What a POS. That flipper tab was a good idea, but the execution ( I knew nothing of CRKT in those days) was horrible. The lock eventually failed on me, even with the "lawks" system because the lock actually went past 100% lol. I junked it.

Since then I've bought/sold/traded/given away so many knives my tastes are quite refined.

I found that I have my dedicated "users" that I will have no problem tackling anything with, and "action" isn't necessary, but is good to great with (GB1, Manix 2, Demko AD20.5) the rest are light users with high fidget factor. So, for daily carry light use stuff action is important, but for the brutes it is not required but it is always appreciated.

I agree with those examples you gave, all excellent knives for action. The Manix with it's ball bearing lock is very smooth because of the way the ball interacts with the blade tang. I am into the mid-tech level of knives, but if a good deal comes up on a Manix I would be hard pressed to say no...

 

[Slice O Life]

I guess I was misunderstood. It's unlikely to open a button-lock knife without a flick of the wrist. This wrist action may be different with a free swing blade, but it's still there.It opens with a minimum of movement, with different ways of using gravity.I am aware of all this. It just seems like this action doesn't apply to every position. In other words, it is not possible to open it in every position with just a finger movement, like a flipper. I hope I was able to explain myself. I'm definitely not trying to say that button locks are bad. On the contrary, perhaps the most practical legal knives. I wanted to give an unlikely example of extreme situations. My aim is to make a different comment for the post and to chat with each other.

I think the most difficult conditions should be the criterion for carrying a knife in daily life. Even once in a lifetime, the knife should not let you down. For this reason, my vote is for washers. (Features such as lock mechanism are of course important.)

I don't know the specs, but at least visually, the bearings of a skateboard and the bearings used in a blade don't sound like the same thing. Maybe someone who is an expert on this can enlighten me. Like I said, I'm ignorant about it. Common sense tells me it's normal to have a durability difference between these two things. Imo, the fact that the balls are in steel slots where it is not possible to come out and they are protected with a steel cover may be the reason for the difference, but as I said, I am talking about something I do not know.

Oh I think I understand what you mean. You mean a non-flipper button lock with no thumbstuds. Yes, in that case I can't see anyway you would open it without wrist unless you had gravity and the position of the knife at the right place.

 

[K.O.D.]

I agree with those examples you gave, all excellent knives for action. The Manix with it's ball bearing lock is very smooth because of the way the ball interacts with the blade tang. I am into the mid-tech level of knives, but if a good deal comes up on a Manix I would be hard pressed to say no...

Being 9 years old, my Manix 2 is very smooth. I too am at a higher level now in knife tastes (see my post moving on from production knives) and my top three are all over $400. My Alan Davis' action is so amazing I keep thinking I'm imagining it.

 

[Slice O Life]

Being 9 years old, my Manix 2 is very smooth. I too am at a higher level now in knife tastes (see my post moving on from production knives) and my top three are all over $400. My Alan Davis' action is so amazing I keep thinking I'm imagining it.

I am actually interested in that thread, got a link to it? Over this last year I've pretty much lost interest in production knives. Not quite at the custom level yet, but at the mid-tech/semi-custom level.

 

[whereismyknife]

While skateboard bearings are different, the function is relatively the same. I think my argument for bearings could be made, even subtracting anything I said about skateboards at all. Over time, debris may get caught in any type of bearings. For the most part though, unless it is a mineral or hard material like sand, the bearings will be very smooth. I used skateboards as an example because they encounter a lot of debris, and even though you see some have coverings, debris does in fact get inside the bearings. Even rusted bearings on a skateboard will still ride, but not as smooth.

I'm not sure what you mean by the wrist action still. Here is an example of my Smooth Criminal.

https://imgur.com/a/U0NcLLA

I once saw a pocketknife on the internet where balls spilled when disassembled. It's been a long time, but if I find it, I will share it. I also really like the action of ball bearings. It's fun to play, but at the end of the day, I feel like I'd rather have washers in my pocket knife.

Oh I think I understand what you mean. You mean a non-flipper button lock with no thumbstuds. Yes, in that case I can't see anyway you would open it without wrist unless you had gravity and the position of the knife at the right place.

Yeah, just like civivi Elementum button lock. I am very glad that I was understood. The knife you shared is great. Definitely a great example of action and I think it's very good in daily use. I started looking for one. Looks worth getting.

 

[Carl Kills Kittens]

I also really like the action of ball bearings. It's fun to play,

so what ur saying is that you like to play with balls

 

[Slice O Life]

I once saw a pocketknife on the internet where balls spilled when disassembled. It's been a long time, but if I find it, I will share it. I also really like the action of ball bearings. It's fun to play, but at the end of the day, I feel like I'd rather have washers in my pocket knife.

Yeah, just like civivi Elementum button lock. I am very glad that I was understood. The knife you shared is great. Definitely a great example of action and I think it's very good in daily use. I started looking for one. Looks worth getting.

I love pretty much anything from Medford, but damn they are expensive. They do carry a certain political vibe to them as well because of Greg Medford, but I care more for them as tools. I think I saw this ball bearing situation where they fell out as well, it was when Nick Shabazz disassembled the Tactile Turn Rockwall I believe... but perhaps I am wrong.

I agree with you on the washer thing as well. I would prefer all my knives to have washers, even with the Smooth Criminal. Some knife models are a bit more forgiving than others.

 

[Slice O Life]

so what ur saying is that you like to play with balls