Activity: Pitch Glue

Hi all,

Paleojoe, lol you know about 20 years ago I was visiting a friend of mine and he was telling me about a friend of his who fixed his computer. Well he used pine pitch and charcoal because he said the charcoal made it harder lol. I do not know what he fixed on Jims comeputer but anyways I always think about that when I see pine pitch now lol.
When I melted and made my little pitch on the end of a stick. I just used the pine pitch.

I have a pine tree here at the farm that I cut some bleeder notches in so I can collect the pitch that forms in there when I want. I will try that with charcoal the next time I make some up just for fun:D.

Take care and chat with you later,

Bryan
 
sicily02 said:
Hi all,

Paleojoe, lol you know about 20 years ago I was visiting a friend of mine and he was telling me about a friend of his who fixed his computer. Well he used pine pitch and charcoal because he said the charcoal made it harder lol. I do not know what he fixed on Jims comeputer but anyways I always think about that when I see pine pitch now lol.
When I melted and made my little pitch on the end of a stick. I just used the pine pitch.

I have a pine tree here at the farm that I cut some bleeder notches in so I can collect the pitch that forms in there when I want. I will try that with charcoal the next time I make some up just for fun:D.

Take care and chat with you later,

Bryan
Click to expand...


Brian, I think in one of Ray Mear's videos he mentions adding some fat to the pitch to keep it pliable or more resilient. He melts some up and adds (bear?) fat to patch up a canoe. I'm hoping a little rendered suet will do as well.
 
Thanks for all the kind words gents!


Bryan,
A pitch patched Pc, eh? That's a computer I'd like to see!


Rotte,
You're right in saying it takes a couple tries to get the amounts. If there is too little or too much of something, you can always put it back on heat, get it hot, and add what what is lacking.

It also varies as estimating the amount of pitch collected varies, esp. if there is much debris.

From my experience:
-Scat adds pliability, and binding, think 'waddle and daub'.
-Coal adds binding, body, and hardness. Too much coal will be dense but also brittle, you'll know if it's really lightweight that there is too much charcoal. Making a charcoal and scat rich pitch is hard and binds well, but also takes a nice flame.
-Beeswax or fat adds texture, pliability and body. Also a nice warm glow!
 
paleojoe, lol it was not a big repair job by any means. I think a peace of plastic broke off the tower or something like that but this friend of my freind was really a interesting guy. He really like the out doors and the survival aspec of things. So when my friend told him about the plastic peace that broke off Mark just went and got some pine pitch and charcoal that he had mixed up from his Kit and fixed the computer peace lol.

It worked better than crazy glue lol.

Bryan
 
since I make knife sheath for the knives I make I buy 1 pound blocks of bees wax for melting in to the neats foot oil I have for putting the finish on the sheath I make. I will have to try that with the pitch and charcoal.

Good tip Joe, thanks

Bryan
 
Great post, paleojoe, comments below, notwithstanding.

I've experimented with Pine pitch using different combinations of charcoal and fat, and I never really found it to be a great glue. I'll have to try your method.

Erret Callahan (I know you know who this is) maintains that, "Still, at its best, pine pitch mixtures are but fillers, not glues. Nor can it compare with the Australian spinifax gum, which allows hafting of stone tools without the use of binding." (PT1 - 190)

He goes on to say, "Additives include, in various parts of the world, charcoal powder, hardwood ashes, unfired ceramic clay powder, and dried dung flakes (of grass eaters). I haven't tried them all so can't evaluate their relative merits."

Comments?

Doc
 
I haven't seen or heard of anyone making pitch in a good long time. It sure has plenty of uses... fascinating how-to and definitely a skill bushcrafters can practice and put to use country-wide. Tree sap, animal scat, charcoal and beeswax can be found just about anywhere.
 
DOC-CANADA said:
Great post, paleojoe, comments below, notwithstanding.

I've experimented with Pine pitch using different combinations of charcoal and fat, and I never really found it to be a great glue. I'll have to try your method.

Erret Callahan (I know you know who this is) maintains that, "Still, at its best, pine pitch mixtures are but fillers, not glues. Nor can it compare with the Australian spinifax gum, which allows hafting of stone tools without the use of binding." (PT1 - 190)

He goes on to say, "Additives include, in various parts of the world, charcoal powder, hardwood ashes, unfired ceramic clay powder, and dried dung flakes (of grass eaters). I haven't tried them all so can't evaluate their relative merits."

Comments?

Doc
Click to expand...


Hello Doc,

My thoughts take me to how I would define the term 'glue'. The uses for a good glue, are more than just adhesion. I love to be able to use wood glue as filler. The term 'glue' is perhaps too restrictive of a name for what pitch serves to do. It is an 'all-purpose goop,' that serves to fill, seal, as well as attach. This is where pitch shines. But this is how I view a good bushcraft glue. It doesn't function as well as many dedicated glues, but that is the difference with general purpose vs. specialized.
There are many glues sold on the market that I would consider poor, but they reserve the name. Glues have their disadvantages too, hide glue can mold easy. Pitch is fine exposed, no need to bottle like many glues and is something I would rather have on my person than a jar of glue in the bush.

That being said, I do carry hide glue on my person as well. I don't utilize only one method for any hafting or what-not. I use glues in conjunction with pitch and sinew if I want to go old school. I dip cordage in hide glue, attach, coat with more, let dry and seal cordage with pitch.

I believe Birch pitch was used as a glue to haft tools in Europe, as well as fix broken ceramic pots in ancient Europe.

I would love to try some Spinifex gum, it does sound incredible! Would sure help me with what I'm working on now! Although I have read of Australian cultures wrapping in sinew and coating in pitch as well.






More info on pitch:

http://www.primitiveways.com/birch_bark_tar.html

http://www.primitiveways.com/pine_pitch_stick.html
 
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paleojoe said:
Hello Doc,

My thoughts take me to how I would define the term 'glue'. The uses for a good glue, are more than just adhesion. I love to be able to use wood glue as filler. The term 'glue' is perhaps too restrictive of a name for what pitch serves to do. It is an 'all-purpose goop,' that serves to fill, seal, and attach. But this is how I view a good glue. It doesn't function as well as many dedicated glues, but that is the difference with general purpose vs. specialized.
There are many glues sold on the market that I would consider poor, but they reserve the name. Glues have their disadvantages too, hide glue can mold easy, pitch is fine exposed, no need to bottle like many glues and is something I would rather have on my person than a jar of glue in the bush.

That being said, I do carry hide glue on my person as well. I don't utilize only one method for any hafting or what-not. I use glues in conjunction with pitch and sinew. I dip cordage in hide glue, attach, coat with more, let dry and seal cordage with pitch.

I believe Birch pitch was used as a glue to haft tools in Europe, as well as fix broken ceramic pots in ancient Europe...

I would love to try some Spinifex gum, it does sound incredible! Although I have read of Australian cultures wrapping in sinew and coating in pitch as well...

The consistency I made is very hard and very, very gummy when hot.




More info on pitch:

http://www.primitiveways.com/birch_bark_tar.html

http://www.primitiveways.com/pine_pitch_stick.html
Click to expand...

Hey paleojoe, thanks for the reply. I really am going to do more experimentation later on. I have done a little bit of point hafting with pitch and it worked ok.

Re: spinifex, maybe Southern Cross or one of our other Aussie brothers have something to contribute.

And pj, keep up the good work. It's nice to see skills threads. :thumbup:

Doc
 
What's the purpose of the scat, and can you substitute more dry grass instead? No, I don't want to mess with feces of any sort.
 
Hello Wulfshrunting,

The dry herbivore scat is nothing to really worry about when touched. It is essentially ground up grass. Ungulates (deer, sheep, etc.) leave scat in the path of travel in little pebbles that dry fast in the summer, so it is easy to find as I travel via deer trails and such. I don't ever use scat that is so old that it is a moldy powder that disintegrates to the touch.

It serves to add flex to the pitch, and helps with bind, like straw to adobe clay bricks. It also gives more body to the mix.

You only have to beware of respirating the scat powder when grinding, just as you have to beware of respirating the pitch as you make it. Best to do outside.

You can grind up dry grass to serve the same purpose, but it has to be finely ground. Hence the herbivore scat, as the animal does all the work for you.:D

As I mentioned in the original post, there are other substitutes that could serve the same purpose! :thumbup:
 
paleojoe said:
Hello Wulfshrunting,

The dry herbivore scat is nothing to really worry about when touched. It is essentially ground up grass. Ungulates (deer, sheep, etc.) leave scat in the path of travel in little pebbles that dry fast in the summer, so it is easy to find as I travel via deer trails and such. I don't ever use scat that is so old that it is a moldy powder that disintegrates to the touch.

It serves to add flex to the pitch, and helps with bind, like straw to adobe clay bricks. It also gives more body to the mix.

You only have to beware of respirating the scat powder when grinding, just as you have to beware of respirating the pitch as you make it. Best to do outside.

You can grind up dry grass to serve the same purpose, but it has to be finely ground. Hence the herbivore scat, as the animal does all the work for you.:D

As I mentioned in the original post, there are other substitutes that could serve the same purpose! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Hey pj, good call on specifying herbivore scat. I hope everybody is aware of the hazards of Raccoon scat - Baylisascaris procyonis.

Doc
 
Wonder no more!;)
Maybe organize the scat by year first, to determine the best blend?:p
 
Update:

A few of the pieces and types of hafting done with this batch of pitch!

med_1263232717-DSCN2695.JPG
med_1263232913-DSCN2693.JPG

med_1263232815-DSCN2721.JPG
med_1263232843-DSCN2723.JPG

med_1262745965-DSCN2702.JPG

med_1263225755-Timo_Rush_sized.jpg
med_1262746476-DSCN2772.JPG




Thanks for looking! Have fun out there!!!:D


More info:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=704761
 
good to have a new guy on the forums with some serious old school skills.

I harvest pitchballs for fires but I will have to play with this at my acreage this spring.

very interesting my friend!
 
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