Action

[Delgadonine]

Thank you Vlade!

 

[Vlade]

Thank you Vlade!

I meant to mention once you do this with your shoes you never have to tie them again. It makes life a little more easier.

 

[irsh]

When I picture knife ball bearings, I think of old Honda motorcycles and their loose steering-head bearings that always make a break for it when you pull the triples off an old bike.
I realize that's not the case, but the preconception probably keeps me from buying one so equipped.

 

[Slice O Life]

Flippers are a fad? That’s 99% of what I own, been collecting knives for about 7 years now, and I don’t see them going anywhere soon. Too practical, fidgety, and quick to open for me to want anything else, except for my 3-4 Spydercos and Socom Elites. When I started getting into the higher end stuff in 2016-2017, I remember really good flipping action wasn’t as common as it is today. That’s what drew me towards zero Tolerance. They had/have some of the best action, regardless of price, in my opinion. (ESPECIALLY with Skiffs)

*IMO button locks are a fad. Cool concept, but I definitely would NOT trust the lockup like I would on a framelock/ liner lock.

You know actually Im fairly certain that a well made button lock is similar to a cross bar/axis lock in strength which would make it stronger than a liner lock or a frame lock. I don’t know this for a fact but I’m pretty sure I heard it from somewhere that it is the case.

 

[Slice O Life]

When I picture knife ball bearings, I think of old Honda motorcycles and their loose steering-head bearings that always make a break for it when you pull the triples off an old bike.
I realize that's not the case, but the preconception probably keeps me from buying one so equipped.

I think it’s also important to consider that not all ball bearing washers are created equal. You can have really thin ones or really thick ones.

 

[Blues]

I love the action on the Demko AD-20...and on my 1998 vintage Sebenza (Large / Regular). Smooooothhh.

My Spyderco GB 2, Benchmade Ritter, and a few Hinderers are also worthy of mention.

Normally, I'd obsess on the action of custom traditional folders more than modern folders, as there is more going on there...but it applies to both.

As to defining it...well, I know it when I feel it.

Just say no to bad actions.

 

[whereismyknife]

You know actually Im fairly certain that a well made button lock is similar to a cross bar/axis lock in strength which would make it stronger than a liner lock or a frame lock. I don’t know this for a fact but I’m pretty sure I heard it from somewhere that it is the case.

Gt Knives Axial lock and crkt deadbolt lock (technically they are almost the same thing), I bet they are stronger than any liner lock or unmodified frame lock. also both are technically button locks and that's a fact.

 

[Peregrin]

Over the years I've purchased Chris Reeve knives, William Henry knives (liner and button lock), Spyderco knives, and a number of custom liner locks. I recently got into front flippers and I gotta say I'm hooked. Maybe it'll pass, but right now I can't think of another knife I'd rather carry then my PT Malibu. The action is just great, it does what I need it to do, and if I need a stronger lock I should probably be using a fixed blade knife. I've got my eyes out for a fancier model, and I can't remember buying the same knife twice.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

[Hackenslash]

Im not sure this is entirely true. A horrific action can sometimes make a knife unusable. I think you mean to say that the upper echelon of action is not really important to a knife. As long as the knife comes out and goes away without problem, then who cares. I agree with that sentiment, but as a crazy person I do like how some higher end action feels.

It doesn't matter how well a knife cuts if it doesn't open when it should. Just as it doesn't matter how many bullets you have if you can't get your gun out of its holster.

edit: A friend of mine was hanging from a seat belt in an upside down car in a traffic accident and he said that he was unable to use one hand and he was feeling excruciating pain in the other hand and somehow he was able to reach his knife and cut the belt. the knife he was talking about was a cheap kershaw speedsafe tanto but you could only open it by touching the flipper.

Sounds like you guys might be confusing a defective knife with “bad action”. My comment was predicated on the assumption that the theoretical folding knife we’re discussing has basic functionality.

 

[Slice O Life]

Sounds like you guys might be confusing a defective knife with “bad action”. My comment was predicated on the assumption that the theoretical folding knife we’re discussing has basic functionality.

Well my leatherman crater is not defective but absolutely has bad action

 

[whereismyknife]

Sounds like you guys might be confusing a defective knife with “bad action”. My comment was predicated on the assumption that the theoretical folding knife we’re discussing has basic functionality.

I don't think so. Let me even say this. A bad action and a defective knife are almost the same thing, case by case. First of all, action is a relative concept. It can completely change depending on the situation. A bad action can result in a blade that does not open properly where it should. That's not to say I'm talking about a defective knife. Imo bad action means that the knife doesn't open as easily as you want, when you want it. If you have enough time and energy, you may not mind your action but a knife may need to be opened with a very limited range of motion and with limited force without problems. I think people should always make assumptions based on the worst case scenario. In my daily life, a slip joint knife doesn't seem to have any bad action as long as I use both hands, but what if I can't use it at that moment? In this case, this pocket knife has a bad action. So it doesn't matter if it cuts or not. I would even say this. I prefer an average knife that I can open easily and effortlessly to one that is very sharp and super steel but with "bad action".

 

[tony281sc2]

May I ask the reason behind this? For example, in what ways is a liner lock different and better than a button lock?

See the shiny cylindrical thing ? That’s all that is keeping the blade locked up….doesn’t seem as secure as an entire frame sitting under about 50% of the blade…

I can’t remember ever breaking a lock (not counting a few Gas station specials Way back), but 95% of the time I use framelocks, liner, or compression locks.

Also, the spot where the button sits in the blade, is not incredibly deep.

Not saying I’ll ever break it, but I doubt this is stronger than say, my 0308 or my Eklipse
And don’t get me wrong, I do like some of the designs of the button locks/axis locks out there right now (like the Malibu or the Maverick), but there is also a lot of other stuff I like/want more (AD-20, Sebenza for example)

 

[whereismyknife]

See the shiny cylindrical thing ? That’s all that is keeping the blade locked up….doesn’t seem as secure as an entire frame sitting under about 50% of the blade…
View attachment 2229729
I can’t remember ever breaking a lock (not counting a few Gas station specials Way back), but 95% of the time I use framelocks, liner, or compression locks.

Also, the spot where the button sits in the blade, is not incredibly deep.

Not saying I’ll ever break it, but I doubt this is stronger than say, my 0308 or my Eklipse
And don’t get me wrong, I do like some of the designs of the button locks/axis locks out there right now (like the Malibu or the Maverick), but there is also a lot of other stuff I like/want more (AD-20, Sebenza for example)

As I wrote above, you may be surprised if you look at button locks such as crkt deadbolt lock or GT axial lock. Not every liner lock is good, and there is no rule that every button lock will be strong. I think the two locks I mentioned are much stronger than your 0308 and eklipse. In addition, sometimes slippage of the liner is more likely than the breakage of the shiny piece, because when that piece is in front of the blade like a wedge, the liner usually contacts in a way that allows it to slip. But of course, this is also related to the production quality.

By the way, I am not saying that liner lock or frame lock is bad. Or I'm not saying that the button lock is better. I'm just saying that it may vary according to design and quality.

 

[K.O.D.]

Liner lock and axis lock are the only locks to fail on me. That said, the liner was a CRKT.

I like knives I can open with either hand, and I have no issues opening liner or frame locks lefty.

I've only had two experiences with button locks (PT Malibu and Kershaw Launch 8) and am not really seeing the big deal. Not at all lefty friendly. Well I had a smock briefly too.

I really like front flippers as well. Flippers are definitely not a fad, have been around 20 years at least, and time and technology have brought them to where they are today.

If I want lock strength, I look no further than the CBBL on my Manix 2 or the Shark lock on the Demko.

 

[tony281sc2]

As I wrote above, you may be surprised if you look at button locks such as crkt deadbolt lock or GT axial lock. Not every liner lock is good, and there is no rule that every button lock will be strong. I think the two locks I mentioned are much stronger than your 0308 and eklipse. In addition, sometimes slippage of the liner is more likely than the breakage of the shiny piece, because when that piece is in front of the blade like a wedge, the liner usually contacts in a way that allows it to slip. But of course, this is also related to the production quality.

I hear you there. Especially with lockbar inserts. The inserts are nice, because if you ever wear it out it can be replaced. But they usually lock up super early, and lock slip can happen…
IMO framelocks Without inserts have the potential to lock up even more solid….but there is always a give/take, as they can’t be easily fixed if you wear it out…

 

[whereismyknife]

IMO framelocks Without inserts have the potential to lock up even more solid….but there is always a give/take, as they can’t be easily fixed if you wear it out…

Absolutely I agree. Unfortunately, we do not see innovative solutions as much as we used to. More precisely, something is not done very often to improve existing systems.We are constantly seeing new steels, new handle materials, etc., but there are very few innovations that excite us. I still remember how impressed and excited I was when I picked up my first kershaw cyclone. A pocket knife, both automatic and manual. What a cool thing it was back then.

 

[tony281sc2]

Absolutely I agree. Unfortunately, we do not see innovative solutions as much as we used to. More precisely, something is not done very often to improve existing systems.We are constantly seeing new steels, new handle materials, etc., but there are very few innovations that excite us. I still remember how impressed and excited I was when I picked up my first kershaw cyclone. A pocket knife, both automatic and manual. What a cool thing it was back then.

Speaking of kershaw, I hear ZT is supposedly releasing some new stuff this year (ZT rep said this at the last blade show)…
they were my first favorite brand when I got into higher end knives (Kershaw, then I graduated to ZT). But they do a lot of innovative stuff, I just hope they do more collaborations with Hinderer, Rexford, Sinkevich, etc… not that their in house stuff is all boring, but the collabs are where it’s at!
I’d love to see more blade shapes of the 0393 and the 0562, but Rick probably wouldn’t allow it, since it would take a HUGE chunk out of his own business.
Sorry for getting off topic

 

[whereismyknife]

Speaking of kershaw, I hear ZT is supposedly releasing some new stuff this year (ZT rep said this at the last blade show)…
they were my first favorite brand when I got into higher end knives (Kershaw, then I graduated to ZT). But they do a lot of innovative stuff, I just hope they do more collaborations with Hinderer, Rexford, Sinkevich, etc… not that their in house stuff is all boring, but the collabs are where it’s at!
I’d love to see more blade shapes of the 0393 and the 0562, but Rick probably wouldn’t allow it, since it would take a HUGE chunk out of his own business.
Sorry for getting off topic

This is so interesting. I think Zt was one of the brands with the best action in the good old times. Now the Chinese have completely changed the game. A knife with as good action as the most expensive ZT costs $30 - $70. But when ZT is mentioned, I never think of innovation. I've always found brands like ZT, Hinderer, Strider to be Conservative (with the exception of design, they are ahead of their time, especially Hinderer). By innovation I mean different locking mechanisms, opening methods, etc.

 

[tony281sc2]

This is so interesting. I think Zt was one of the brands with the best action in the good old times. Now the Chinese have completely changed the game. A knife with as good action as the most expensive ZT costs $30 - $70. But when ZT is mentioned, I never think of innovation. I've always found brands like ZT, Hinderer, Strider to be Conservative (with the exception of design, they are ahead of their time, especially Hinderer). By innovation I mean different locking mechanisms, opening methods, etc.

I know. It’s been a while since ZT has released anything new, I’m wondering if it’ll be a button/axis lock, a collab, another fixed blade…? (Or maybe an Auto?) He didn’t get into any details other than saying they have “new products in the works coming out this year”, or something like that.
But definitely good to hear, I honestly wasn’t sure if ZT was ready to get the Axe (pun intended), but I guess not!

 

[unwisefool]

The action is actually the most important factor that makes a knife usable.

Interesting, I always thought it was the blade, but I guess you learn something new every day...