Advantages of Knife Steel

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There are yet many myths regarding knife steel. And what could be more important to a knife than the blade? I'm sure there will be some disagreement, as is healthy for any quest toward the truth. But hopefully it will be based on rational argument and not prejudice and other less than objective criteria.

The latest trend in knife steel, and currently the top-end technology, is powdered steel made by 'atomizing' (spraying) molten metal alloy so it hardens in tiny, tiny 'powder' particles, which are then formed and sintered (heated but not completely melted) into the final product.

Sintering prevents carbides from segregating in the molten steel, because once powdered, it is never melted again. This concept gives Powdered Steel a distinct advantage over conventionally made steel in terms of cutting ability once hardened.

But how much does it matter in terms of knife-blade steel? Randomly selected persons 18-y.o. or older were asked to independently examine several high-end knives. Candidates unlikely to have interest were passed over for final inclusion in the study.

The subjects were straight, white, traditional conservative males between 18 and 55 years of age. Marital status, smoking status, height, weight, religion, criminal history, nationality, creed, intelligence level and/or level of education were ignored for the sake of objectivity.

The participants were allowed to make notes, in preparation for a final quiz, which they were told paid off at the end according to each one's final score. Actually, each man was given the option to take the knives he had examined home with him, which was 8 quality pieces; or to receive a $100 Amazon gift card for participating. But to drum up interest they were originally told compensation would be merit based.

None of the 26 subjects made any comment on the type of steel used in the blades they'd examined. However, they all noticed the sharpness and finish of the blades, whether the knives were folding or fixed blade, or switchblade. Although they expended effort examing the blades, none were interested in the specific knife steel used.

This experiment has been repeated numerous times by different organizations, not simply to test interest in knife steel, but all kinds of knife characteristics. For instance, young men were more likely to select the most 'effective' knife by large size and tough-sounding names! Whereas, older men chose as 'effective', knives that are easy to use, comfortable to handle, easy to carry and less likely to cause legal problems!

So, to most of those who use knives like males do, blade steel is not a critical factor for knife likeability!

Below I've priced out 2 common powdered steels, D2 and construction-grade steel.


D2: $0.75/oz.
CPM 10V: $4.12/oz.
S30V: $1.91/oz.
Carbon construction steel: $0.02/oz.

So, S30V is 95x the cost of plain steel, but still only about 2 dollars per ounce. Not a significant portion of the cost of a 8oz folding knife. The blade is maybe 3oz. So, figure 70% waste, that's 5.1oz. = about 10.00 for the material if S30V is used. It's not like gold at $1,700/oz.

The vast majority of cost is in manufacturing, not material. Which brings me to D2 semi-stainless steel. D2 works differently than powdered steel. For that reason it is much more resistant to chemical attack by acid.

It is also just as hard as S30V and S35VN, for equal edge holding ability. Knifemakers, manufacturers and dealers want you to want powdered steel, and to be willing to pay 10x what it costs for not much additional benefit.

Powdered steel was first mass produced in 1970. That's 52 years ago. It was developed within the budgetary constraints of private industry, and in response to greed.

D2 was developed during WWII, 80-some years ago. It had no budgetary constraints but those of the United States Government, which is essentially 'none'! It was produced in response to the threat of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis ruling the world!

The stakes for D2 steel could not have been higher! Americans made all kinds of armaments out of D2! And it won the War for Truth, Justice and The American Way! D2 makes a damn good knife blade, you can bet your liberty on it, because it has already proved itself quite capable!

I have a few knives with D2 blades, and they are fantastic! Between S35VN, D2 and S30V, I really can't tell the difference except D2 is a bit lighter weight and more lustrous than powdered steels.

I don't know about anyone else. But for me, if D2 steel in the hands of America's disciplined and morally straight fighting force--a thing beautiful in God's sight-- preserved the nation I love, and in doing so permitted the free exercise of my Constitutional rights in this generation and many more to come; then I consider it a blessing from Almighty God, good enough for Him, and good enough for my knife!

All the hoopla over expensive steel is just that: a way to extract money from your wallet without giving you value for your dollar! Tell them to sell at a fair price!
 
What the ...what???

Why would people conducting a study of peoples opinions of knife steels care about the test subjects sexual orientation or political views? How would they even know? And what does any of that have to do with knife steels? And if they were "randomly selected", how is it all the test subjects were the same race, gender, sexual orientation and political persuasion? Or for that matter, why would they only select white males for the study? Don't women, and people of other races use knives?

Sounds like a pretty bizarre "study" to me. Do you have any links to it?

I can't take such a "study" seriously. Or your post.

EDIT: Forget I asked about the links to the "studies". I'm really not interested.
 
Not for nothing, my Spyderco in Maxamet came sharper than I thought a knife could ever be. Because it’s Maxamet? Who knows. And I’ve used the hell out of 20CV without ever needing to sharpen, which is nice. But D2 is more than satisfactory for most. Get it how you live
 
The survey should have been by people who use knives in their daily work. Most who I know can tell the difference in the variations in blade steel on knives.


 
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There are yet many myths regarding knife steel. And what could be more important to a knife than the blade? I'm sure there will be some disagreement, as is healthy for any quest toward the truth. But hopefully it will be based on rational argument and not prejudice and other less than objective criteria.

The latest trend in knife steel, and currently the top-end technology, is powdered steel made by 'atomizing' (spraying) molten metal alloy so it hardens in tiny, tiny 'powder' particles, which are then formed and sintered (heated but not completely melted) into the final product.

Sintering prevents carbides from segregating in the molten steel, because once powdered, it is never melted again. This concept gives Powdered Steel a distinct advantage over conventionally made steel in terms of cutting ability once hardened.

But how much does it matter in terms of knife-blade steel? Randomly selected persons 18-y.o. or older were asked to independently examine several high-end knives. Candidates unlikely to have interest were passed over for final inclusion in the study.

The subjects were straight, white, traditional conservative males between 18 and 55 years of age. Marital status, smoking status, height, weight, religion, criminal history, nationality, creed, intelligence level and/or level of education were ignored for the sake of objectivity.

The participants were allowed to make notes, in preparation for a final quiz, which they were told paid off at the end according to each one's final score. Actually, each man was given the option to take the knives he had examined home with him, which was 8 quality pieces; or to receive a $100 Amazon gift card for participating. But to drum up interest they were originally told compensation would be merit based.

None of the 26 subjects made any comment on the type of steel used in the blades they'd examined. However, they all noticed the sharpness and finish of the blades, whether the knives were folding or fixed blade, or switchblade. Although they expended effort examing the blades, none were interested in the specific knife steel used.

This experiment has been repeated numerous times by different organizations, not simply to test interest in knife steel, but all kinds of knife characteristics. For instance, young men were more likely to select the most 'effective' knife by large size and tough-sounding names! Whereas, older men chose as 'effective', knives that are easy to use, comfortable to handle, easy to carry and less likely to cause legal problems!

So, to most of those who use knives like males do, blade steel is not a critical factor for knife likeability!

Below I've priced out 2 common powdered steels, D2 and construction-grade steel.


D2: $0.75/oz.
CPM 10V: $4.12/oz.
S30V: $1.91/oz.
Carbon construction steel: $0.02/oz.

So, S30V is 95x the cost of plain steel, but still only about 2 dollars per ounce. Not a significant portion of the cost of a 8oz folding knife. The blade is maybe 3oz. So, figure 70% waste, that's 5.1oz. = about 10.00 for the material if S30V is used. It's not like gold at $1,700/oz.

The vast majority of cost is in manufacturing, not material. Which brings me to D2 semi-stainless steel. D2 works differently than powdered steel. For that reason it is much more resistant to chemical attack by acid.

It is also just as hard as S30V and S35VN, for equal edge holding ability. Knifemakers, manufacturers and dealers want you to want powdered steel, and to be willing to pay 10x what it costs for not much additional benefit.

Powdered steel was first mass produced in 1970. That's 52 years ago. It was developed within the budgetary constraints of private industry, and in response to greed.

D2 was developed during WWII, 80-some years ago. It had no budgetary constraints but those of the United States Government, which is essentially 'none'! It was produced in response to the threat of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis ruling the world!

The stakes for D2 steel could not have been higher! Americans made all kinds of armaments out of D2! And it won the War for Truth, Justice and The American Way! D2 makes a damn good knife blade, you can bet your liberty on it, because it has already proved itself quite capable!

I have a few knives with D2 blades, and they are fantastic! Between S35VN, D2 and S30V, I really can't tell the difference except D2 is a bit lighter weight and more lustrous than powdered steels.

I don't know about anyone else. But for me, if D2 steel in the hands of America's disciplined and morally straight fighting force--a thing beautiful in God's sight-- preserved the nation I love, and in doing so permitted the free exercise of my Constitutional rights in this generation and many more to come; then I consider it a blessing from Almighty God, good enough for Him, and good enough for my knife!

All the hoopla over expensive steel is just that: a way to extract money from your wallet without giving you value for your dollar! Tell them to sell at a fair price!
The John Birch Society called and they want you to tone it down a little.

Zieg
 
Please moderators, impose a word limit on posts. Any post greater than a paragraph or two is a no go to me. I offer no opinion on the thread starters viewpoints regarding things social, sexual, etc. I do not care.

Thank you for reading this. I have limited my response to two paragraphs for your edification and benefit. ;)
 
The study is rasist and chauvinist. The conclusion is nationalist. Not that I mind but for the knives sake, it's irrelevant.
D series sucks big time. It was very good long time before. I made a method to bring yield strength in steel about 3x higher. M398 with my method has more strength than D2 with standard method.
M398 is stainless. D series is not. I live in a basement and it shows on steel. D's are just a few weeks away from pure carbons.
Edge retention with carbide monsters are way up from D2 and the edge can be sharpened more and thinner for way longer lasting cutability.
For the kicks I'm expanding my method to break carbides. For now it's barely in half. With powders it's irrelevant.
My future with steels are with M398 and S90V. Lamination and/or thickness with resolve other strength related usage.
D2 is only good today. I'm in the senior group when fancy things don't matter. I don't like sharpening nor blade care. It has to cut, split, chop, destroy...
 
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Why would people conducting a study of peoples opinions of knife steels care about the test subjects sexual orientation or political views?
I know it's wrong, but imagine being told liking 1095 meant you're g@y. "I'm sorry, the correct answer is A2..." OMFG I love it. Straight out of an Onion article. The sad fact is this could've just as easily been an Onion article as it could be a legit funded study. Meaning some of our tax dollars paid for the research.
 
in addition to everyone's replies, there is a very wrong statement in there - one which prooves this young kid just doesn't have any experience or knowledge on the science of this subject:

The vast majority of cost is in manufacturing, not material. Which brings me to D2 semi-stainless steel. D2 works differently than powdered steel. For that reason it is much more resistant to chemical attack by acid.

D2 doesn't work differently than powdered steel, they are all steel... if you made a powdered D2 (which is real & produced as cpm-d2 and other names) - you'd see that it in fact does display better all around properties than ingot d2

Your point about acid resistance is completely wrong.. powder vs ingot has no bearing on that aspect... chrome % in solution would likely have the most improvement

steel composition absolutely matters
heat treatment matters even more, in terms of getting a good work blade to last

your 'study' only proves most people are ignorant (which is pretty true on most any subject of science these days)
that should be your main take away :)
 
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