Advantages of Knife Steel

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That's a long post to say carbon steel is great, stainless has its place, and anything more super than 154 is too hard to sharpen and not worth the effort to own.
Maybe you should read it again, between the lines, if you are able to see it.
 
in addition to everyone's replies, there is a very wrong statement in there - one which prooves this young kid just doesn't have any experience or knowledge on the science of this subject:



D2 doesn't work differently than powdered steel, they are all steel... if you made a powdered D2 (which is real & produced as cpm-d2 and other names) - you'd see that it in fact does display better all around properties than ingot d2

Your point about acid resistance is completely wrong.. powder vs ingot has no bearing on that aspect... chrome % in solution would likely have the most improvement

steel composition absolutely matters
heat treatment matters even more, in terms of getting a good work blade to last

your 'study' only proves most people are ignorant (which is pretty true on most any subject of science these days)
that should be your main take away :)
If one buys a knife made of 'D2', he can be sure it isn't the sintered form. D2 is formed by casting or forging. Powdered D2, which is an oxymoron, is formed by sintering. In order to draw a distinction between the two different forms of the alloy, the powdered version is given a different name. Otherwise, no user could tell the difference. D2 in sintered form is 'CPM-D2', so D2 does work differently, because poured steels work differently than sintered steels.

Sintered metals 'are' more susceptible to acid attack, because the bonds are different and there are less of them. That's why sintered alloys can be very hard but still offer good machineability, moreso than poured steel. Which is why designers are cautioned against using powdered steel in such applications. I mean, your free to argue, but don't bring me personally into your ad hominem attack.

When you address my person instead of the message, you are saying to everyone, "I have nothing to say, so I'll just go after the source, and impugn him as my argument. My comment on cost does not indicate the 'composition' of the steel doesn't matter. It is merely to demonstrate that the steel isn't a large part of the cost for any knife that sells for over $50. Check your prejudice at the door, and read the post with an objective mind.

If I am technically incorrrect on some issue, an objective mind will infer what I meant, and try to clarify the issue for anyone else who might be reading it. Whereas a prejudicial mind, seeking to impugn the credibility of the source, will split hairs to no end. Is it not obvious that cooperation is made difficult by such a mindset.

There is absolutely no reason why a knife with a S30V blade should cost $70 more than a similar one with a D2 blade. That is all based on hoopla, or hype.
 
Now I must confess. I made the hyperbole glaringly obvious in my satirical post, so everyone would be able to see what they've been falling for in knife-industry hype. But I guess no one can avoid being offended by the slightest things. The truth is, my post is a glaring example of the knife hype all over the web.

A lot of people fall for it. There is nothing of consequence in the OP, except that people are being ripped off based on the steel a blade is made of, and practically no one has taken the time to investigate the actual cost of the steels used. Even wikipedia states that powdered steel is so costly, when used in knife blades it represents a significant amount of the price.

That was no doubt planted there by someone who wants the public to believe it's true, for nothing but finacial gain. And my semi-religious evaluation of D2 is really no more fantasy-related than what's being pushed down the throats of naive knife purchasers day and night. Even Buck Knives has two knives that differ only in the blade steel and handle material. I ignore the handle material as a factor, because the better handle is on the less expensive knife.

One knife costs $85 (D2) and the other costs $140 (S35VN). So, from countless examples of this, and false information on the web, buyers have a completely mistaken idea of what knife steel is worth. And the hype they're falling for is at least as faith-based as D2 saving the world because of God.

My effort was wasted. I'll remember that. Satire doesn't work on Blade Forums. You guys would probably be offended by Jonathan Swift, who devised a plan to handle all the poor in England. He wrote, "The rich will have to eat the children of the poor." Isn't that offensive? I am so offended. I just can't write any more. I need to find a safe space. And, I'm writing with my phone. That's the other reason I have to stop now. But it's mostly to find a safe space.
 
Not all D2 is created equal. Country of origin for both the knife and steel play a large part.

The difference between a $40 Chinese made knife in d2 and an American made Spyderco in S30V for $150 has many parts.

D2 is made by many manufacturers, is often not true D2, and many manufacturers do not list the hardness or composition.

CPM metals are made by one company, Crucible, and therefore are of a more consistent makeup. You are also paying for American wages. Soame goes for the workers at Spyderco.

I have knives in many steels, including American d2 (I believe though it's a Brous so you never know) and I believe I mentioned it is difficult to sharpen with mediocre edge retention.

For a lot of people though, ease of sharpening doesn't matter. They buy a $30 knife, use it til it's dull, then throw it out and buy another $30 knife. I know quite a few people like that. That is a better deal to them than a $150 knife, a sharpening system, and taking the time to both learn to sharpen and actually sharpen it.

I rotate between folders and touch up at the slightest loss of edge retention.

The studies you mention show no references, and seem arbitrary at best. A better study would be say interview X amount of knife enthusiasts and then the same number of non-enthusiasts but that use knives in their daily lives as a control group. I think you would find that most enthusiasts would prefer the best steel that they can afford, and the control group would mostly not care.

While I won't judge a person for using a low end knife, please don't try to force me into thinking a $30 d2 knife is equal to or superior to a $100+ knife.

To be honest, I find your thread and attitude to be divisive and designed to cause unnecessary conflict and injured feelings. For some people spending $50+ for a knife, let alone multiple, is unfathomable. Yet those same people may have a $1000+ phone or expensive clothes, tv's etc.

Spend money on what you want, and do not judge others on what they buy. For all I know you have $5000 in sex toys and no spare money for knives.

If you feel the need to complain about expensive knives and judge people for using them, you are in the wrong place.

In the meantime, I'll continue admiring my $500 Andrey Biryukov #12 in CPM-S125V.
 
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Just because a few random people on the street didn't care or take notice to steels, does not mean that the advantages present in different steels doesn't exist.

Most common folks wouldn't notice or care about the difference between using Amazon Basic synthetic oil in their vehicles or AMSoil either, but the differences still exist.
 
I'll remember that. Satire doesn't work on Blade Forums.

It works perfectly well here - in fact, some of us have a degree in it. But yours was not satire, it was borderline trolling by intentionally posting crap trying to elicit responses from the members.

And, I'm writing with my phone. That's the other reason I have to stop now.

No. the reason you need to stop is because you are verbose, wrong, not funny and annoying.

Ah, what the hell.....I call TROLL.
 
I have some spare time, so let me try something. Though, I will not go into that random study with no established and clear method. "intelligence level and/or level of education were ignored for the sake of objectivity." is straight up... ignorance.
How did these dudes "examine" the knives? How long did they use it? Which are the work they did on them? What are the knives in question and the expected result in each? Your description of what they did is only about the look.
I have a few knives with D2 blades, and they are fantastic! Between S35VN, D2 and S30V, I really can't tell the difference except D2 is a bit lighter weight and more lustrous than powdered steels.
Same blade shape? Same handle? Same everything but the steels? Or because you buy a lighter knife and confuse it to lighter steel? Because that screams bull:poop:.
All the hoopla over expensive steel is just that: a way to extract money from your wallet without giving you value for your dollar! Tell them to sell at a fair price!
You know what ¨Diminishing return" is? For your level, I will give you an example: When you close a valve, it gets harder and harder to tight. Where the force you used to tight is the money, and the tightness is the quality.

Developing technology takes money. Technology is not just the method, it is also how to do it well with great consistency, that also cost more. D2 like most "common grade", they have a wide variety of acceptable value, here is some difference between the lowest to highest value:
Chrome, 11 to 13, which is near 20% difference.
Molybdenum, a very important for cutlery application, is from 0.7 to 1.2, 70% difference, which is big.
Vanadium, and important carbine former, anywhere from 0.6 to 1.1 max, so nearly double from the lowest to the highest.

With such big difference, D2 performance between lots are rarely the same. Each European country have like 5 different steel standard that can fit into D2 standard. Powder metallurgy gives the steel much tighter tolerance, among other feature like more uniformed mixing and small yet high in volume carbide steel to be made, which hardly achievable with ingot forging due to big carbide therefore more brittle and low strength.

You give too many info, some more specific than other, to be "satire".
 
And the hype they're falling for is at least as faith-based as D2 saving the world because of God.
Ah. I didn't realize that this part of your post was meant to be satirical. Not to get personal, but I based that on some of your other posts on this forum. Perhaps those were also made in jest?
The studies you mention show no references, and seem arbitrary at best. A better study would be say interview X amount of knife enthusiasts and then the same number of non-enthusiasts but that use knives in their daily lives as a control group. I think you would find that most enthusiasts would prefer the best steel that they can afford, and the control group would mostly not care.
That would be a more valid sort of study.
Not to mention: what is the "best" knife steel for a sushi chef, or a woodworker, or a weekend camper, etc. would likely differ.
 
What the ...what???

Why would people conducting a study of peoples opinions of knife steels care about the test subjects sexual orientation or political views? How would they even know? And what does any of that have to do with knife steels? And if they were "randomly selected", how is it all the test subjects were the same race, gender, sexual orientation and political persuasion? Or for that matter, why would they only select white males for the study? Don't women, and people of other races use knives?

Sounds like a pretty bizarre "study" to me. Do you have any links to it?

I can't take such a "study" seriously. Or your post.

EDIT: Forget I asked about the links to the "studies". I'm really not interested.
Are you dumb or just being facetious?
 
It must have been determined by visual examination alone. Or, maybe there were no other kinds of males where it was conducted.
Erhm.... you only THINK it's straight, God fearing, males.
You're in prime "Brokeback" country, son. I'd give your statistics a re-write at 75% straight males.
You and the dozens of men you know... you know?
 
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Erhm.... you only THINK it's straight, God fearing, males.
You're in prime "Brokeback" country, son. I'd give your statistics a re-write at 75% straight males.
You and the dozens of men you know... you know?
This is clearly an unnecessary discussion...
What someone does with their knives behind closed doors is not my concern...
I have a feeling that most folks might agree.
 
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