Advantages of Knife Steel

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awesome14 said:
The latest trend in knife steel, and currently the top-end technology, is powdered steel made by 'atomizing' (spraying) molten metal alloy so it hardens in tiny, tiny 'powder' particles, which are then formed and sintered (heated but not completely melted) into the final product.

Sintering prevents carbides from segregating in the molten steel, because once powdered, it is never melted again. This concept gives Powdered Steel a distinct advantage over conventionally made steel in terms of cutting ability once hardened.
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Sorry, but you blew it right there.

PM steels are hot forged after sintering, otherwise they'd be so brittle you could snap a blade with your fingers (well, almost...). The final product is homogenous and at full density.

Plain sintered metal products are only used in low-stress applications.
 
The OP is the knife equivalent of a flat earther; there is no logic to his "study" and no reasoning with his vapid "evidence."

Best to let him buy and do as he pleases, this is a fire worth letting go out on it's own.
 
justjed said:
For the vast majority of knife users, only two criteria apply:
1- Is it sharp enough to cut what needs cutting?
2- Is it cheap enough to throw away when it gets dull?
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awesome14 said:
There are yet many myths regarding knife steel. And what could be more important to a knife than the blade? I'm sure there will be some disagreement, as is healthy for any quest toward the truth. But hopefully it will be based on rational argument and not prejudice and other less than objective criteria.

The latest trend in knife steel, and currently the top-end technology, is powdered steel made by 'atomizing' (spraying) molten metal alloy so it hardens in tiny, tiny 'powder' particles, which are then formed and sintered (heated but not completely melted) into the final product.

Sintering prevents carbides from segregating in the molten steel, because once powdered, it is never melted again. This concept gives Powdered Steel a distinct advantage over conventionally made steel in terms of cutting ability once hardened.

But how much does it matter in terms of knife-blade steel? Randomly selected persons 18-y.o. or older were asked to independently examine several high-end knives. Candidates unlikely to have interest were passed over for final inclusion in the study.

The subjects were straight, white, traditional conservative males between 18 and 55 years of age. Marital status, smoking status, height, weight, religion, criminal history, nationality, creed, intelligence level and/or level of education were ignored for the sake of objectivity.

The participants were allowed to make notes, in preparation for a final quiz, which they were told paid off at the end according to each one's final score. Actually, each man was given the option to take the knives he had examined home with him, which was 8 quality pieces; or to receive a $100 Amazon gift card for participating. But to drum up interest they were originally told compensation would be merit based.

None of the 26 subjects made any comment on the type of steel used in the blades they'd examined. However, they all noticed the sharpness and finish of the blades, whether the knives were folding or fixed blade, or switchblade. Although they expended effort examing the blades, none were interested in the specific knife steel used.

This experiment has been repeated numerous times by different organizations, not simply to test interest in knife steel, but all kinds of knife characteristics. For instance, young men were more likely to select the most 'effective' knife by large size and tough-sounding names! Whereas, older men chose as 'effective', knives that are easy to use, comfortable to handle, easy to carry and less likely to cause legal problems!

So, to most of those who use knives like males do, blade steel is not a critical factor for knife likeability!

Below I've priced out 2 common powdered steels, D2 and construction-grade steel.


D2: $0.75/oz.
CPM 10V: $4.12/oz.
S30V: $1.91/oz.
Carbon construction steel: $0.02/oz.

So, S30V is 95x the cost of plain steel, but still only about 2 dollars per ounce. Not a significant portion of the cost of a 8oz folding knife. The blade is maybe 3oz. So, figure 70% waste, that's 5.1oz. = about 10.00 for the material if S30V is used. It's not like gold at $1,700/oz.

The vast majority of cost is in manufacturing, not material. Which brings me to D2 semi-stainless steel. D2 works differently than powdered steel. For that reason it is much more resistant to chemical attack by acid.

It is also just as hard as S30V and S35VN, for equal edge holding ability. Knifemakers, manufacturers and dealers want you to want powdered steel, and to be willing to pay 10x what it costs for not much additional benefit.

Powdered steel was first mass produced in 1970. That's 52 years ago. It was developed within the budgetary constraints of private industry, and in response to greed.

D2 was developed during WWII, 80-some years ago. It had no budgetary constraints but those of the United States Government, which is essentially 'none'! It was produced in response to the threat of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis ruling the world!

The stakes for D2 steel could not have been higher! Americans made all kinds of armaments out of D2! And it won the War for Truth, Justice and The American Way! D2 makes a damn good knife blade, you can bet your liberty on it, because it has already proved itself quite capable!

I have a few knives with D2 blades, and they are fantastic! Between S35VN, D2 and S30V, I really can't tell the difference except D2 is a bit lighter weight and more lustrous than powdered steels.

I don't know about anyone else. But for me, if D2 steel in the hands of America's disciplined and morally straight fighting force--a thing beautiful in God's sight-- preserved the nation I love, and in doing so permitted the free exercise of my Constitutional rights in this generation and many more to come; then I consider it a blessing from Almighty God, good enough for Him, and good enough for my knife!

All the hoopla over expensive steel is just that: a way to extract money from your wallet without giving you value for your dollar! Tell them to sell at a fair price!
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I am going to exercise my old man rights to wain philosophical, bear with me. ;)

My question is, "Is there ever a time where good enough is good enough? So you have a knife made of unobtainian, imported from a asteroid, It never dulls, never breaks, it automatically sticks to the hand and it cost a just short of a year's pay; does it serve its normal function any better than 1095 blade with a leather washer grip? Or is it really not at all about practical function?

I think that knife buyers become obsessed with the latest and greatest steel and the newest. strongest new polymer handles and so steel makers and knife makers continue to tweak successful products to produce new knives. It is not about the practical function of the knife, but more akin to allure of new jewelry. (I think I know why)

I believe that I see, and even participate in, the same kind of philosophy in collecting handguns. I have some of the most modern wonder nines made today, because I want them, not that one is far superior to the other. I have a SIG M-17 in my desk drawer beside me, and in terms of functionality or lethality, it is not substantially any better than a Hi Power from 1935. I believe that most of the syndrome is driven by smart marketing. One of the big problems for knife (or gun) sellers is that that the damn things don't wear out quick enough, so they have to keep reinventing them every year to keep sales and profits growing.

Don't get me wrong, I do know that some steels are inheritably better than others; Pakistian proves that. Nor do I see anything wrong with wanting the newest and best of anything, but I do think that it is at least interesting to contemplate why we want the stuff, and to not confuse need and want, or form and function.
 
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Bob Denman said:
Hash,
What the Hell are you talking about?
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Bad early morning joke. Though I wrote that a little before 7 on my end, sorry for lack of sense 😅 (It was supposed to be a play on "discriminatory", with the discrimination being between good and bad knife steels)
I don't always claim to know what I'm writing, when I decide to write pre-coffee.
 
Hashishiin said:
Bad early morning joke. Though I wrote that a little before 7 on my end, sorry for lack of sense 😅 (It was supposed to be a play on "discriminatory", with the discrimination being between good and bad knife steels)
I don't always claim to know what I'm writing, when I decide to write pre-coffee.
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I apologize. I'm just off my game today
Planning a funeral can do that to you...
 
Bob Denman Bob Denman No worries at all my friend, and my heart goes out to you, as well as I am sure the collective hearts of BF, no matter what funeral it is it is a hard thing I know, but here's praying it is not the worst-case mentioned above.
 
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